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Is Intention / Niyat necessary?

Posted 16 September 2005 - 11:29 PM (#1) User is offline   takuk83 

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as salaam u aliakum

surely doing wudu, is showing the intention of praying salah!
surely walking to the mosque is intention of praying salah!
surely standing on the prayer mat, in position to begin salah, is intention of praying salah!
Allah, surely knows what is in our hearts and minds. Allah knows everything. So why do we make intention/niyat?
why do we need to utter the words, be it quietly or in our heads, if it is prayer to allah, then surely allah knows what we intend to do.

if you're going to argue this, please provide authentic hadith(s) and/or state verses from the qu'ran used.

jazakallah
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Posted 17 September 2005 - 12:20 AM (#2) User is offline   Arji 

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Hmm...Quick question though What is the problem with doing a Niyah though? Do you see it as a chore?

I dont think the reason behind intentions were ever to tell Allah subhana wata'alah of what we are about do, else we would be ringing bells like the Hindu's.

I think its more about reminding ourselves of what we are about to do, and so to humble ourselves. Not stand with pride and just pray for the sake of praying. But to humble bow our heads in front of our Supreme Almighty Lord and make Nayk (Clean) intentions of prayer, etc.

Indeed Allah knows All and sees all, he is not in need of our prayers, let alone our intentions. Astagfirullah we as sinners are the ones in great need of them.

Don't ever think that we are praying our 5 prayers, or trying to be good muslims for Allah, yes we do it out of Love for Him insha'Allah, but only becuase we want those good deeds to take us to janah (heaven) insha'Allah.

Our Lord Allah Subhana wata'alah is so merciful that the angel writting our good deeds has been told to write down our good intentions too. Thus we get get double points for making a good intention and carrying it out.

And as for bad, Subhan'Allah the angel doesnt write it down until that intention has been carried out.

Therefore in short although i was unable to provide you with "hadith" on a personal level i think intention is very necessary. It can make all the difference. Between acceptance and rejection. Between janah and jahannum.

Don't forget that we are judged on our intentions. It could be that you wake up in the morning and make the intention of Sadaqah, but for one reason or the other you are not able to carry it out on that day. How do we know that Allah has not commanded the angel to note that intention down, hence rewarding you for it. Is it not better to be on the safe side and spend that 10sec making an intention which to you may go un-noticed bbut may come to rescue in your time of need?
One world, one way of life, one goal, one destiny...Insha'Allah janah
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Posted 17 September 2005 - 12:35 AM (#3) User is offline   Arji 

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Also arising from your question could be others, such as....

If Allah knows whats in our hearts and mind, why do we need to make dua? Why do we put our hands together and raise them in dua, when He could just answer them knowing what we want?

Why do we have to go out and work to earn money to put food on the table, when Allah knows that we are hungry?

Intention is also a method of purification. Like working is a method of earning, and making a dua is a method recieving. Insha'Allah.

I hope in some way this helps Insha'Allah. 


One world, one way of life, one goal, one destiny...Insha'Allah janah
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Posted 17 September 2005 - 01:05 AM (#4) User is offline   Reshmi 

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Well said Sister Arjumand!

I once had a Wahabi say to me that it wasn't necessary to recite the Niyaat  before Salaah!
He also said the same thing about the niyaat you read before wudhu and fasting!
I was gobsmacked at his audacity!!!!!

Fi Amaan Allah

Reshma


100% Aashiq-E-Rasool (SAW)
100% Ahle Sunnah Wa Al Jama'ah

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 11:24 AM (#5) User is offline   takuk83 

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jazakallah,

i wasn't attempting to criticise anyone?

its just a question i had, i thought i'd put it too yanabi members.

i should've also pointed out that i do, do niyat before every salah. as you know my mum's a wahabbi and she's trying to make me think differently. she's my mother, i'm not going to ignore her even if she is a deobandi.
she put it to me yesterday so i thought i'd ask.
thanks for the explanation, i'll continue to do niyat.

ma'salaams

Tahir Ali
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Posted 17 September 2005 - 09:11 PM (#6) User is offline   Arji 

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It's good to know that you will continue doing niyah before salah, as for your mother, it doesn't matter whether she is a deobandi, christian to jew. First and formost she is your mother.

Yes you should pray that she understands your ways, and insha'Allah maybe also recieves some lights from it, but try to avoid it ever being the reason of conflict.

you should insha'Allah be able to find numerous amounts of info on this site with regards to the level of respect and honour we are to give our mothers.

By you just acknowledging what she says, is nothing off your chin. You can by all means listens to what she is saying, but if you don't agree with it then continue with you practices.

On saying that, i would advise that maybe you try to make her see things from your point of view. But would strongly advise against any arguments. It wont benefit either parties.

May Allah protect you and your family and always keep you strong on the sira-tul-mustaqeem Insha'Allah.
One world, one way of life, one goal, one destiny...Insha'Allah janah
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Posted 18 September 2005 - 09:46 PM (#7) User is offline   Abu-Faizan 

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Well said, sister.
Shah e Mardaan, Sher e Yazdan,

Quwat e Parwardigar

Lafatah Illa Ali ya, La saifullah Zulfiqar

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 08:19 AM (#8) User is offline   raghed 

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assalam o alaikum,
brother taahir may ALLAH increase u and us in goodness ameen thum ameen
the question that u posed has two issues to it, one is making niyyaah and the second one is uttering that niyyaah with tongue or just reminding oneself.
now the first one is an obligation according the hadith of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam which means that actions are based on the intentions.(the first hadeeth in saheeh al jaam'ee of imaam alBukhaari rahimahullahu ta'ala).
 alhamdoli ALLAH u explained urself and u know that when u make wudhu, go to masjid, get up for salaah, answer the adhaan and other actions then all of these are intention for salaah.
now the second issue is uttering the niyaah or just reminding urself in heart. so, brother indeed reciting the niyaah as it is done these days is not mentioned in any saheeh hadith of Ma'asoom sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and this is my belief brother that whatever He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam commanded us to do, He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam didnt leave on us do figue out the way to do it but rather He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam also did it for us to show the right way to do it walhamdo li ALLAH for such a Guide sallalahu alaihe wa sallam.
now we are left with affirming the niyaah in the heart then brother this is niyyah which is actually required and u shud have it to have more concentration and  having this niyaah in the heart is the way of Sunnah of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and this niyaah is in the heart of a musallee when he does all the action leading to the prayer to the point of qiyaam before the initial takbeer and this suffices insha ALLAH.
regarding the points of my sister in islam who said y we raise hands in d'ua, then my answer to her is that my Beloved sallalahu alaihe wa sallam did this and He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam also told us to do it so, we do it and same goes for the food, as He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam told us to go out and earn our livings walhamdo li ALLAH. now my humble request to the respected sister wud be to bring a proof from the authentic sunnah of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam where He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam uttered the words of niyyah for salaah or wudu and what those words were and y not people utter those words coz i know He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam only spoke arabic, but the people make niyyaahs in urdu or english as well.
  brothers and sisters the love of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam is in His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam's unconditional ittiba(following). may ALLAH make us the ones who wud be His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam companions in jannah and the people who will drink from His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam hands from haudh alkawthur and never feel thirsty again and may ALLAH honour us with His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam shafa'a on the day of judgement ameen thum ameen
wa assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

Mod: The above person is a wahabi/ahl-e-Hadith/salafi and his give their position. No offence mirza but its important that we highlight this for users.
Sunnah is the sweetest for us and the strangest for ahlulbida'ah
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Posted 20 September 2005 - 12:44 AM (#9) User is offline   Arji 

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Wa'alaykum asalam

"the question that u posed has two issues to it, one is making niyyaah and the second one is uttering that niyyaah with tongue or just reminding oneself.
now the first one is an obligation according the hadith of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam which means that actions are based on the intentions.(the first hadeeth in saheeh al jaam'ee of imaam alBukhaari rahimahullahu ta'ala)."


I think you pretty much answered the question yourself there. You've just said its an obligation and Alhumdulillah have a source as well. Thank you!!

"now we are left with affirming the niyaah in the heart then brother this is niyyah which is actually required and u shud have it to have more concentration and  having this niyaah in the heart is the way of Sunnah of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam"

...
Still with you

"now the second issue is uttering the niyaah or just reminding urself in heart. so, brother indeed reciting the niyaah as it is done these days is not mentioned in any saheeh hadith of Ma'asoom sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and this is my belief brother that whatever He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam commanded us to do, He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam didnt leave on us do figue out the way to do it but rather He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam also did it for us to show the right way to do it walhamdo li ALLAH for such a Guide sallalahu alaihe wa sallam."

Ok brother, but could you specify your two points, as your second one just contradicts your first point and vise versa. Making a niyaah, and uttering a niyah...Whats the difference. The only difference is that you may open your mouth for the second one. So im just trying to follow you here...basically you are saying making a niyaah is ok, as we are judged by our intentions, but as soon as we open our mouths to affirm that intention we are going wrong???Hmmm.

Subhan'Allah truely Allah subhana wata'alah sent us a great example. Yes along with the Qura'n we have our beloved prophet 's sunnah to follow. At any point in our lives when we are in need for guidance we can return to these two pillars of guidance, as we were advised to do so by both our Lord and prophet Muhammed . However i think the key word there is to "return". Yes we strive to follow this everyday and step of our lives, but we have to return and remind ourselves. We as humans were created with our own intellect to help make simple everyday decisions. Theres alot that we do in our everyday life that was not done in the time of the prophet, does that mean you will stop using for example a car.

Your post was in English, the prophet Muhammed didnt command you to speak in english. And if he didnt leave you to figure it out for yourself, why are you going against it? He has showed you the path...He spoke in arabic. So i dont really think that sentence was put forward in the most appropraite way. As you will find your contradicting yourself.


"now my humble request to the respected sister wud be to bring a proof from the authentic sunnah of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam where He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam uttered the words of niyyah for salaah or wudu and what those words were and y not people utter those words coz i know He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam only spoke arabic, but the people make niyyaahs in urdu or english as well."

Evidence will insha'Allah be provided, further to what you had already mentioned previously. As for language...well i dont really think that has any basis here whatsoever, and to be honest is a really poor attempt. Are you trying to say that unless we speak or make dua in arabic it is not Kabool or acknowledged. So our dear brothers and sisters that do not come from an arab background or have little or no knowledge on the arabic language, i guess your saying they have no hope then?

"brothers and sisters the love of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam is in His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam's unconditional ittiba(following). may ALLAH make us the ones who wud be His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam companions in jannah and the people who will drink from His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam hands from haudh alkawthur and never feel thirsty again and may ALLAH honour us with His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam shafa'a on the day of judgement ameen thum ameen"

Most definately Insha'Allah. Sum Ameen




One world, one way of life, one goal, one destiny...Insha'Allah janah
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Posted 20 September 2005 - 06:40 AM (#10) User is offline   raghed 

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assalam o alaikum,
my respected sister in islam Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam said "ad deenu naseeha" meaning that deen is the name of sincerety towards other muslims and He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam also said meaning that a muslim likes for his brother(or sister) what he likes for himself.
now the difference between making a niyyah in the heart and uttering it aloud is the difference between stopping where our Prophet sallalahu alaihe wa sallam stopped and not taking a step ahead of Him sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and in Qura'an ALLAH subhanahu wa ta'ala has commanded us that we shud not raise even our voice in front Him sallalahu alaihe wa sallam or else we lose all our deeds and ALLAH subhanahu wa ta'ala also told us that whatever Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam give us we shud take it and whatever He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam forbids us from doing we shudn't do it. Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam's sunnah is so imp respected sister that when Hishaam ibn Abdulmalik rahimahullah was giving a khutbah of juma'ah and raising his both hands while doing it a Sahabi radhi ALLAHu anhu stood up and said meaning the ALLAH's curse be on these hands, our Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam only used to point like this and then he raised one finger. subhan ALLAH. c the imp of following the sunnah in the eyes of sahaba radhi ALLAHu anhu.
 so, the difference between making the niyyah in heart and uttering it aloud with tongue is that Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam commanded us to make the niyyah but He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam never uttered the niyyah from His sallalahu alaihe wa sallam's tongue. this is the difference and its huge in the eyes of the one who really wants to follow the sunnah of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam. i hope i cleared this confusion.
now the second issue with the words in arabic is that IF there is a daleel that Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam used to utter the niyyah then what were the exact words? i have no problem with people saying the niyyah if they translate those words properly if that is proven that Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam uttered these words coz if He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam then the Sahabi radhi ALLAH anhu who heard this must have told us the words as well. They ridwaanullahi alaihum ajma'een used to do this. so, the issue is not the arabic language sister at all, let me be very clear abt it, its not an issue at all.
regarding using cars or modern technology or me using english language. respected sister, we r discussing the deen and an act of 'ibaadah. now the rule in the shari'ah is that all acts of 'ibaadaah are permissible only if proved permissible by Qura'an or Sunnah and the issues not related to 'ibaadaah like using cars or horses or speaking in different lanuages then they are paremissible until proven haraam or forbidden by Qura'an or Sunnah. so, if Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam wud have forbidden using cars or english language then surely it wud be haraam to do it. i hope this is helpful insha ALLAH
  wa assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
Sunnah is the sweetest for us and the strangest for ahlulbida'ah
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Posted 20 September 2005 - 12:01 PM (#11) User is online   Qadri-Jilani 

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Very strange raghed sahib. you said you have no problem with uttering the niyat if people say the exact words in Arabic. This is a big mistake as the only thing which must be performed in the actual Arabic is Salah and all the scholars say this. As for Niyah, in its meaning it means intention and this what is necessary. you are making the intention on what you are going to read and that you aware of what you are reading, this does not need to be in Arabic. If someone learns it in Arabic then mashAllah good, but is there any point of making intention if you don’t know what your saying? It won’t be intention then but mere imitation. If someone understands what they are saying in the Arabic then yes, but intention is not necessary in Arabic, particularly if you don’t understand it.

Further proof that you are wrong here, the Holy Prophet only did du`a in Arabic, now its not compulsory to do du`a only in Arabic, you can do du`a in any language you understand. So the principle you have used here is wrong. All the wahabi/ahl-e-Hadith do du`a in Urdu/punjabi in Pakistan and whatever other language in the world they speak. secondly, is it then obligatory to do only those du`a the Prophet did and no other du`a apart from that and only do them in Arabic? NOPE! And find any wahabi on the planet who think he does! call this bid`ah then? you may as du`a was not done in Urdu in the of the Prophet and the 100% exact du`as are not done in every instance du`a is done. And for your information no one thinks they can do more or better than the Holy Prophet by reciting extra du`a as you also mentioned, Astaghfirullah!

The fact of the matter it is not necessary for every Muslim to do niyat in Arabic only with exact words mentioned by the Holy Prophet from the reasons you mentioned.

Allah and His Messenger know best.


Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 21 September 2005 - 01:29 AM (#12) User is offline   raghed 

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assalam o alaikum,
barak ALLAH feekum jilaani sahib.
i think i have made clear in my last post that arabic language is not a must and is not an issue. now i put my question straight so that no confusion is left insha ALLAH
IF uttering the niyyah is legislated in sunnah then what were the sunnah wording and where are those ahadith? the issue is that if Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam used to make the niyyah by uttering the words aloud then the sahabah ridhwanullahi alaihem ajma'een wud have heard those words and coveyed them unto ummah. so, my question is that what were those words if there is such a thing? i am not saying AT ALL that it is obligatory to say the niyyah in arabic but rather i am saying that it is not obligatory to "say" the niyyah at all but rather it is obligaotry to only "make" the niyyah not to utter. so, arabic is not an issue here at all insha ALLAH. i am sorry guys if i was confusing. whatever good i said is from ALLAH subhanahu wa ta'ala and whatever is wrong was from shaytaan and me and i seek ALLAH's forgiveness for that ameen thum ameen
Sunnah is the sweetest for us and the strangest for ahlulbida'ah
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Posted 21 September 2005 - 02:05 AM (#13) User is offline   irfanrazakhan 

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Dear Brother Raghead thanks for shareing or endoreseing the opnions of bin baaz, and albani which are not incumbent upon us, WHO STRONGLY OPPOSED NIYAAT FOR NAMAAZ we are Ahle sunnah wal jamaah perhaps you hadnt noticed.. Namaz has twelve fards, seven of which are preconditions, that is, before beginning namaz, these conditions must exist in order for the namaz to be valid. They are called conditions of namaz. They are: Taharat (purification) from hadas (state of being without abdast), taharat from najasat (substances which Islam prescribes as dirty), satr-i awrat (covering private parts), istiqbal-i qibla (facing the qibla), waqt (prescribed time), niyyat (intention), takbir of tahrima (beginning).

Hazrat Abdullah bin Masood  narrates that he heard the Prophet  saying, 'Of all the practices, Salaat is the dearest to me.' One of the Sahabah narrates, “One night I happened to go to the Masjid of the Nabi  I found Rasulullah in Sallallaho Alaihi Wassallam) Salaah. I felt the desire to join him. I made my intention and stood behind him; he was reciting soorah al-baqarah at that time. I thought that he would finish reciting the Quran and go for rukoo at the end of the hundredth ayah but he did not do so. (Abu Dawood, Ibn Majah)

The place of the intention is the heart, such that one has the firm determination and resolve when one is about to start (or before it) such that if asked one could reply without hesitation, "I am praying, such and such..." So it becomes physicaly a part of his resolve As the fuqaha note, it is rare that one's actions can be bereft of this minimal intention. Intentions are the foundation of action.. Hence no intention no action Ibn `Abidin mentions that, linguistically, the intention is for the heart to resolve to do something. Formally, it is to firmly resolve to perform an action and to draw closer to Allàh, when initiating the action.
[Radd al-Muhtar, Sunan al-Wudu, quoting Allama al-Quhustani and from al-Talwih of Imam al-Taftazani] it should be noted, then, that there are three aspects to the intention:

1) the minimum legally valid intention, which is to firmly resolve to perform an action;

2) intention needed for reward, which is to also intend to draw closer to Allàh;

3) the time: it is a condition that the intention be made as one initiated the action, or just before it. Ibn Abidin said: Making one's worship sincerely for Allah alone is obligatory, and showing off in good works (riya'), which is to desire from it other than Allah, is prohibited by scholarly consensus (arabic: ijma`) because of the decisive texts that have been transmitted about this. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) called showing off in good works (riya') the lesser shirk (polytheism). This intention [of drawing closer to Allah] is for achieving reward, not mere validy, for validity related to fulfilling the conditions (shurut) and performing the integrals (arkan), and the intention that relates to validty is to know in one's heart which prayer one is performing. In Mukhtarat al-Nawazil [a fatwa collection] it says,

"As for reward, it is related to the soundness of one's resolve, which is through ikhlas (making one's worship sincerely for Allah alone)." [Radd al-Muhtar, 6: 425-426, Kitab al-Hadhr wa'l Ibaha, Bab al-Bay`, abbreviated.]

Sayyidi Ibn al-Arabi sheikh ul akbar  says in his What the Seeker Needs:

Do everything you do in order to come close to your Lord in your worship and prayers. Think that each deed may be your last act, each prayer your last prostration, that you may not have another chance. If you do this, it will be another motivation for becoming heedful and also for becoming sincere and truthful. Allah does not accept good deeds done unconsciously and insincerely as readily as deeds done in consciousness and sincerity.

Abdullah ibn al-Mubarak said,

"How often it is that a small action is made great by its intention, and a great action is made small by its intention."

Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali mentioned that the great Sufi, Fudayl ibn al-`Iyad explained Allah's words,

'"That He may test which of you is best in action" (Qur'an, 67:2)

by saying,

That is, who is sincere in it and correct in it. And the action that is sincere but incorrect is not accepted. And if it is correct and insincere then it is also not accepted. It is only accepted when it is both sincere and correct. And it is only sincere when it is for the sake of Allah Most High, and correct when it is done according to the sunnah.

Ibn Rajab then said,

"And the proof of what Fudayl said lies in the verse,

Kanz-ul-Eeman
Say you, 'apparently in facial outlook of a man, I am like you, I receive revelation that your God is one God, then who-so-ever hopes to meet his Lord, he should do noble deeds and associate not any one in the worship of his Lord.  (18:110)

[Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali, Jami` al-Ulum wa'l Hikam, Hadith al-Niyya]

Allah Most High is Tayyibun and accepts only the Tayyib. He declares in the Qur'an that He accepts acts of worship only if they are based on:

- purification of the self (qad aflaha man zakkaha)
- soundness of the heart (illa man ata Allaha bi-qalbin salim)
- an humble spirit (wa-innaha lakabiratun illa `alal khashi`in)

Purification of the Intention is the general heading for these. That is why the Imams (eg Bukhari, Shafi`i, Nawawi) always began their books of fiqh with the hadith of intention: "Actions count only according to intention."

An act outwardly considered worship but performed without pure intention is not considered worship, even fighting and dying in defense of Muslims. The Beloved Prophet   explicitly said of one such fighter that he was bound for the fire.

In fact, purification of intention is needed for all five pillars of Islam. Such purification is a fard `ayn and is required of all.

Thus those that claim there is no jihad al-nafs in Islam have imperiled their Islam and might make their shahada, salat, zakat, sawm, hajj, AND jihad worthless. Allah is our refuge from this. Its strange how we so harsh on implementing our zaahiri ibadaah, but the batin ibadaah is forgotton, how ironic!!! i guess its no coincedence that some try to thrust their aqeeda down Muslim throats.

The Quran sharif itself is telling us:
Kanz-ul-Eeman
Say you, 'who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth. Say yourself, ''Allah'. Say you, 'Have you then made supporters beside Allah, who can neither do good or evil even to themselves? Say you; will the blind and the seeing be equaled? Or will the darkness and the light be equaled? "Or have they setup such associates with Allah who have made something as Allah has made, then the making of Him and of theirs looked similar to them'' Say you, 'Allah alone is the Creator of everything and He is the One' Dominant over all.'
Surahe Ar-Ra'd

Kanz-ul-Eeman
Watch over all your prayers and the middle prayer and stand before Allah with devotion.
Surahe Al-Baqarah

It is stated in sahih bukhari that hazrat Khubaid  was the first martyr who established the tradition of saying two rakaats of salaat before being martyred. Once when the holy prophet while saying his praying was getting up after ruku bowing down said "sami Allahu liman hamidah" a companion who was following him during the prayers said "rabana wa lakal hamd" and with this he also uttered the words, "hamdan kaseeran mubarakan fee" When the prayers came to an end the beloved prophet inquired as to who was the the person who had uttered these words, and stated, "i saw more then 30 angels darting forward, each one of them trying to write down the words" It must be noted that this bi'da which the holy prophet approved was within the most important act of worship!! THE FARZ SALAAT!!!!!! 

It is also related dear brother Raghead, about syedina Bilal that the holy prophet said to him: "I heard the sound of your footsteps in heaven what special act do you do? Upon this, Syedina Bilal replied "Every time i do abulation, i perform two rakaah salaah" 

The holy prophet had not ordered him to act thus, but to bring home to other companions the nobility and goodness of this blessed act, the holy prophet put this question to him in the presence of many other companions? you know why?   
         
Syedina Muhammad Jalal al-Din al-Rumi  said in his Mathnawi (6: 4302-3):

Passion makes the old medicine new:
Passion lops off the bough of weariness.
Passion is the elixir that renews:
how can there be weariness when passion is present?
Oh, don't sigh heavily from fatigue:
seek passion, seek passion, seek passion!

May Allah grant us the success to seek Him, and Him alone.


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Posted 21 September 2005 - 04:14 AM (#14) User is offline   raghed 

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assalam o alaikum,
hayyaak ALLAH brother irfaan,
alhamdo li ALLAH brother for affirming what i have been trying to say that indeed niyyah is obligatory and its place is in the heart. this is very we shud stop coz this is the sunnah insha ALLAH.
now the two incidents from the ahadith that u mentioned brother, indeed this is a form of sunnah, which is called taqreeri hadith. a taqreeri hadith is a hadith in which an action is performed in front of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and he either approves it or stays quiet and this is a valid daleel which constitutes a sunnah walhamdo li ALLAH. brother the deen is whatever is in Qura'an  and Sunnah and how the sahabah ridhwanullahi alaihem ajma'een understood it insha ALLAH. now there were actions of sahabah during the time of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam which were done by some sahabah radhi ALLAH anhum ajma'een but Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam didnt approve of it and it became haraam to do those action ever again. like the incident of the three sahabis radhi ALLAH anhum who came to the wives of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and asked them abt the 'ibaadah of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and then when they were told abt those one of them said i will never marry, the other one said i will never stop fasting and one of them said i will not sleep at nights and spend them in 'ibaadah. when Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam came to know of this He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam rejected their actions and said which means that whoever leaves my sunnah is not from me(not on the right way). subhan ALLAH, now we c brother that whatever was meant to be the part of this was made the part of the deen during the time of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and whatever was to be casted out was casted out. He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam didnt leave the duniyah until He sallalahu alaihe wa sallam made us clear the path of jannah and what ever is required of the 'ibaadat to get there. this is my belief brother and this shud be the belief of every muslim insha ALLAH.
as imam dar ul hijrah maalik ibn ans rahimahullah said" stop where the people before u stopped and dont invent new ways coz whatever sufficed wud be sufficient for u"
  isnt the hikmah in these words worth following brother.
now brother my question still stands there if the uttering the niyyah with mouth, the way it is done these days, is legislated then this has to be backed up by sunnah insha ALLAH.
barak ALLAH feek if u provide the sunnah for that or other acceprable daleel insha ALLAH, u will find us eager to follow it insha ALLAH.
wa assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

Sunnah is the sweetest for us and the strangest for ahlulbida'ah
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Posted 21 September 2005 - 04:30 AM (#15) User is offline   irfanrazakhan 

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QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
brother irfaan,alhamdo li ALLAH brother for affirming what i have been trying to say that indeed niyyah is obligatory and its place is in the heart.



QUOTEOriginally posted by: Irfan Raza Khan

The place of the intention is the heart, such that one has the firm determination and resolve when one is about to start (or before it) such that if asked one could reply without hesitation, "I am praying, such and such..." So it becomes physicaly a part of his resolve As the fuqaha note, it is rare that one's actions can be bereft of this minimal intention. Intentions are the foundation of action.. Hence no intention no action Ibn `Abidin mentions that, linguistically, the intention is for the heart to resolve to do something.


QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
now brother my question still stands there if the uttering the niyyah with mouth, the way it is done these days, is legislated then this has to be backed up by sunnah insha ALLAH.barak ALLAH feek if u provide the sunnah for that or other acceprable daleel insha ALLAH, u will find us eager to follow it insha ALLAH.wa assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu


hayyaak ALLAH Brother  Raghead you must show that the beloved said that making niyaat specfically for namaz was impermissable, is their any such hadith that the prophet  decalred it to be haram? or a bidah? Dear brother its nice to see you have changed your tone, since you began MasAllah..   

In turn i will show you hadith sharif in which it is narrated that angels are taken as witnesses upon the proclaimation of niyaat's and recitations..



Barakala feekum

Irfan

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 05:34 AM (#16) User is offline   raghed 

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assalam o alaikum,
subhan ALLAH brother irfan, lemme show u how ur question abt providing a hadith that forbids this action of uttering the niyyah with tongue looks like insha ALLAH?
brother if someone makes three sajidahs in salaah and u stop him and tell him "brother. dont do it this is not sunnah" and he goes like "bring a hadith that says that u shudn't make three sajidahs in salaah", what wud u say?
   the reality is that we do all the actions which are part of the deen only if there is a daleel for it from Qura'an and Sunnah as Saheehah or the understanding of Sahabah radhwanullahi alaihem ajma'een. our answer to a person who makes three sajidaahs in one raka'ah is that it is not permissible coz Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam DIDNT DO IT!
   so, brother in the matter of deen the daleel is required to prove the existence and absence of daleel means that such an action is not legislated. i hope this helps insha ALLAH. so, if u provide daleel that legislates the uttering of niyyah then that is what is required and if there is no daleel then that action shudnt be a part of the deen insha ALLAH.
wa assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
Sunnah is the sweetest for us and the strangest for ahlulbida'ah
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Posted 21 September 2005 - 05:56 AM (#17) User is offline   irfanrazakhan 

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QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
an action is performed in front of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam and he either approves it or stays quiet and this is a valid daleel which constitutes a sunnah walhamdo li ALLAH. brother the deen is whatever is in Qura'an  and Sunnah and how the sahabah ridhwanullahi alaihem ajma'een understood it insha ALLAH. now there were actions of sahabah during the time of Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam which were done by some sahabah radhi ALLAH anhum ajma'een but Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam didnt approve of it and it became haraam to do those action ever again.



QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
assalam o alaikum,subhan ALLAH brother irfan, lemme show u how ur question abt providing a hadith that forbids this action of uttering the niyyah with tongue looks like insha ALLAH?brother if someone makes three sajidahs in salaah and u stop him and tell him "brother. dont do it this is not sunnah" and he goes like "bring a hadith that says that u shudn't make three sajidahs in salaah", what wud u say? '


Hmm thats one of the most bizzarest explainations ive heard to be frank, dear brother raghead, if looking in light of the first quote of yours i have presented above..

Its is also clear that you have accepted niyaah is permissable you have even accepted my explaination, but you are some what finding it hard to accept that those who have never missed their salaah and have had such a resolve and programming in their duty that their niyaah has become such a part of them that it is automatically vestiged upon their tongues. What has three sajdahs could to do with this? which is a bid'a as clear as day is visible.. 

QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
the reality is that we do all the actions which are part of the deen only if there is a daleel for it from Qura'an and Sunnah as Saheehah or the understanding of Sahabah radhwanullahi alaihem ajma'een.


Thats what im asking you present daleel which says it haram or bidaah or any sahabi was prevented, but i think you got confused and started discussing three sajdas?     

Hazrat Adullah Ibn 'Abbas, may Allah be pleased with them, reported: With regard to the words of Allah, Great and Glorious: that when Gabriel brought revelation to him (the Holy Prophet), he moved his tongue and lips (with a view to committing it to memory instantly). This was something hard for him and it was visible (from his face). Then Allah, the Exalted, revealed this

  i.e. Verily it rests with Us that We would preserve it in your heart and (enable you) to recite it. You would recite it when We would recite it and so follow its recitation, and He (Allah) said:
  • i.e. We would make it delivered by your tongue. "So when Gabriel came to him (to the Holy Prophet), he kept silence, and when he went away he recited as Allah had promised him."



QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
so, brother in the matter of deen the daleel is required to prove the existence and absence of daleel means that such an action is not legislated.


The absence of a daleel does not mean a action cannot be legislated, on the basis of other daleel's it is contrary to what you are claiming.. COMMON GROUND: You acept that niyaah must be done, or be their. You accept that its sunnah..
 
What you cant accept is that one whom is in much love with his salaah happens to utter on his tongue the niyaah it becomes a bidaa?
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Posted 21 September 2005 - 06:24 AM (#18) User is offline   raghed 

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assalam o alaikum,
    dear brother there is no issue abt making a niyyah. i explained u that its obligatory to make for an action in the heart and this is common insha ALLAH.
     the difference is between uttering it with tongue like saying " niyyat karta hoon do raka'at fajr wastay ALLAH kay peechay is imaam kay munh mera ka'ba shareef ki tarf".
   now brother the sunnah way was to make niyyah in heart say takbeer and start the prayer. if someone stands there and starts uttering the niyyah before the salaah and make it a part of every salaah then he is missing out the sunnah of just coming for salaah, making the niyyaah in the heart and say takbeer. so, when a new action came the sunnah disappeared!. i hope u understand this.
   now i used the example of three sajidahs as example coz a person making three sajidaahs wont be doing it out of arrogance but rather out of love of ALLAH but this is not acceptable coz Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam didnt do it. so, no matter how much luv u put into it, this action is still not acceptable even though there is no hadith whatsoever that forbids from three sajidahs in one raka'ah!
   now if u put the same thing abt uttering the niyyaah then even though its a small action but from what i c its making me leave the sunnah way of starting the prayer. i wud rather just make the niyaah in the heart, say takbeer and start the prayer.
  i hope u understand what i mean insha ALLAH
wa assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
Sunnah is the sweetest for us and the strangest for ahlulbida'ah
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Posted 21 September 2005 - 06:53 AM (#19) User is offline   irfanrazakhan 

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QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
  the difference is between uttering it with tongue like saying " niyyat karta hoon do raka'at fajr wastay ALLAH kay peechay is imaam kay munh mera ka'ba shareef ki tarf".   


Obviously the niyaat like you have presented is bidaa, and shirk!!! and if you ask me to consider that you are praying behind Allah as the way you have stated it, it can only be the salafi way, as they enjoy anthropormism   

QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
if someone stands there and starts uttering the niyyah before the salaah and make it a part of every salaah then he is missing out the sunnah of just coming for salaah, making the niyyaah in the heart and say takbeer.


So now Niyaah should not be in every salah???  Please do not confuse the niyaah with salaah, niyaah = intention salah = action two different things..

So how can one negate the sunnah of salaah by performing a niyaah that he intends to pray for Allah and carry out this sunnah As without niyaah your salaah would be void!! so? How can you in turn go masajid make niyaah, and miss out the sunnah of coming for salaah? very bizarre?  How can you say that a Muslim going for salaah is missing out the sunnah of just coming for salaah, because he makes niyaat that he intends to pray?  

QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
so, when a new action came the sunnah disappeared!. i hope u understand this.   now i used the example of three sajidahs as example coz a person making three sajidaahs wont be doing it out of arrogance but rather out of love of ALLAH but this is not acceptable coz Nabi sallalahu alaihe wa sallam didnt do it. so, no matter how much luv u put into it, this action is still not acceptable even though there is no hadith whatsoever that forbids from three sajidahs in one raka'ah! 


How can sunnah dissappear? MazaAllah brother hence the four schools of thought, not the la madhabbis... i hope you understand this But this is not part of your salaah and is a BIDAA how can we even be so foolish to accept 3 sajdas to implement the denying of reciting niyaat?!! To show love for Allah their is not better the to to follow the sunnah of the prophet  as he was Allah's most loved, so no matter how much voluntary ibadaah we do we cant equal to it!! Thus your explainaton is still void dear brother and has no relation to do with with NIYAAT NOT THE SALAAT..  niyaah is clear.. and is no comparison to 3 sajdas which are completly nullified and which is also a clear violation of existent legislation.  

QUOTEOriginally posted by: Raghed Mirza
  now if u put the same thing abt uttering the niyyaah then even though its a small action but from what i c its making me leave the sunnah way of starting the prayer.


Again please provide proof that it makes you leave the way of sunnah or illustrious sahabah  
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Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:31 PM (#20) User is offline   Arji 

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Subhan'Allah.
One world, one way of life, one goal, one destiny...Insha'Allah janah
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