[Desert-Sheikh]

Sunan Tirmidhi, Volume 005, Page 305: Ali said that the Prophet took Hasan and Husayn by the hand and said, "Whoever loves me and loves these two and their father and mother will have the same degree as me on the Day of Rising."

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0141: Zirr reported: 'Ali observed: By Him Who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.


I have always been hearing these Ahadith about Hazrat Ali radi Allahu anhu but i've recntly found a similar hadith (in meaning) about Hazrat Muawiyah radi Allahu anhu and I'm curious to know its authenticity.

There's a similar Hadith in favour of Hazrat Muawiyah radi Allahu anhu that whoever loves Muawiyah will go to heaven and whoever has a grudge against him will go to Hell. And the reference is 'Tatheer-al-jannah', and not only Maulana/Pir X and Y but even some top subcontinental Sunni scholars have quotes it in their books on Shan-e-Hazrat Muawiyah radi Allahu anhu.

Has anybody heard about this hadith or the book?

By the way, its also published on the banner of Sipah-Sahaba's webiste

[Mudassar-Rana]

Desert-Sheikh, on 16 May 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Sunan Tirmidhi, Volume 005, Page 305: Ali said that the Prophet took Hasan and Husayn by the hand and said, "Whoever loves me and loves these two and their father and mother will have the same degree as me on the Day of Rising."

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0141: Zirr reported: 'Ali observed: By Him Who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.


I have always been hearing these Ahadith about Hazrat Ali radi Allahu anhu but i've recntly found a similar hadith (in meaning) about Hazrat Muawiyah radi Allahu anhu and I'm curious to know its authenticity.

There's a similar Hadith in favour of Hazrat Muawiyah radi Allahu anhu that whoever loves Muawiyah will go to heaven and whoever has a grudge against him will go to Hell. And the reference is 'Tatheer-al-jannah', and not only Maulana/Pir X and Y but even some top subcontinental Sunni scholars have quotes it in their books on Shan-e-Hazrat Muawiyah radi Allahu anhu.

Has anybody heard about this hadith or the book?

By the way, its also published on the banner of Sipah-Sahaba's webiste

bro ds there is also a hadith that if you find muawiyah on my pulpit kill him! People will look for whatever they want to prove whatever they want.

Haq is and was always haq - people get trapped by their own rules and laws and cant bring themselves to say it because the feel they may become different to those close to them.

[checkmate]

Why is this site going from one extreme to another. Whats all this hatred against Ameer muawiyah radiAllahu tala anho. Not directed at anyone, just drop the issue. The shaytan has you by the neck and your letting him strangle you. I think enough is enough. What points are you trying to make? (By the way it is a rhetorical question, I done need an answer). Ummul Momineen Hazrat e Ayesha tus-siddiqua radiAllahu tala anha fought against hadrat Ali karamAllahu tala wajha-hulkarim.. What does this say about her, by the way her blessed name means witness to the truth. If you want to apply a standard, do it objectively. If his fighting against Hazrat Ali Asad-Ullah radiAllahu tala anh was wrong, The great mother of the believers also had a hand in the wars..why stay quiet on this issue? surely she was wrong, where does that place her truthfulness? her being witness to the truth..and what about other great companions that fought alongside Ameer Muawiya radiAllahu tala anh.. surely the shiite should be respected in their consistency of application.

If you disagree, then drop the issue and whats happened was a mercy, keep a good outlook on the character of him as he was a sahabi. I dont disagree some may have committed dislikable acts, but hey I dont remember reading they were angels, but humans, for whom its possible to commit such mistakes. Dont be the judge, jury and executioner. Theres one judge, and that is Allah..His judgement is with Allahu subhaanahu wa tala. Just love him for the sake of him being a muslim and a sahabi radiAllahu tala anh. kissa mukhtassar.

Dont talk about mullahs and their extremes when you have that mullah mentality in your own heads.

[objective-enquirer]

Quote

Ummul Momineen Hazrat e Ayesha tus-siddiqua radiAllahu tala anha fought against hadrat Ali karamAllahu tala wajha-hulkarim.. What does this say about her, by the way her blessed name means witness to the truth. If you want to apply a standard, do it objectively. If his fighting against Hazrat Ali Asad-Ullah radiAllahu tala anh was wrong, The great mother of the believers also had a hand in the wars..why stay quiet on this issue? surely she was wrong, where does that place her truthfulness? her being witness to the truth

dear brother, Hazrat Ayesha(s), Hazrat Talha® and Hazrat Zubayr®, all of them regretted and repented their actions. Hence there is no issue. Even hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar regretted that he did not fight along Imam Ali(a). When people have realised that it was their error then matter is finished but with Muwaiya Ibn Abi sufyan the matter is different, he even left yazid incharge of the ummah.

for more details on what our 'aslaf' have said about the king of shaam, please refer to the following thread:
http://www.yanabi.co...amir-muawiyyah/

[Mudassar-Rana]

Do you know br. checkmate it is enough to disquality someone from the position of caliph simply to put oneself forward! Umar bin Abdul Aziz r.a did not even know he was appointed caliph by the people and when they went to congratulate him he retreated and wept. Because he knew the burden that had been placed upon him.

As far as hadhrat bibi ayesha ra she realised that jamal was wrong and that she had been misled and the matter ended there and there was no ill feeling between her and ali a.s.

Again there is no hatred for neither amir muawiyah nor yazid neither do i say anything ill of them. If i have written anything it is simply against the whitewashing of the wrongs perpetrated both against islam and the family of rasool allah s.a.w.

Bro Allah's rasool s.a.w said the blood of a muslim is dearer to allah than the whole of the kaaba and its surroundings - imagine the value that is placed on the blood of imam ali, imam hassan and imam hussein a.s. Imagine what rasool allah s.a.w went through that abdullah ibn abbas r.a saw allah's nabi a.s in his dream collecting the blood of the martyrs of karbala.

Now we can simply turn this into a story, or a bit like them eassops fables we used to read as kids and learn nothing from it, or we can see where things went wrong and hope to learn from them. Another course of action is to re-write history and present it as simply intellectual or judicial disagreement and consign our selves to shed a few tears in muharram.

Just as the sunnah and seerah of syedna ali a.s is one which we can learn from so is the sunnah of ameer muawiyah.

[objective-enquirer]

it is cited by many scholars. In the commentry of the following verse revealed for wives of the Prophet(s), She used to cry and repent as written by many commentators such as abu hayyan al-tawhdidi. the verse:

Quote

And abide in your houses

here is what al-Dhahabi says in his rijal work 'siyar al-aalaam al-nubala about umm al-muminin Ayesha(s):
ولا ريب أن عائشة ندمت ندامة كلية على مسيرها إلى البصرة وحضورها يوم الجمل


There is no doubt that she absolutely regretted participating in the battle of Jamal.

furthermore, Imam Barzanji (d. 1103) whom alahazrat considers as the mujaddid of his times, says in his 'ishrat al-sa`a' that Muawiya fought Imam Ali under deceptive pretext of the qisas for Usman® because why did he not pursue the matter when He had the power without opposition? this laone proves that it was all a drama for power.

[objective-enquirer]

the link for above quote:

http://ar.wikisource...%A6%D8%B4%D8%A9

[checkmate]

JazakAllah brothers, you have made some good points, and made me aware of certain things I did not know, for example the repentance of mother of the believers. If truth be told, I have been reading many a topics in islam at great depths and lengths, apart from the issues surrounding the disputes between Hazrat Ali and Ameer Muawiya radiAllahu tala anhum, as I saw it as a pitfall with no real positive outcome, history will be written and rewritten time and time over, only serving the purposes of peoples own agendas. Therefore I thought this topic to be unproductive, bearing no fruits and I honestly would rather just be ignorant of the issues and be respectful then to dwelve into the issues and open the doors of disrespect.

My personal take on the issue with the limited knowledge I have is that no doubt certain things happened in this part of the islamic history, which give rise to emotional feelings, however, being a sahabi he is for me above all other muslims that are non-sahabi by this virtue, and that alone is enough for me to leave the matter to rest and keep husn-e-dhunn and the matter to Allah tala, hoping he forgives me and all of us for committing worse acts worthty of great punishment. Ameen

[white-falcon]

Edit: There is no harm in referring people in a nice and polite way (even if hate them). Hazrat Muawiyah radi Allahu is well respected in the Sunni world, call him by his famous name "Hazrat Muawiyah" or his official name "Muawiyah bin Abi-Sufyan".

This post has been edited by Desert-Sheikh: 17 May 2012 - 01:52 PM
Reason for edit: Off topic content removed

[Mudassar-Rana]

checkmate, on 17 May 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

My personal take on the issue with the limited knowledge I have is that no doubt certain things happened in this part of the islamic history, which give rise to emotional feelings, however, being a sahabi he is for me above all other muslims that are non-sahabi by this virtue, and that alone is enough for me to leave the matter to rest and keep husn-e-dhunn and the matter to Allah tala, hoping he forgives me and all of us for committing worse acts worthty of great punishment. Ameen

I too realise we are sinful and in dire need always of the mercy of allah but brother checkmate i think its false modesty if you think our sins are worse than what we have already discussed. i know you wish to bury the issue but this is not the way to bury the issue. the reason why it hasnt been buried in 1400 years is because from time to time have failed to uneqivocally condemn wrong and tried to equalise the stature of ali a.s and amir muawiyah.

[iaa]

Too many people on this site take every oppurtunity to have a go at Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu)with hatred spewing out of their words. If you accept him as a sahabi then his rank and status which is not based on his actions are safeguarded and people by spouting hatred are digging a hole for themselves. If you don't accept him as a sahabi or believe he isn't a Muslim like the shias believe then just say so and we'll know where you stand.

Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu) is not of the rank of Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)and no sunni puts him there. You can discuss the disputes and differences that occured between them and or other sahabas but doing it with such hatred for one side with personal attacks is not right. Out of 124 000 sahabis there must have been many who committed mistakes and sins but what service to Islam is it by highlighting them when no one who has come after them can reach their rank or status regardless of what he does or achieves?

[arzooemadinah]

iaa, on 17 May 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Too many people on this site take every oppurtunity to have a go at Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu)with hatred spewing out of their words. If you accept him as a sahabi then his rank and status which is not based on his actions are safeguarded and people by spouting hatred are digging a hole for themselves. If you don't accept him as a sahabi or believe he isn't a Muslim like the shias believe then just say so and we'll know where you stand.

Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu) is not of the rank of Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)and no sunni puts him there. You can discuss the disputes and differences that occured between them and or other sahabas but doing it with such hatred for one side with personal attacks is not right. Out of 124 000 sahabis there must have been many who committed mistakes and sins but what service to Islam is it by highlighting them when no one who has come after them can reach their rank or status regardless of what he does or achieves?

124 000 sahaba?

[Know-the-Ledge]

I'm reading all this with passive interest and am torn, there's so much muddle, conflicting views, reasoning so on and so forth it makes the laymans head spin. For me the matter is simple, there is no doubt that Imam Ali's rank is far superior to anyone's to the point his name is written in the heaven's, Yazid was a lanti, his crimes were deplorable and that to against the family of Hazoor Paak salAllahu 'Alahi wasalaam, my mind boggles how anyone can justify, defend and even commend him(?) Mu'awiyah (ra) is a grey area; but one thing that isn't grey is:

Ali Maula Ali Maula Haq Da Imam E
Men Naio Kenda E Nabi Da Farman E
Bol Raha Tan Man Sara Ali Ali
Mar Jao To Kafan Be Bi Likna Ali Ali

Becharo ke dard ka chara Ali Ali
He Masto Ka Har Dam Nara..........

If Hazoor Paak themselves gave the seal of approval about Ali's qualities many times over, then how can anyone dare to trivialise that?

[iaa]

KTL

We should praise Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)as much as we can and the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (radiyallahuanhu)and the other members of the Ahl--Bait but that can be done without insulting other sahabis. More or less every silsila's link goes through Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)so you're not going to get too far without love for Him. People seem to have this warped idea that praising Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)is only complete when you insult Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu)and do everything possible to dig up anything which shows him in an unfavourable light.

[Know-the-Ledge]

iaa, on 17 May 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

KTL

We should praise Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)as much as we can and the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (radiyallahuanhu)and the other members of the Ahl--Bait but that can be done without insulting other sahabis. More or less every silsila's link goes through Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)so you're not going to get too far without love for Him. People seem to have this warped idea that praising Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)is only complete when you insult Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu)and do everything possible to dig up anything which shows him in an unfavourable light.

I agree! It's an 'in-group out-group' mentality. A psychological phenomena, people come to accept that they can prove their loyalty to a group by besmirching an 'out-group' and derogating the 'out-groups' credence allows them to fast-track a proof of loyalty to the 'in-group', it simplifies human understanding of relationships to the common denominator and shows a lack of intellectual ability of holding conflicting thoughts and ideas at the same time with dilligent measure.

[Desert-Sheikh]

iaa, on 17 May 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Too many people on this site take every oppurtunity to have a go at Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu)with hatred spewing out of their words. If you accept him as a sahabi then his rank and status which is not based on his actions are safeguarded and people by spouting hatred are digging a hole for themselves. If you don't accept him as a sahabi or believe he isn't a Muslim like the shias believe then just say so and we'll know where you stand.

Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu) is not of the rank of Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)and no sunni puts him there. You can discuss the disputes and differences that occured between them and or other sahabas but doing it with such hatred for one side with personal attacks is not right. Out of 124 000 sahabis there must have been many who committed mistakes and sins but what service to Islam is it by highlighting them when no one who has come after them can reach their rank or status regardless of what he does or achieves?

This post is not about ranks either but the intellectual dishonesty of our elders who kept quoting an utter fabricated Hadith in favour of Hazrat Muawiyah radi Allahu anhu.

By the way, this website gives you the freedom to ask anything about anyone and Questioning is neither Haram in Islam nor its called having a go with hatred.

@KTL, your above post is just fabrication.

[Desert-Sheikh]

iaa, on 17 May 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

People seem to have this warped idea that praising Mowla Ali (radiyallahuanhu)is only complete when you insult Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu)and do everything possible to dig up anything which shows him in an unfavourable light.

No, this is not the case here. The Sunni Barelvi scholars have started writing books on Shan-e-Muawiyah (radi Allahu anhu) (hat they cannot prove from a single Shahih Hadith) and delivering lectures to prove that he and his family was 'equivalent' to the family of the Prophet Sallallahu Alieh Wassalam. It becomes fard to tell people that such books and scholars are complete liars. Regarding 'showing him in an unfavourable light', what he has done is mentioned in the authentic books and we are just bringing these thing up to educate our people.

We don't give a toss about these hate allegations.

Ma'salam

[iaa]

@Desert Sheikh

My post wasn't referring to you or any one person in general but was an observation that as soon as anything to do with any sahabi is mentioned it seems a free for all against Hazrat Amir Muawiya (radiyallahuanhu)

@KTL

agree with that.

[Know-the-Ledge]

Desert-Sheikh, on 17 May 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

@KTL, your above post is just fabrication.

Lol? Yes I fabricated it from my own mind.

[Desert-Sheikh]

Know-the-Ledge, on 17 May 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Lol? Yes I fabricated it from my own mind.

Deceiving.

PS: meri tobba agar ab koi post start karoun.