[Tahir-Riaz]

Know-the-Ledge, on 21 September 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that the Only defence of Rasoolullah salAllahu alahi wasalam is to practise and uphold his Sunnah in our lives! Not anything else!

I hate to break this to you, but you were a bit more creative when it came to defending Hamzah Yousef.

The underlined assumption behind your maxim is that Muslims are in this mess for not following the pathway defined by The Holy Prophet peace be upon him. I think you are iterating mantra of those who seek to render themselves as useless bricks in a miserable time.

Implementation of Sunnah in your life cannot bring about a change in Bin Laden or those who produce such movies.

It’s not about what you can do as an individual but what we can do collectively as a Muslim community.

[qalam]

salam



I agree with Tahir Riaz on this issue.

Muslims canot be lethargic on this issue a;ways opting for the simpler less active path to nothingness.


Stand up or shut up people.

I know i have made my choice

dr aq

[Mudassar-Rana]

What br KTL says cannot be so unequivocaly discounted. It is a given that we should implement rasool allah a.s sunnah's in our lives. However i dont think that refers to the lowest common denominator i.e trouser lengths or beard size. It ought to be that we implement his ikhlaq, his vision and his wisdom. Ikhlaq being that even when people were out to kill him he forgave them, vision being that even when surrounded by enemies and in danger of being wiped out he told his people of a near future when they would conquer great cities such as istanbul, and wisdom being that when others would have shirked at hudaybiah he signed an agreement that would open the door for the muslim conquest of the whole of arabia.

It is also a given that the ridicule, the caricature and the villification of rasool e kareem s.a.w has been going on for a thousand years. In the past we could threaten them with a militaristic reply, today we could still reply with economic sanctions but we are inflicted with the disease of impotent leaders, visionless and selfish scholars. Hence this noble ummah reactions are sometimes uncontrollable. But those reactions prove one thing that this ummah is one and prove that it is capable of dragging its scholars and leaders to the streets. Witnessing these massive protests across the globe shows that if not forever but for a few hours we forgot we were sunni, we were shia; we are just muslims and like no other people that ever graced this world we love our nabi a.s as much as those who loved him 1400 years ago.

[Tahir-Riaz]

Mudassar-Rana, on 22 September 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

It ought to be that we implement his ikhlaq, his vision and his wisdom. Ikhlaq being that even when people were out to kill him he forgave them, vision being that even when surrounded by enemies and in danger of being wiped out he told his people of a near future when they would conquer great cities such as istanbul, and wisdom being that when others would have shirked at hudaybiah he signed an agreement that would open the door for the muslim conquest of the whole of arabia.

People in the west are not going to connect your good behavior with your religion. I can tell you this with outmost certainty because Good, for them, is not a manifestation religion. In other words,

a “good person” is not translated as follower of a “good religion”. During my stay in UK last year I met a Hindu Dr. The fact that I think highly of him does not mean I have great regards for his religion.

The credit for good behavior and moral values goes to you as an Individual and does not always converge as currency for your religion. The opposite is true for bad behavior. He is evil because he is following an evil religion.

Lastly, people can have great regards for you and still harbor hate for Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
Thus, stop fooling yourselves and others with inadequate formulas. I started this thread because KTL leans towards his way being the only way which in my view is very far from the truth.

[Desert-Sheikh]

Tahir-Riaz, on 23 September 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Lastly, people can have great regards for you and still harbor hate for Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

PS: They don't hate us but Islam.

[nhawan]

I think we should protest against this movie but what is happening in some of the more hyperactive countries such as Pakistan and Lybia is in clear opposition to the sunnah of Rasoolullah(saw). Since when did we start punishing and killing people for the crimes of another? The US embassy staff probably had never heard of the film yet were killed for it. The people in Pakistan died for what? They attacked and looted Banks, Cinemas and even churches. Is that what any true muslim is supposed to do? Did anyone of them think of who they were actually harming?

It has been made clear many times that the Prophet(saw) did not punish or kill anyone for insulting him but quite a few muslims seem intent on doing just that, and worse still, without distinguishing between the innocent and the guilty.

This is exactly what the kuffar did in response to Bin Laden. They punished whole countries for the crimes of a few extremists. Muslims must rise above this way of thinking and not do this same.

[shadi08]

Tahir-Riaz, on 22 September 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Implementation of Sunnah in your life cannot bring about a change in Bin Laden or those who produce such movies.

Same goes for the defense as well, it wont change the way bin ladens or the likes of Rushdie either.

But thats not the point. The point is defend. But why defend, or for me, react to such an blatant insult. And how?

For me, its either of the two reasons:


1- We, as Muslims are obliged, to do so - then is there any guideline for us in Islam stating how to react when such a situation is at hand. I honestly dont know. please add to this one. And if there's not, then I think being part of a protest, filing online petitions, deflecting views, condeming it in between ourrselve, distribute leaflets, make websites/ videos/ write articles, sounds enough.

2- It hurts- and it really really hurts, for all of us. This makes us think how to prevent it and 'do something' about it.

There have always been people not thinking like us for Our Aqaa SAWAS, for eg the army officer who got killed by one of our farmers during the pre-partition era. (can someone quote the incident accurately). And it always hurts. But it has become more vulgar and daring, because they know they can get away with it. Muslims are weak and apart from a temporary acute reaction nothing substantial would be done. They are fearless. The ones who genuinely want to defend should work on this fearlessness, which can only be done, as ktl somewhere else pointed out like many others, is taking legal action. work on things that would make UN and international powers to pass a law to stop this.

About the protests, well Mudassar Bro i doubt it implies anything. i dont know if you have noticed this or not that this time was the only time when none tried to go and kill the perpetrator (or has it been tried, why isnt it reported yet?), depsite the fact that this time we have the biggest marches of all. even at the caricatures we had a punjabi student who died to attmpt to kill the artist. we have deaths this time too, but not of people trying to kill the guy. Muslims in muslim countries are desperate, angry, helpless and depressed. This event just gave them a chance to vent their frustrations. i am not doubting anyones intentions, allah Taa'la forgive me, but thats what it looks like.

Last night i saw at ARY i saw a report of a bunch of youngsters coming out at the streets of Karachi to clean them up after the youm e aashiq e rasul day. they had the paycards comdeming the video but when interviewed all of them unanimously cared about was Pakistan's impression to the outside world. Not one said anything about what was being protested but 'how' it was protested.

Communities are made by individuals, each individual effort is needed to get a community going about anywhere.

[Tahir-Riaz]

nhawan, on 23 September 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Since when did we start punishing and killing people for the crimes of another? The US embassy staff probably had never heard of the film yet were killed for it. The people in Pakistan died for what? They attacked and looted Banks, Cinemas and even churches. Is that what any true muslim is supposed to do? Did anyone of them think of who they were actually harming?

If some individuals want to give up their lives for tearing down a symbol then that is their level of conviction. You and I can disagree with their actions but we can’t dictate it. Muslims have evolved a fantastic ability to mourn about everything that is wrong about the Islamic image. Allow me to ask, what have we done to change it?

Those who don’t vote in a democracy are subjected to the same treatment as those who do, but the latter determines the direction. Those who sacrifice their lives will take precedence over those who remain idle and why shouldn’t they?

[Tahir-Riaz]

shadi08, on 24 September 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

- Same goes for the defense as well; it won’t change the way bin ladens or the likes of Rushdie either.

Reacting correctly might not achieve a lot but it can achieve a lot more than remaining idle.

Abu Sufian conspired to kill The Holy Prophet and today we cherish him as a companion. This transformation took place because someone, namely Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), led a movement of dialog and forgiveness.

"Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way" (Quran 16:125)

Show me a verse or a Hadith which instructs you to remain idle in the given context.

[shadi08]

Tahir-Riaz, on 24 September 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Abu Sufian conspired to kill The Holy Prophet and today we cherish him as a companion. This transformation took place because someone, namely Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), led a movement of dialog and forgiveness.

Reacting correctly might not achieve a lot but it can achieve a lot more than remaining idle.

So its implemeneting Sarkaar's SAWAS Sunnah of dialogue and forgiveness that led to changing people. You're contradicting yourself there Bro Tahir.

And by the way, I dont agree with doing nothing either. But implementing Sunnah is utmost important.

[Tahir-Riaz]

shadi08, on 24 September 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

You're contradicting yourself there Bro Tahir

I am not contradicting my selves, I am pointing out that remaining idle is NOT his Sunnah. So, let’s not cloak our desire to remain idle as implementation of some mystical Sunnah. It may be hard to convince Salman Rush-die, but not harder than forwarding the truth about existence of a God.

shadi08, on 24 September 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

But implementing Sunnah is utmost important.

Of course I am not against implementation of Sunnah, but on an individual level it has unfortunately very little, if any, impact on the given context. In other words, BBC is not going to write positively about Islam if you are nice to your neighbor and pray 5 times day with folded pants.

[Tahir-Riaz]

- We must implement Sharia
- We must implement Khilafah
- We must implement Sunnah
- We must pray for an early appearance of Imam Mahdi

One line solution to every complex problem we face. The fact that we accept them as universal truths for solving ALL problem reflects our ideological taste.

[Mudassar-Rana]

Tahir-Riaz, on 23 September 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

People in the west are not going to connect your good behavior with your religion. I can tell you this with outmost certainty because Good, for them, is not a manifestation religion. In other words,

a “good person” is not translated as follower of a “good religion”. During my stay in UK last year I met a Hindu Dr. The fact that I think highly of him does not mean I have great regards for his religion.

The credit for good behavior and moral values goes to you as an Individual and does not always converge as currency for your religion. The opposite is true for bad behavior. He is evil because he is following an evil religion.

Lastly, people can have great regards for you and still harbor hate for Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
Thus, stop fooling yourselves and others with inadequate formulas. I started this thread because KTL leans towards his way being the only way which in my view is very far from the truth.

Br tahir i didnt say that implementing the prophet a.s sunnah would stop films being produced - i said that it is not optional that we can or cannot implement sunnah hence shouldnt be discounted. I also clarified what i meant by sunnah i.e his vision, his wisdom etc. I also elduded to the militaristic response of sultan abdul hamid II - which shows despite a caliph the west still produced insulting plays/literature etc. Hence my point was to seperate the 2 issues.

Insults against rasool allah a.s are a given - whether we like it or not. However our reactions can change. i.e As a fatherless ummah we can destroy our own property and vent our frustration at our leaders sleeping with the enemy. Or we can remove the cancer and go back to the biggest sunnah and organise our political affairs by returning Political sovereignty to Allah ta'ala - and if we dont then I would view this as the biggest shirk possible and the real reason of why Allah ta'ala permits muslims and islam to be humilliated.

In the light of the current scenario - the response from yanabi and others like the "dont shoot the messenger" campaign by Hamza Tzortis form the correct response. In an era of media manipulation these sort of opportunities should be taken to unsheath the intellectual sword. Indeed the west gained superiority over the muslim world through an intense intellectual campaign and thus to regain it can only be acheived via this method.

[Know-the-Ledge]

Should not any response be dictated by the Sunnah? If it is an encompassing way of life then it must have the answers to any and every imperil faced? Though that's a prissy argument, so I'll furnish an elaboration.

Tahir, there are countless insults and mockeries of The Prophet (salutations upon him) on the internet, in print and media, currently and historically. If you search it in google you'll see a whole trove of them; Dante and even further back poets that were contemporaries of The Prophet (s). This current phlegm of a movie would have been another one of many abominations to have been lost amongst the ether if it was simply neglected, it's a proven way of killing falsehood. The phlegm itself was conceived and made to push a political and not religious agenda; it's an effort to create discord between Christians and muslims in Egypt, the fall-out could swing the US election in-line with the agenda of the movie makers.
Given this bigger picture and also the fact that The Prophet (s) rarely responded towards ignominy from his detractors towards himself, what is this campaign in aide of? Peacefully Protesting is fine if you feel the need to vent frustrations, but removing this video which is so badly made that people aren't even being able to sit through five minutes of will not remove hostility from those that harbour it. We're giving it the oxygen of publicity through our disorientated and incoherent rampages, exactly the reason those with agendas will continue making these insults to watch us burn and destroy ourselves; the most victorious response is that those ordinarily passive about their religion become active and passionate about it, all this other running around is a focus on a an issue which we're giving wing to ourselves.

[A-New-Hope]

The possible revival of Sunnah and individuals increasingly applying the Sunnah as a result of this crisis.

If we accept that ultimately the devil is behind such events, would the people embracing the Sunnah in significant numbers as a response make him think twice about any future repetitions?

Remember the narration of the man who missed Fajr prayer and sobbed.....?