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The Iman of Abu Talib

Posted 04 January 2006 - 02:55 PM (#1) User is offline   qadri78692 

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Assalamu alaykum
I just happened to see the titel of a speech by Maulana Zahid Husain shah "eman-e-abu talib (ra)"!!!. but i was astonished to find out that himself being the student of Hudur Sayyidi Muhaddith-e-A'zam-e-Pakistan, Hadrat 'Allama Sardar Ahmed Khan Saheb La'ilpuri has gone against the mawqif (position) of our pious predecessors (salaf).

the mawqif of our great scholars amongst them the Great Reviver of Islam, Sayyidi Murshidi Hudur Imam Ahmed Raza Khan al-Qadri al-Hanafi is that Abu Talib passed away as a disbeliever...this is what has been derived from the tafasir, and also the ahadith which are graded as sahih (authentic) and hasan.

our great Imam has written an excellent risalah - treatise on this topic and alhamdulillah a person who reads it does not need further proof....as is the same with any risalah or fatwa written by the great Imam Ahmed Raza Khan RadiAllahu 'anhu.

Insha'Allah the dala'il shall be posted a.s.a.p.

May Allah give us all the tawfiq to remain steadfast on the Straight Path...ameen
wa ma tawfiqi illa billah 'alaihi tawakkaltu wa ilayhi uneeb
Darde Dil Kar Mujhe Ata Ya Rab

De Mere Dard Di Dawa Ya Rab!
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Posted 04 January 2006 - 03:03 PM (#2) User is offline   Rizwan-Aziz 

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Moulana Hussain i have been thinking exactly what you have been thinking, however i have asked some other brothers and they have a different opinion. i respect both answers... just a little confused now, so if you could shed more light on this please, i would like to know more
Do not ask the Lord to guide ur footsteps If you are not willing to move ur feet
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Posted 04 January 2006 - 03:12 PM (#3) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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Dear Brother,

I'm afraid you are mistaken in this matter.

Syed Zahid Hussain Shah Sahab has not going against the position of our pious predecessors rather he has taken the approach of one group of scholars.

This matter is disputed amongst the scholars of the Ahl-e-Sunnat and some of our great scholars have taken the position that they died as a Momin while others have narrated both arguments and remained silent at the conclusion.

There is an equal number of narrations proving the Iman of Hazrat Abu Talib as well as there as disproving it.

I am well aware that Ala Hazrat (RA) is of the other position and we respect this stance too.

Before you embark to discuss this topic, let me remind you of the implications:

1. Our Holy Prophet shed tears over the death of Hazrat Abu Talib and implored them to say that they believe so that they may be their witness.

You sound very passionate about proving their unbelief. Will this not hurt the Holy Prophet ?

Ala Hazrat (RA) and other scholars who have taken this position have done so with great adab and respect.


2. Secondly and most importantly, when the other side of the argument will be presented, we will have a great number of our great respect scholars of the past, Muhadiseen, Mufasireen, Auliya Allah affirming to their Iman. What will be our achievement?

Having split up and posed Ahl-e-Sunnat scholars against each other with no benefit except for our enemies, the astray sects?

Therefore, I suggest to approach this topic with utmost care. And why should we as ordinary people and before ordinary people discuss this topic anyway? Will Muslims be questioned about this on the Day of Judgement? Will we be cast into Hell or held responsible if you did NOT believe they died as a Disbeliever.

Therefore the best approach is to belief either group of our sunni scholars we agree with but remain silent.

Note to all members: We will not allow posts by random members on this topic. Only writings of scholars of Ahl-e-Sunnat will be allowed in their original form with no additional comments by yourselves.



Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 04 January 2006 - 03:20 PM (#4) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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Do not cause unnecessary rifts amongst Ahl-e-Sunnat over these matters. Approach things to gain knowledge not to prove one position of our groups of scholars over the other.



Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 04 January 2006 - 03:20 PM (#5) User is online   Qadri-Jilani 

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yes and also note that Allama Syed Zahid Hussain Rizwi also has khilafat from Hazoor Mufti-e-Azam Hind Mustafa Raza Khan . However it does not mean that a scholar of great magnitude must follow every single opinion of his teachers, particularly in areas where a difference already exists among Sunni 'Ulama. It is not as though this is a major point of 'aqidah so a difference in such matters is considered baraka and a scholarly difference.

I personally think for the lay person it is better to stay silent and respect the difference as there are ulama on both sides of the argument.

wasalam
Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 01 February 2010 - 04:17 AM (#6) User is offline   Kamrul 

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Asslamualikum,
Pls watch below link in "youtube" ,than you will understand about Iman of Hazrat Abu Talib(as).

Dr. Tahir ul Qadri - a Sunni aalim - delivering a speech on Eeman - Faith - of Hazrat Abu Talib a.s. in Lahore Pakistan.

Eeman e Abu Talib - Dr. Tahir ul Qadri 1 to 10 - Urdu









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eviFcJUAmzE&feature=PlayList&p=A9E574C23185287D&index=6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEJsTg0AQr0&feature=PlayList&p=A9E574C23185287D&index=7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f43wU4rS6Ng&feature=PlayList&p=A9E574C23185287D&index=8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLwKXTJuSUU&feature=PlayList&p=A9E574C23185287D&index=9

Allah Hafez,
"sallu alihe wa alehe wa sallam"

Mohammed Kamrul Hassan


I am suuni muslim
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Posted 11 February 2010 - 09:29 AM (#7) User is offline   Zarb-e-Ali 

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qadri78692 get a life please!
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Posted 12 February 2010 - 06:18 PM (#8) User is offline   sahebju 

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Tamim al-Dari in the Fawa’id with a weak isnad from Ibn `Umar:
The Prophet  said, “On the Day of Judgment I shall intercede for my father and
mother, my uncle Abu Talib, and a [milk-]brother of mine from the Jahiliyya.”


khaksaare rasool (alaihissalam)

mohammed faizul gaffar.shaik

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 09:46 AM (#9) User is offline   Kamrul 

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==================================================================
Assalamu alaykum
I just happened to see the titel of a speech by Maulana Zahid Husain shah "eman-e-abu talib (ra)"!!!. but i was astonished to find out that himself being the student of Hudur Sayyidi Muhaddith-e-A'zam-e-Pakistan, Hadrat 'Allama Sardar Ahmed Khan Saheb La'ilpuri has gone against the mawqif (position) of our pious predecessors (salaf).

the mawqif of our great scholars amongst them the Great Reviver of Islam, Sayyidi Murshidi Hudur Imam Ahmed Raza Khan al-Qadri al-Hanafi is that Abu Talib passed away as a disbeliever...this is what has been derived from the tafasir, and also the ahadith which are graded as sahih (authentic) and hasan.

our great Imam has written an excellent risalah - treatise on this topic and alhamdulillah a person who reads it does not need further proof....as is the same with any risalah or fatwa written by the great Imam Ahmed Raza Khan RadiAllahu 'anhu.

Insha'Allah the dala'il shall be posted a.s.a.p.

May Allah give us all the tawfiq to remain steadfast on the Straight Path...ameen
wa ma tawfiqi illa billah 'alaihi tawakkaltu wa ilayhi uneeb
================================================================


Where you found that Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Berelwi(ra) said about Iman of Hazrat Abu Talib(as) ???????????????????
I am suuni muslim
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Posted 16 February 2010 - 12:41 PM (#10) User is offline   qalam 

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salam

 

interesting how people seem to beleive that alahazrat is the bell and end all of sunnism.

I am not sure if this attitude is deliberately being proliferated by certain groups or whether this is a commonly held misconception.

 

I have noticed that anyone such as myself who doesnt agree with alahazrat on certain issues is deemed a heretic and non sunni. hpw worrying.

 

sajid

Dr AQ- Product of a classcial education , fee paying of course!
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Posted 16 February 2010 - 06:09 PM (#11) User is offline   Fekay 

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Quote

pg064 (16.02.2010)
salam

 

interesting how people seem to beleive that alahazrat is the bell and end all of sunnism.

I am not sure if this attitude is deliberately being proliferated by certain groups or whether this is a commonly held misconception.

 

I have noticed that anyone such as myself who doesnt agree with alahazrat on certain issues is deemed a heretic and non sunni. hpw worrying.

 

sajid

what issues do you disagree on.

.
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Posted 16 February 2010 - 07:36 PM (#12) User is offline   Zarb-e-Haidari 

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Bismillahirahmaaniraheem

No scholar is infallible or Masoom. Apart of the Holy Quran no book is safe from distortion. Moula Ali (as) were proud of their father had their father not been Muslim they would not have proudly presented themselves as the son of Abu Talib (as) before their enemies. The real name of Hazrat Abu Talib (ra) is Imraan !..

A Muslim whose parents are Kafir need never say their name but say I am the child of Islam because respect belongs to the Momineen. The blessed Sahaba (ra) were told to do this.

The privileges we offer the Parents of our Holy Prophet (sawaw) the same should be offered to Hazrat Abu Talib (ra). Hazrat Abu Talib too were son of Hazrat Abu Mutallib (ra) and brother of Hazrat Abdullah (ra). The love and support they showed is beyond doubt. The benefit that came to Islam from the house of Hz Abu Talib (ra) is far more than many families of early Muslims put together. All the way to Karbala Hazrat Abu Talib's blood was shed for Islam.

The best proof that the accusers of kufr can put forward is they quote the Hadith  "that Hz Abu Talib (ra) did not recite the Kalima before death" When we examine this Hadith we find that it does not support Hazrat Abu Talib (ra) kufr, but Iman. As you do not recite the Kalima to dying Kafir but only to a dying Muslim.

Also there are millions of Muslims who are called Abu Talib !. There are roads and villages hospitals schools named after him. Until the wahabi came there was a tomb (mizaar) above Hazrat Abu Talib (ra) grave in Jannat al Mallah Makkah l Muqaramma. Why would Muslims bury and build a Mizaar above the grave of a non Muslim ? Why would they name their sons.

We all know the world is round now Ala Hazrat (ra) did not think so. We all accept photography but Ala Hazrat (ra) thought it as Haraam. Ala Hazrat (ra) also abstained from directly calling Yazeed as a Kafir.. ! Again they placed the blame upon the proofs that they provided Ala Hazrat (ra) own thought could never have accepted the Iman of Yazeed or the Kufr accusation of Hazrat Abu Talib (ra).

All Muslims read Al - Fatiha (sura Fatiha once and surah Ikhlass 3 times with darood shareef in the begining and end) and please remember them in your duas.

 

Old picture of Jannat Al Mallah with Bibi Khatijah's Mizaar in the fore ground and far left in the distance are the tombs of Hz Abu Muttalib (ra) nd Hz Abu Talib (ra).

Grave of Abu Talib 

Latest pictures after the destruction of the Mizaars. The graves are till visited by Muslims as they should.

Jazak Allah Khair - Waslaam

Ali (as) e Imam e manasto manum ghulaam e Ali (as)
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Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:06 AM (#13) User is offline   sahebju 

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nice post brother zarbe haideri
khaksaare rasool (alaihissalam)

mohammed faizul gaffar.shaik

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 11:00 AM (#14) User is offline   qalam 

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[/quote]

what issues do you disagree on.[/quote]

 

Salam

alahazrat is beleived by many to be infallible - i disagree

i beleive he made mistakes and thus we shouldnt be obliged to beleive in all that he says

sajid

Dr AQ- Product of a classcial education , fee paying of course!
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Posted 17 February 2010 - 11:27 AM (#15) User is online   Fatema-the-resplendent 

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Qadri

I recognise and I think the whole forum recognises your loaded enquiry. I think the real issue with you is the rank of Imam Ali AS and one way to try to de elevate him is to question the IMAN of his father. You are not the first to try this trick, and most certainly won't be the last.

I think Ahmed Raza Khan Saheb is not INFALLIBLE and his opinion in certain matters can and should be challenged. I think if you research you'll find that most people have IMAN in IMAN of Abu Talib and I think the Scholars who speak of his faith have a strong reason to.

May Allah put love in your heart for the Ahle bayt. Please don't be offended this is a good dua to give someone.

...And my mercy embraces all things.

(Surah al araf, Quran)
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Posted 18 February 2010 - 04:23 AM (#16) User is offline   Kamrul 

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Who can show us about the opinion of Ala Hazrat Ahmad Raza Khan Berevi(ra) about the subject and did u all listen Dr.Tahirul Qadiri's discussion as I add the link...

Dr. Tahir ul Qadri - a Sunni aalim - delivering a speech on Eeman - Faith - of Hazrat Abu Talib a.s. in Lahore Pakistan.

Eeman e Abu Talib - Dr. Tahir ul Qadri 1 to 10 - Urdu








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eviFcJUAmzE&feature=PlayList&p=A9E574C23185287D&index=6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEJsTg0AQr0&feature=PlayList&p=A9E574C23185287D&index=7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f43wU4rS6Ng&feature=PlayList&p=A9E574C23185287D&index=8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLwKXTJuSUU&feature=PlayList&p=A9E574C23185287D&index=9

Allah Hafez,
"sallu alihe wa alehe wa sallam"

Mohammed Kamrul Hassan
I am suuni muslim
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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:11 PM (#17) User is offline   shez1983 

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One thing that always confuses me is the logic behind people saying He must be a momin as he is related to the Prophet? if that is the case then surely abu lahb also must be a muslim as he is also related?
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 04:34 AM (#18) User is offline   Amin_Riaz 

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Abu Lahab has been condemned by the Holy Quran so there is no doubt he is a kaffir.

It is not so much related the Prophet Peace Be Upon Him that creates the doubts it the fact that the amount of support the gave to Our Holy Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him and to early Islam. And te subsequent actions and love of Our Holy Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him for Hazrat Abu Talib.

It is better to err on the side of Hazrat Abu Talib being a Muslim - Hazrat Abu Talib are a unique case.
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 12:30 PM (#19) User is offline   Fajora_Gungla 

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Wa alaykum assalam:

The position of many of my Shuyukh is that Sayyidina `Abi Talib, radhiyAllahu anhu wa `alayhi salam, is a mu`min as Mawlana Shaykh Nazim
has stated within one of his suhbat. To add, this is the view of Sahib al-`ulum Allama Ata Muhammad al-Bindyalawi as well as
Shaykh Ahmad Zayni Dahlan al-Makki, the author of al-Sawa`iq al-Ilahiyyah as well as our current Shuyukh such as
Sayyidi Shaykh ul-Islam Professor Dr. Muhammad Tahir al-Qadiri

And Allah knows best
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Posted 03 January 2012 - 01:01 PM (#20) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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View Postqadri78692, on 04 January 2006 - 02:55 PM, said:

Assalamu alaykum<BR>I just happened to see the titel of a speech by Maulana Zahid Husain shah "eman-e-abu talib <b>(ra)"!!!</b>. but i was astonished to find out that himself being the student of Hudur Sayyidi Muhaddith-e-A'zam-e-Pakistan, Hadrat 'Allama Sardar Ahmed Khan Saheb La'ilpuri has gone against the mawqif (position) of our pious predecessors (<i>salaf</i>).<BR><BR>the mawqif of our great scholars amongst them the Great Reviver of Islam, Sayyidi Murshidi Hudur Imam Ahmed Raza Khan al-Qadri al-Hanafi is that <b>Abu Talib passed away as a disbeliever...this is what has been derived from the tafasir, and also the ahadith which are graded as sahih (authentic) and <i>hasan</i>.<BR><BR>our great Imam has written an excellent <i>risalah</i> - treatise on this topic and alhamdulillah a person who reads it does not need further proof....as is the same with any risalah or fatwa written by the great Imam Ahmed Raza Khan RadiAllahu 'anhu.<BR><BR>Insha'Allah the dala'il shall be posted a.s.a.p.<BR><BR></b>May Allah give us all the tawfiq to remain steadfast on the Straight Path...ameen<BR>wa ma tawfiqi illa billah 'alaihi tawakkaltu wa ilayhi uneeb


ist we dont need to argue on this matter and the scholers are saying that he died as a momin we have to believe on them and as you saying Imam raza not believe on that or he given proof etc but brother bear in mind what you think after Imam raza all reserch stopped , no other scholers came after or what new reserchers are doing now wasting there time , if new scholers are bringing proof that he died as momin suhan Allah they all right .

hameen esy topic say wesy hi avoid kerna cahiyee hazrat abu talib rz nabi paak kay piary chucha hain or un say mohabat hamara farz hay or koi bhi esa topic nahe start kerna cahiyee jis say hum say ghulti ya gustakhi ho jye . Allah kareem hameen or tofeeq dey kay hum un ki izzat or un say mohabat ko ziada kar sakeen.
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