[Brother_MGS]

I know the Afzaliat topics etc. have been locked and I do apoligise in advance to the Admins for making a new topic out of it. If you could possibly add what Im going to write on the appropriate threads. Thank you.

This is the view of Imam Malik(Radiallahu Anhu) one of the 4 Fiqh Imams of the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat.
"Imam Malik (rehmatulla alay) held, Syeda Tahira Fatima Zahra (salamun alayha) as the MOST AFZAL personality after all Prophets and Messengers (alayhimusalam)."
Imam: Shah Abdul Haq Muhaddis e Delvi
Book: Takmirul Imaan p57

I ask the warriors of Afzaliat and Ijma if they mind putting a fatwa on Imam Malik or even better put a fatwa on Hz Abdul Haq Muhaddith Delvi(ra) who is the grand Muhaddith of the Sub Continent, followed by ALL sects, also some view him as the grand Ustaad of Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmed Raza(ra)

It is INCORRECT to believe that Sheikhayn are afzal in EVERY aspect. Where there is an issue with the rawafid and their beliefs, the above mentioned belief is a PROBLEM too. We agree if somebody has fazeelat in a specific aspect then he will be ranked first in that field but that does NOT make him afzal in ALL aspects (e.g hazrat hujama ansari had the fazeelat of his witness being a witness of 2 people and NOBODY else shared this quality, thus he is afzal in the ummah of being a witness).

People who claim that sheikhayn are afzal then mola Ali in every aspect, I politely ask you to read the hadith books properly. We see it was ONLY about Mola Ali that the Messenger said, 'Everybody are from different trees bt me and Ali are from the same tree.' Other examples of Mola Ali being afzal is, The BLOODline of the Messenger is through Ali, the FIRST MUSLIM is Ali and the DISTRIBUTOR of heaven & hell is Ali.'

Imam: Ahmed Raza Khan
Book: Mataul karamayn
pages 24,25

This is the views of Ala Hazrat Mujaddid Deen o Millat Imam Ahmed Raza(ra), now he is the grand Ustaad to all these people that hold very narrow views. Which one of the warriors has the courage to disagree with the Imam?

Scholar: Shah Abdul Haq Muhadis Delvi
Book: Takmeer ul Imaan
There is an IJMAH within the scholars of the ummah that the afzaliayt issue has different views, there is NOT one formal conclusion.

This again is the view of Hz Abdul Haq Delvi sab on the Azaliat issue.

Scholar: Shaykh Az Zarook Shadhili (ala hazrat has prasied this imam throughout fatwa ridwiya and called him 'imam ul ulama')
book: shahra e aqeeda
Jamoor of scholars state that afzaliyat of companions is based upon the order of khalifat however there is NO IJMA.

Scholar: Imam ul Haramayn (ustad of imam Ghazali)
Book: Kitab ul irshad
There is NO specific hadees that specifies one of the khulafa as the most afzal amongst the ummah.

Scholar: Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi Mujaddid Alf Saani
Book: Maktubaat-e-Imam Rabbani vol 1
Afzaliyat amongst the companions is NOT a necessity of belief (zarooriyaat e deen), thus it wil not be something which will be asked on qiyamat.

Scholar: Shah Abdul Aziz Muhadis Delvi (the teacher of the teachers of ala hazrat)
Book: Fatawah
There are two forms of tafdili people. One is that thinks Maula Ali is more azal then shaykhan, this view is ALLOWED in ahle sunnat. MANY SAHABIS such as SULMAN FARSI & HASSAN BIN THABIT aswell as scholars of ahle sunnat helds this view too. The other form of tafdili is, they only respect mola Ali and disrespects every other companions, such tafdili are wrong.

All these scholars I have stated are revered or held in the utmost regard by the Ulema of the Sub Continent, now these are their views on it. This is a NON issue, I have just eaten spicey food that has made me want to do this.

Further proof of Khawarij spreading in to Sunni Islam.

Lesson to be learnt is to study the scholars before you use them and their works as your shield. Real shame Haq Chaar Yaar is recited as zikr and its the be all and end all of Sunni Islam.

[arzooemadinah]

This is Imam sahubs view he is not saying that its written in quraan so if the topic closed why you want to start again. The main thing is if some one thinks that sheikheen afzal or some one thinks hazrat bibi fatimah rz afzal they both right if there mind is saying them who is afzal.

answer brother if a person thinks sheikhen afzal and the other person thinks hazrat bibi fatimah afzal there eman will stay same and they are muslim and nothing will effect there emaan so why we argue all the time.

Many topics better a normal muslim never touch because sometimes he or she can do beyadbi .

if a person thinks hazrat ali is afzal and the other person thinks sheikheen afzal still there eman is same so why we always arguing and fighting .

as you give refrence that hazrat ali is ist muslim so he is afzal so if one will say because hazrat bibi khadijha ist muslim lady she is afzal so what you will say then and if someone will say because hazrat bibi aminah mother of our prophet saw and have eman that she is afzal among all ladies what you will say then .

[Mudassar-Rana]

amazing that in the bas kar yar debate syeda fatima a.s was forgotten!

Its not really a topic that one can debate with all sincerity as we are limited by knowledge and compromised by personal biases. For my own 2 pence worth i think imam hussain a.s is the greatest! I also think that Umar r.a was the best ruler that mankind ever saw but I also agree with Syedna Ali a.s that it was because he was behind him! Lets put it this way mankind will not witness the likes of the first 5 caliphs ever again. And neither will they see another Syeda Fatima a.s nor imam hussain a.s again.

I've seen salafi's shout Ya Umar at a Shia procession whilst they shout back ya ali and in between was a wall of british police! If anybody has an ounce of ghairat they can see how far we have fallen.

[Brother_MGS]

Theres a reason why Ive added this thread, I dont really want to make a heated debate about it. These scholars that Ive mentioned are revered by the sub continent Ulema, they are scholars of very high stature.

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Afzaliyat when examined is not such a difficult topic to understand, it is simply that there are various views and is not an article of faith!

People only stress on things when there is insecurity in their own hearts about it. This is why they shout too, but who can with the tone of their voice take away from Seyyeda or Ali?

Good post and excellent references.

[seeker]

You know how they say Sahabah are like stars... Well, they really are. Some may be further in rank than others, but for us lowly people all the way down here, they all look alike! We can't tell the difference between them, which are higher or lower, though in reality there might be light years between them! Our job is to look at the distance between us and them - not the difference between them and them. Maybe then we will understand something of their true ranks.

[Desert-Sheikh]

The cause of the trouble is lack of knowledge and egoism. All of our inter/intra sectarian issues would have been resolved IF 'scholars' start educating themselves on these things and negotiating with 'others' instead of just shouting, debating and issuing fatwas.

seeker, on 01 April 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

You know how they say Sahabah are like stars... Well, they really are. Some may be further in rank than others, but for us lowly people all the way down here, they all look alike! We can't tell the difference between them, which are higher or lower, though in reality there might be light years between them! Our job is to look at the distance between us and them - not the difference between them and them. Maybe then we will understand something of their true ranks.

I agree with you and the second thing I would like to add is, it's not our job to tell a lot of white lies to hide their mistakes or crimes (if there were any), which are mentioned in the authentic Hadith books. I've recently listened to a Hazrat who told a complete lie while answering a question about a Companion and the only refernce is 'i must save the honor of a Companion'. He must remember that home made answer is not mentioned in any book but Holy Qura'n clearly curses liars.