[sunniskeptic]

objective-enquirer, on 09 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Is this about the zionizts as well. Callin muslims the Quranic shayateen. and then you expect others sing your praises and focus upon your arguments??

http://www.youtube.c...=watch_response

Come sidi, it's easy to take 14 second clips from almost any scholar where they are using harsh language against
other Muslims they disagree with especially Najdis...and it was specific not a generalisation either.

I think you don't like this brother!

[Desert-Sheikh]

objective-enquirer, on 09 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Is this about the zionizts as well. Callin muslims the Quranic shayateen. and then you expect others sing your praises and focus upon your arguments??

I really hate to generalise Wahabis-Public and even Imams but their typicaly-Mullah's are actual devils in disguise.

Huey Peda Wahabi To Sheytan Nay Kaha
Lo Aaj Hum Bhi Sahib-e-Aulaad Ho Gey!!

[objective-enquirer]

Quote

I think you don't like this brother!

No! I dont hate him at all. It is just that he has a big mouth and opens it about everyone. It is the intolerance that comes across is what I dislike.

[objective-enquirer]

Quote

Come sidi, it's easy to take 14 second clips from almost any scholar where they are using harsh language against

I think these brothers shouldnt complain because this clip-making of other scholars was started by them. Just go to their website and see the glorification of irfan shah and asrar rashid and then demonising of other scholars with small clips. I guess, it is a pay back time now. We did not make any clips about them though they mad against us...simply, what goes around comes around.

[Mudassar-Rana]

Sunni786Soldier, on 09 June 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

No offence but MR you do seem to pass judgements prior to investigating the matter as was clear from your earliar comments on this thread. You do need to investigate engage your brain and then comment.

Mashallah bro - soldier - first u say no offence and then go about being offensive and rude. Let me be polite and say please respond to a comment when it is addressed to you. If you see my earlier comments it was because of them that the discussion continued otherwise the video had been removed. It was because of my comment that bro hamza bothered to give us insight into the personalities mentioned and why he would like to discuss the 2 main protagonists. To initiate a discussion there are different styles and means though Im sure even now you still dont understand of what i mean and that is why you will always be a soldier and never a general.

Now let me reply in your own style - if you dont understand linguistics the please remain in the barracks because the battlefield isnt for you.

[gujjubond]

Desert-Sheikh, on 09 June 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

To chase Wahabis up to their 'camps' regardless of the consequences.

I've seen all this 20 years ago in Jhang and I'm very disappointed with 'The future's Sunni' and it's not bright at all.

Shaykh Asrar (and supporters), with all due respect, instead of confronting or challenging that Wahabi monster, make a formal complaint against him, with all the evidences to prove him a sectarian terrorist for mocking other peaceful sects and provoking sectarian tensions in Britain. And please, do not send these kids to Wahabi gatherings again, they could get arrested for attacking a Wahabi gathering and shouting 'wahabi-provoking' Sunni chants.

Raza Ka Chaman Salamat Rahe... Ameen

This is the best approach . Tie then into legal consequences . So they think again before opening their mouth.

[objective-enquirer]

hamzaahmad123, on 09 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Ok. Let me call Molvi abdul Qadir Jilani a Tafzili Shia and say it indicates the sad state of affairs in which we are in and the mentality and behavior in some of today's followers.

By the way, its not attacking Molvi Abdul qadir


How on earth can u say that , calling someone a "takfiri barelwi" is not "attacking"

here we go. the true colours are coming out. you started this thread to defend your shaykh against the wahabi name calling yet here we have you hurting us by name calling our shaykh. you guys has have made hundreds of hacked videos of our elders and spread the most heinous propaganda against us and now that, not us, but wahabis are dishing our some of your own medicine and you feel hurt. you cannot play a victim yet do the same to others. You are an idiot for making the derogatory statements above. apologise or i will ban you. simple.

[Desert-Sheikh]

objective-enquirer, on 09 June 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

here we go. the true colours are coming out. you started this thread to defend your shaykh against the wahabi name calling yet here we have you hurting us by name calling our shaykh. you guys has have made hundreds of hacked videos of our elders and spread the most heinous propaganda against us and now that, not us, but wahabis are dishing our some of your own medicine and you feel hurt. you cannot play a victim yet do the same to others. You are an idiot for making the derogatory statements above. apologise or i will ban you. simple.

He just wanted to spew his inner hate and that was his only agenda behind joining this forum. He has been warned before and even his account was temporary suspended but sectarian terrorists never change.

He made that derogatory statement above and it was a totally unprovoked attack. I have repeatedly said that we don't represent any Shaykh or organization, all we want everyone to 'discuss' issues politely and in a respectful manner but all in vain. In a month's time we start again from Zero because, some hate mongers pollute the forums (thanks to Passionate Young Barelvi 'kids'). This bright sunni future is really 'disappointing'.

PS: He should get his facts right before comparing scholars. What this hate monger doesn't know is that his beloved Pir Abdul Qadir Jilani has taught thousands of students like Shaykh Asrar around the world (hope im not offending anyone).

[sunniskeptic]

Editing video clips of scholars and name calling is wrong no matter who does it.
It's a pity an interesting thread has once again descended into pir/shaykh-politics and my-pir-is-better-than-your-pir!

at this rate the future is not bright! What is really disappointing is how youngster's
cannot respect an elder scholar even if they disagree with him. What happened to good manners and tolerance?

[qadrimuslim]

My 2 pence

- Asrar Rashid considers himself a student, not a Shaykh - so these young firebrands need to listen to his advice before declaring him their "Shaykh ul Islam"

- Murtaza Khan delivered a few ridiculous lectures in the Birmingham area so it was expected for someone from Brum to stand up to him

- Murtaza Khan was confronted in Halifax but the situation was completely mishandled by the young Sunnis and Murtaza Khan handled himself very well

- Even if a debate never takes place, the fact is that the desired effect has been reached. The Wahabi propaganda has toned down and an apologetic stance is now observed. Murtaza Khan has been saying things like "they are our brothers" and "saying something is Shirk does not mean I call Barelvis Mushriks"

- The future is not bright. Stop dreaming. Wahabis and deobandis are many in number, they are united and they are active. Sunnis/Sufis/Barelvis are VERY behind. Most our books are still in Urdu, translation is slow, bickering is beyond belief. We have 4 or 5 different bickering groups just in the UK! Groups who are jealous of each other, people who are hungry for leadership, and those who want to cause more divisions when in reality they are just full of Bughz. Shia in the UK have got Sunnis in a real twist. Instead of giving proper answers to them our half-baked TV scholars are giving half-baked answers and pushing people away

- Asrar Rashid has openly mentioned my Shaykh (Sayyidi Mufakkir e Islam) with a lack of respect, so I am not his greatest admirer. Some of his followers have also attacked my Shaykh (like we have seen above). I am sure they are reading this. We have not spewed filth in response because this is not what we are taught by our Shaykh. If Asrar wants Sunnis to stick together and work together he needs to correct this in his followers.

[sunniskeptic]

objective-enquirer, on 09 June 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

here we go. the true colours are coming out. you started this thread to defend your shaykh against the wahabi name calling yet here we have you hurting us by name calling our shaykh. you guys has have made hundreds of hacked videos of our elders and spread the most heinous propaganda against us and now that, not us, but wahabis are dishing our some of your own medicine and you feel hurt. you cannot play a victim yet do the same to others. You are an idiot for making the derogatory statements above. apologise or i will ban you. simple.

yes you're right there OE - the brother should apologise. Shaykh Asrar is not a takfiri terrorist and neither is
Pir Sayyid Abdul Qadir Shah sahib a 'Tafzili'!

Why cannot we Sunnis disagree with adab? You can tell when someone doesn't like someone because they add 'Mowlvi' to the name instead of the well-known title of that person or don't add any titles at all (which is fine if the person is consistent in this but it only happens to scholars of the 'other' side!) -- all of us are guilty of this at various times and its childish. If this is the level of our discourse...

[Desert-Sheikh]

sunniskeptic, on 09 June 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Editing video clips of scholars and name calling is wrong no matter who does it.
It's a pity an interesting thread has once again descended into pir/shaykh-politics and my-pir-is-better-than-your-pir!

at this rate the future is not bright! What is really disappointing is how youngster's
cannot respect an elder scholar even if they disagree with him. What happened to good manners and tolerance?

Mery Bhai, this is the sad state of affairs that brother gujjabond indicated and the initiator of the topic spoiled the entire thread instead of replying to brother gujjabond's post or digesting it.

@KTL,

Habibi, If you have anything new regarding this issue, please feel free to start a new topic.

[sunniskeptic]

qadrimuslim, on 09 June 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

My 2 pence

- Asrar Rashid considers himself a student, not a Shaykh - so these young firebrands need to listen to his advice before declaring him their "Shaykh ul Islam"

- Murtaza Khan delivered a few ridiculous lectures in the Birmingham area so it was expected for someone from Brum to stand up to him

- Murtaza Khan was confronted in Halifax but the situation was completely mishandled by the young Sunnis and Murtaza Khan handled himself very well

- Even if a debate never takes place, the fact is that the desired effect has been reached. The Wahabi propaganda has toned down and an apologetic stance is now observed. Murtaza Khan has been saying things like "they are our brothers" and "saying something is Shirk does not mean I call Barelvis Mushriks"

- The future is not bright. Stop dreaming. Wahabis and deobandis are many in number, they are united and they are active. Sunnis/Sufis/Barelvis are VERY behind. Most our books are still in Urdu, translation is slow, bickering is beyond belief. We have 4 or 5 different bickering groups just in the UK! Groups who are jealous of each other, people who are hungry for leadership, and those who want to cause more divisions when in reality they are just full of Bughz. Shia in the UK have got Sunnis in a real twist. Instead of giving proper answers to them our half-baked TV scholars are giving half-baked answers and pushing people away

- Asrar Rashid has openly mentioned my Shaykh (Sayyidi Mufakkir e Islam) with a lack of respect, so I am not his greatest admirer. Some of his followers have also attacked my Shaykh (like we have seen above). I am sure they are reading this. We have not spewed filth in response because this is not what we are taught by our Shaykh. If Asrar wants Sunnis to stick together and work together he needs to correct this in his followers.

This is a very good post overall but compared to where we were 15 years ago there ARE Sunni/Sufi/Barelvi scholars (home-bred not Pakistani or Indian imports) coming through and though we are well behind in book translations it is better than it was. So, though progress is painfully slow, it is not non-existent.

Honestly, I think that the real danger is not from Salafis but from people leaving religion altogether or becoming 'cultural Muslims' only. This is something our myopic ulema have not considered at all (with the exception of people like AHM etc.)

[qadrimuslim]

I agree with KTL, the Afdaliyyah debate is an academic issue and all responses should be put on paper. No point going around delivering speeches on a topic where 99% of listeners have no clue about the technical terms being used. What was Asrar thinking? If he wants to genuinely discuss verbally then he must first answer the 3 videos on Tafdil. No point lecturing to sheep and calling people mufaddila! I thought higher of him than that!

Nara Tahqeeq - omg - that was a year ago! You can continue licking your wounds and delivering speeches for the validity of H4Y. Frankly, most people have lost interest.

Sayyidi Mufakkir e Islam showed the world how little some people understand our deen. He won the debate and moved on. Your chosen opponent let you and your cause down very badly. Now there are many people who prefer a WIDER understanding of religious opinions than the one you propagate.

I think it's time to move on don't you?

[Mudassar-Rana]

sunniskeptic, on 09 June 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

This is a very good post overall but compared to where we were 15 years ago there ARE Sunni/Sufi/Barelvi scholars (home-bred not Pakistani or Indian imports) coming through and though we are well behind in book translations it is better than it was. So, though progress is painfully slow, it is not non-existent.

Honestly, I think that the real danger is not from Salafis but from people leaving religion altogether or becoming 'cultural Muslims' only. This is something our myopic ulema have not considered at all (with the exception of people like AHM etc.)

Carry on the way you are then what you call "cultural muslims" will be a reality. And to be honest i wouldnt blame them. i have friends who are doctors and solicitors and the only time they will be seen in a mosque is when there dead! Precisely for the reasons we have seen highlighted in this thread.

What we see above is a mirror of what we accuse the wahabi's of. Its those within us who dont have the ability to give their own a little benefit of doubt. They are wearing the salafist clothes without even realising it.

The wahabi's call brelvi's shia. The brelvi's call us shia. This leads to the question - whats wrong with shia's!

All in all a stupid discussion without an ounce based in love for rasool allah s.a.w or respect for the creator. This is pure ego.

I prodded the discussion thinking we may get some insight into whats going on and instead it became a free for all ur pir is this and ur pir is that.

[qadrimuslim]

sunniskeptic, on 09 June 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

This is a very good post overall but compared to where we were 15 years ago there ARE Sunni/Sufi/Barelvi scholars (home-bred not Pakistani or Indian imports) coming through and though we are well behind in book translations it is better than it was. So, though progress is painfully slow, it is not non-existent.

Honestly, I think that the real danger is not from Salafis but from people leaving religion altogether or becoming 'cultural Muslims' only. This is something our myopic ulema have not considered at all (with the exception of people like AHM etc.)

I agree with you my brother, but our opponents are active and they are turning Sunnis into Wahabis at an alarming rate..

Our people just prefer to argue with each other, organise jalsas against elder Shuyukh, setup websites and youtube channels in their bedrooms to damage each other - while at the same time, their house is on fire downstairs.

As for Asrar Rashid and other young Ulama, they should setup a panel strictly for English speaking Graduates of Dars-e-Nizami - there are so many young English speaking scholars who are working in tescos and not heard of. Just think how it would attract new scholars. There is so much to be done, but our people refuse to do it.

[Know-the-Ledge]

I have nothing more to declare but my LAL

[Desert-Sheikh]

Know-the-Ledge, on 09 June 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

I have nothing more to declare but my LAL

Alright brother!

Not aimed at anyone in particular but it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubts. (Mark Twain)

Topic is locked as enough has been said.