[keema]

ASSALAM ALAIKUM BORTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE UK

PLEASE DO YOUR DUTY THIS SATURDAY AND STAND UP TO OUR USELESS CORRUPT "MUSLIM" LEADERS.

AND HERE'S WHY...FOR MORE CHECK: www.**********.com

• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to declare open war on Islam by siding with America’s war on terror
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to permit American forces to use Pakistani soil to wage a brutal crusade against the Muslims of Afghanistan
  
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to surrender Pakistan’s national security to the Americans. He handed over Pakistan’s air space, air bases, water ways and intelligence to the American crusaders
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to compromise Pakistan’s internal security by permitting the CIA and the FBI to conduct vicious operations against the Muslims of Pakistan
  
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader who kidnapped numerous Pakistani citizens and handed them over to American agencies to torture and interrogate
  
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to surrender Pakistan’s strategic economic assets to foreigners. The wholesale privatisation of the oil, gas and banking sectors has strengthened the control of foreigners over Pakistan’s economy
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to abandon the Kashmiri Muslims. He terminated the resistance and then withdrew Pakistan’s support to the Muslims of Kashmir
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to compromise Pakistan’s nuclear assets. He humiliated Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan and opened up Pakistan’s nuclear programme to the Americans
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to use the Pakistani army to slaughter its own people in the northern areas (tribal belt)
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to instutionalise the role of the army in Pakistani politics
  
• Musharraf is the first Pakistani leader to sacrifice all of Pakistan’s strategic resources to get an American President elected. The operations in Wana to stabilise Afghanistan, the timely arrest of Al Qaeda operatives and the preparations to send Pakistani troops to Iraq are part of Musharraf’s efforts to get Bush re-elected for a second term

O Muslims! The time has come to make Musharraf the last in the long line of treacherous rulers who sacrificed Pakistan’s national interests to safeguard American interests

*******************************************
Date: 2004.10.02
YaNabi Moderator: Qadri Jilani
Moderator comments: The link to the website has been omitted as it belongs to HT as the brothers pointed out and Yanabi.com will not display such websites. The last paragraph has also been deleted as it is not in line with the teachings of Ahlus-Sunnah scholars and is further promotion of such groups and their ideology. I hope you don’t mind and do understand the reason for edition.
********************************************

[suf19]

Salam Alikum Brother, The website you pointed out is run by hizb ut tahrir, and we all know that they are a much bigger fitna than musharraf. only for the love of Allah Ali

[muslim786]

Yes bro, HTs have done a lot of damage for the image of Islam, and brainwashing many people with their literature. Most muslims wheter wahabi, shia and of course sunni do not like these people at all.

[Qadri-Jilani]

I agree with the content of the post and it did not seem like the HT style as they just call everyone kafir and mushriks for taking part in any sort of vote or participation in any govt worldwide. When such posts are posted it should be written that they are from wahabis such as ht but they posted it for the benefit of users.

[keema]

assalam alaikum

i am shocked and very saddened by what i have just read. Do any of you actually know or have discussed with brothers from the Hizb because i have and have found them sincere and knowledgeable in the deen.

That is not my point though. This March is against Musharraf - who is killing our muslim brotehrs for the sake of being friendly with the Americans. If you feel that is ok then you need to rethink your Islam and what it actually means to you. If however, like me and countless others, you believe he is nothing but another dog to the American masters then YOU SHOULD MARCH ON THE DAY AGAINST HIM.

Dont think ity has no effect, it does. I know for a fact the London branches of the Pakistani political parties will be there because they know that Musharraf listens to what is being said against him and because he knows he is wrong.

Please rethink your decision. What is better for you than upholding the deen?

Wasalaam
Shaban

[Saiqat-ur-Rada]

Its a Sunni Website and all brothers and sisters here are Sunni Muslims

You have written

Do any of you actually know or have discussed with brothers from the Hizb because i have and have found them sincere and knowledgeable in the deen.

Whats their AQEEDA??????

We cannt support ANY 1 just in the opposition of Bush and Musharraf.

Because WAHABIS / JAMATIS / DEOBANDIS are strong opposition of Musharraf at the moment. So Sunnis cannt support them just against Musharraf  (although We know Musharraf policies are NOT very good for Muslims)

Regards,
Ahsan

h e Najdi Ka Sar Kaat ke Rakh dia
Khanjar e Alahazrat pe Laakho Salam

[keema]

salaams brother Mohammed Razavi

You ask what their Aqeeda is. That is a very strange thing to ask. Do u ask this of every Muslim you meet? Are u a scholar that u can be definite on all points of Aqeedah?

Let me tell u what i know. They are sunnis. They believe in Allah(swt), his Rasool(pbuh) as the messenger and final prophet of Allah(swt), the angels, the Quran as the Word of Allah(swt). What else do u want? How does ur aqeedah differ from this? How do u know ur Aqeedah is perfect??

wasalaams
I intend to cause no offence. I merely find ur point interesting.
shaban

[Abu-Usama]

Salam,

  i think its quite despicable that some people are willing to march under the banner of the kuffar, like the stop the war coalition, and work alongside them for the common good, and yet they will not work alongside those who say "La ilaha ilAllah Muhammadur RasoolAllah!" for the common aims and objectives.

In regards to HT, the truth is that many of them are sincere and are not indoctrinated by the corrupt beliefs of some of their scholars, such as their stance on the punishment of the grave and other major things.  Therefore, you take each individual on their own merit, and not as a group.

[Qadri-Jilani]

People are perhaps getting mixed up who ht really are - their beliefs are the same as the wahabis and have just made up a few more things. Without getting into the details of what ht believe for now, this concept of comparing: an open non-muslim who does not work against Islam or one who claims to be a muslim but says things which are of kufr or even things which a kafir wont say (resulting in working against Islam):

Our stance is clear! we will not side with anyone who disrespects The Holy Prophet (sawaws) or the deen in anyway at all, whether that person calims to be a muslim or a non-muslim. So if there were kafir who directly cause harm to Islam or insult Allah or his Beloved Messenger than no i would not march under such a banner. the same applies if a Muslim marches for what may seem to be a just cause but is filled with filthy aqaid in regards to Islam - in fact this is worse because he claims to be muslim. Abu Usama would you march with shia for the same cause?

What one must understand is that it is the position of Ahlus-Sunnah that just by calling oneslef muslim does not mean that a person is free to hold any aqaid and still call himself/herself muslim, there are certain wahabis who are kafir and also certain shia who are kafir as well as other groups (those wahabi/shia which have kufr aqaid); read Ala Hazrat's (RA) work on how to classify modern day bad sects and which aqaid pertain to kufr. So i wont be sure wether i am marching with muslims or kafir anyway.

[Saiqat-ur-Rada]

Mr shaban siddik

You told that they are SUNNI MUSLIMS. But Wahabis / Deobandis /Ahl e Khabees also claim that they are Sunni Muslim ( but they are not)

You remember Abdullah Bin Ubai ( Leader of Munaafiqeen) also claimed that he is Muslim.........


Regards,

Ahsan

[faridexpress]

salaaam brothers and sisters please explain why musharraf is wrong. tell me one thing was america right to invade iraq? the answer you must be thinking is no. then i ask you why is musharaf wrong. he is not licking bushes *** but is buying time for his country. how he is buying time is like this: when america invaded afganistan bush said you r either with us or against us in the war of terror. just imagine musharaaf said with got nothing to do with this war do you know what would have happened. india had made3 it clear that they r with america and if pakistan said no to bush then idia would have started a war with pakistan dont you get this simple logic in your head. i think that musharaaf is doing the right thing to save our country and his country getting destroyed. and those mullahs who r saying musharaaf is this and that they r just crying because they only want a seat to get into the government and try to loot as much rupees as they can. nothing else.

[madam_x14]

i thought musharraf had done lot for pakistan. isn't it unfair to simply launch an attack against him? surely it's about politics and not islam? if musharraf hadn't sided with america, as the above post mentions he would have also been classfied as being with the terrorists. i don't agree he should have allowed america control in pakistan, but at the end of the day his own people would have been at risk. all i'm sayin is that i'm sick and tired of everyone arguin, surely as muslims we're meant to be trying to keep the peace and not stir more hatred?!?

[keema]

assalamu ala manitaba al Huda I have removed this post's contents because it contained nothing but cheap HT slogans such as 'nationalism is haram' and 'Pakistan or Islam--your choice'. Now just to make it clear we Sunnis are NOT supporters of Musharraf and his pro-American policies and yet at the same time we don't agree with condemning him completely or making takfir of him. He is a fan of Ataturk who all Sunni ulama agreed was a kafir but that alone doesn't mean he holds the same aqidah as Ataturk. Actions are NOT, repeat NOt, in themselves enough to take one out of Islam UNLESS one ALSO believes the action to be permissible in Islam. Thus a drunkard is still a Muslim but a person who believes it is not haram to drink but doesn't actually drink is a kafir as he has gone against the nass of the Qur'an and hadith. Of course a person who drinks is a big sinner--fasiq and faajir. any Pakistani leader would have done the same as Musharraf--and as for HT they are deviants only interested in politics. It is a photocopy of Wahabiyyat with a few added slogans about politics thrown in. No doubt many of the poor uni students who are tricked by the HT elders are innocent but that alone doesn't mean we don't call a spade a spade. A deviant is a deviant and HT ARE deviants. We certainly do NOT espouse the extremist politics of HT and al Muhajiroun and other Wahabi-type groups at all. The way of Ahlus Sunnah is through tasawwuf and love and not via marxist-type political movements.

********************************* Moderated and edited by Asif J.******* ********************************

[Miss-Qadri]

salam o laikum
ur rite siddik bro
but thrz one point u shld get- if he didnt do it then the place wld have gone under AMERICA'S TERRORIST CLEARING PLAN -simply they wld have taken the place n thru it they wld have taken the whole of pakistan (even being an atomic power we cldnt b thr match n the other end we have india n thrz no need to tel abt thr relationship with us, the pakistanis)
so u just go the other way round -musharaf wld allow the americans to come in n then as u talk abt afghanis n iraqis then u wil start talking abt pakis
i m not trying to defend musharaf here the r a lot of things he does to which , ofcousre , a muslim wont agree but just give a neutral view at this point
salam o laikum

[SlaveOfAllah]

Aslam u Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

I agree with both viewpoints yes Musharaf is not a good leader especially him supporting the American snakes and supporting in killing our brothers within Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq..but brothers which of our Islamic countries leaders are decent?? I dont know even if we can call these countries Islamic.  We should as MUSLIMS..who read "La ilaha ilAllah Muhammadur RasoolAllah!" all should unite under the banner of Islam to march..not just against our corrupt rulers but also against the terrorism that is being committed around the world in the name of Islam..and against the non-muslim governments such as USofSnakes, Britain, Israel etc.  I believe inshalla that if we as Muslims who are living in Britain came together and marched in peace in either all of the big Cities or London would give a message to the non-muslims that this is what Islam actually teaches us..Love, Peace...We came together when the Satan wrote a book..remember?? so why cannot we get together for ISLAM so the world media which normally represents Islam in a very negative way..can be used for our cause which is to pass the message of this beautiful way of life (ISLAM) to the non-muslims.

Brothers the only way is to follow our beloved Prophet Muhammed (SAW) way..and try uniting the Umma into one cause which is Islam..not for Pakistan or any other country but for ISLAM!!  brothers and sisters we have strayed from our Deen that is why there is such corruption in the world today..because we are not united..Allah subhan a talla cleared stated in the Quran (I cannot remember the sura) If you muslims are not united there will be widespread corruption/oppression in the world...which exactly what is happening in the world today.

By the way if the non-muslim sees a wahabi cult member and all other deviant cults he is not going to say your a wahabi, he is going to say you Muslim or you Islamic whatever..so please brothers lets stop our Judgement of others as we do not have that authority.  I know many Wahabi muslims and they cannot be just tarnished with the same brush..some of these deviant sects to me come before the non-muslims just because they read "La ilaha ilAllah Muhammadur RasoolAllah!" and they abide by the fillars of Islam let Allah subhan a talla judge their hearts and faith.


Allah hafiz.


Please Allah help us muslims and all the muslims around the world with the waseela of your and our beloved Prophet Muhammed (SAW).

[Saiqat-ur-Rada]

So brother Nasar,

We should just wait wait for DAY OF JUDGEMENT so that Allah will make decisions about Wahabis and till then we should UNITE with WAHABIS??????????/

And u told that Non Muslims think that Wahabis are Muslims as well, So mate Those Britishers are the main Culprit of initiation of Wahabism.

Any Way true Sunni Muslims will never stand with any BAD AQEEDA (in ne issue). And as far as Musharaf is concerned (whether he is bad or good ) WE CANNT UNITE WITH WAHABIS .......

THATS IT?????????? 

I think now this discussion should be CLOSE.

Regards,
Ahsan

SHEIKH E NAJDI KA SAR KAAT KE RAKH DIA
KHANJAR E ALAHAZRAT PE LAAKHO SALAM

[SlaveOfAllah]

Aslam brother Muhammad Ahsan Jamil Quadri Razavi,


"We should just wait wait for DAY OF JUDGEMENT so that Allah will make decisions about Wahabis and till then we should UNITE with WAHABIS??????????/"

Who said about uniting with the Wahabies all the time..if its for  Justice, peace..promoting Islam in a positive way etc to the non-muslims then why not??

"And u told that Non Muslims think that Wahabis are Muslims as well, So mate Those Britishers are the main Culprit of initiation of Wahabism."

Are non-muslims only British?? dont be so narrow minded.

"Any Way true Sunni Muslims will never stand with any BAD AQEEDA (in ne issue). And as far as Musharaf is concerned (whether he is bad or good ) WE CANNT UNITE WITH WAHABIS ......."

You have a got a very short memory or your not aware of when the TRUE sunni muslims marched together against the SATAN's book.  Did our Ulema go to each muslim in that march and say your a bad aqeeda dont join us??? 

Of course brother in all other matters I would say no way will we unite with the bad aqeeda but when coming against the non-muslims and promoting ISLAM in a postive way then I say unite.

Allah Hafiz.

ps Lets leave the discussion decisions to the moderators.

[AliAhmed]

I agree sis but joining America, for the purpose of not being called a terrorist makes no sense....

look at the Chinese, America does not brand them terrorists but both of these peoples do not get along quite frankly on politics and defence, however,

China never sides with America so that it would not be called a terrorist state, you dont have to side with that world police state (America)

you can talk with it as forming an agreement of peace, but siding is a totally different issue,

America gives Israel 2 billion dollars aid every year,

the bull dozers in Ghaza are all American in origin, America is justifying the killing of our innocent Sunni Muslim brothers and sisters in Iraqi cities just to catch or kill the so called insurgents (who are the local people themselves)

huge massacres have occured in Tal Afar, Fallujah, Samraa and now south of Baghdad (Yusufiyyah, Mahmudiyyah and Latifiyyah) all of which are sunni cities from populations of 100,000 to 700,000

this is murder on a mass scale, Musharraf I think does read the news and he does call himself a Muslim, so what message does siding with America give in contrast to protesting with America to stop this murder?

[Miss-Qadri]

i agree thrz no sense siding america but he is not the ONLY muslim leader siding them then why  just is he criticized?
n on the part of china's comparison with pakistan - we are no match to china, they r a big country n moreover they r a developed country
look at the geography of pakistan!
we r a small country when compared  to america+india
after we have allowed bases to US the afghanistan has also turned against us ( keeping thr govt. aside)
i feel very much grieved myself for whatever was done in wana but i think making the whole of pakistan wana is not an apropriate decision
wassalam

[Saiqat-ur-Rada]

Salam,

Brother Nasar Ahmed, Basically Since Day 1 Islam faced only 2 types of Enemies 1) Open Enemy i.e Kuffar and Mushrikin 2) Hidden Enemy i.e Munafiqin. (nowadays all Bad Aqeeda)

Ok, just tell me 1 thing Why did Rasool Allah (Peace Be upon him) told Sahaba Kiram to destroy and demolish Masjid e Zarar? Why Rasool Allah (SAW) did not think that " We sould UNITE with them in a positive way to PROMOTE ISLAM against NON MUSLIMS (i.e KUFFAR)?????? Why did he opened another front ? 

And Why did Hazrat Siddiq e Akbar RA sent troops against Kharijis , even though Muslims were in critical situation at that time again Non Muslims ( Rome and Persia )? Why he did not UNITE with them against NON MUSLIMS

Any way, I have read your point of view, but my and loads of others have point of  view that Muslims cannt Unite with 1 ENEMY against other and In this case 1st one is more dangerous and lethal.

Note:
And this is my final message on this sub topic.....................

Ok now as far as Musharraf is concerned You both people are absolutely RIGHT. Obviously Musharraf is not Mr Perfect and any way he is extremely LIBERAL person which is obviously not acceptable. But I think  sis ume habiba gillani's point is acceptable.

But regardless of that there are few situations like We say in Urdu " HALAQ KA KAANTA" which u cannt swallow and cannt Take it out.

So In case of this situation Musharraf could not HAPPILY go in either direction. Even whole nation is really UNHAPPY but if we wud go other way it wud be more painfull for us and example of China is not very suitable here.
First of all they r not muslim, because it wud be ne muslim country america and israel wud never allow them 2 grow like that. Even Iran did not oppose that thing OPENLY. And Instead of Musharraf the main culprits are all of those ARAB rulers including Rulers of Saudia (MAIN CULPRIT), Jordan, UAE, Egypt e.t.c
They are rich country as compared to Pakistan, they could stand but they r PUPPETS.

Thanx,

Regards,
Ahsan