[sunniskeptic]

assalamu alaykum!

I'm having a terrible fight with some brothers on another forum because I am defending Hamza Yusuf and they consider him a deviant perrenialist!
My question is: why do so many Sunnis from the Indo-Pakistani region or from there ethnically but grown up in the West hate him so much?
Is it because he promotes a version of Islam which is free from their narrow-minded prejudices?

[Mudassar-Rana]

i think he's a bit too posh for them! most brelvi's would fail to understand imam ahmed raza's work never mind sheikh hamza yusuf's. Next time ask them what was imam abu hanifa's name - 99/100 they dont know!Blind taqlid is good but it helps to know the chaps name at least!

[arzooemadinah]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 01 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

assalamu alaykum!

I'm having a terrible fight with some brothers on another forum because I am defending Hamza Yusuf and they consider him a deviant perrenialist!
My question is: why do so many Sunnis from the Indo-Pakistani region or from there ethnically but grown up in the West hate him so much?
Is it because he promotes a version of Islam which is free from their narrow-minded prejudices?

What you mean by version . How many version according to you now in and what was the old version.

Islam is one version from the start and will be same by end of world .

[qalam]

salam

it might have someting to do ith the fact that#:

He doesnt have a ful beard - even though he has stated that it doesnt grow and is like that naturally

He doesnt condemn other groups and actually works on strengthening islam

He actually speaks with knowledge and not emotion

and because he doesn quote saif al malook


dr aq

[arzooemadinah]

And because he is working for unity and he dont call others kafir /gustakhs / bad aqeedha etc.

[seeker]

qalam, on 01 April 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

salam

it might have someting to do ith the fact that#:

He doesnt have a ful beard - even though he has stated that it doesnt grow and is like that naturally

He doesnt condemn other groups and actually works on strengthening islam

He actually speaks with knowledge and not emotion

and because he doesn quote saif al malook


dr aq

You know, I actually agree with you on this one sir. (Although have no idea what saif al malook is!)

[AbuSahl]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 01 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

assalamu alaykum!

I'm having a terrible fight with some brothers on another forum because I am defending Hamza Yusuf and they consider him a deviant perrenialist!
My question is: why do so many Sunnis from the Indo-Pakistani region or from there ethnically but grown up in the West hate him so much?
Is it because he promotes a version of Islam which is free from their narrow-minded prejudices?

If you are referring to XXXXXXX forum, then know that they have fell short of takfir on you , but they didn't shy with on Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. You are according to their logic a kaafir no less than Hamza Yusuf and Dante. Read between the lines.

Why ?

Edit: Please do not make references to other sites or forums in a negative way. (desert sheikh)

Here is assumption by these fools:
* Hamza Yusuf is able to fool 10000s of scholars ( ie Hamza Yusuf Hanson is more clever than the devil himself - able to fool pious muslim scholars but not able to fool arrogant fools like XXXXXXXXXXXXX)

* Habib Ali Jifri doesn't read english that is why he and Abdullah bin Bayyah are signatories on the Interfaith world religion conferences ?? ( give me a break , if scholars can sign on papers without understanding or knowing what is written on it, then why call them scholars ?

The problem with Takfiri Khariji masabih forum is that they don't tolerate other madhhabs of Ahlus Sunnah and only looking for more stooges for their takfiri cult.

This post has been edited by Desert-Sheikh: 01 April 2012 - 10:56 PM

[The-Mughal-Sister]

qalam, on 01 April 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

salam

it might have someting to do ith the fact that#:

He doesnt have a ful beard - even though he has stated that it doesnt grow and is like that naturally

He doesnt condemn other groups and actually works on strengthening islam

He actually speaks with knowledge and not emotion

and because he doesn quote saif al malook


dr aq

Good points.

Also he condemns men raising their miswaak against woman or any other violence on women.

He supports women in their importance to society as a whole, let me quote:

Any society which fails to educate, engage and involve women in Islamic activities is destined to fail. Behind every great man is a great woman. If we fail to produce great women, we will never produce great men.

He promotes unity rather than his own sect/maslak etc

He talks about Islam to the universal audience rather than the same bunch of people.

His preaching is alien to other groups because he works in ways they cannot comprehend.

[sunniskeptic]

Just for full disclosure i should point out that this whole argument in this instance started when someone mentioned this lecture which Shaykh Hamza recently
gave about the Italian poet Dante and his work The Divine Comedy. As some of you more well-read people will know Dante has some verses in their which are highly
insulting to our Prophet, even though
it is a classic of Western literature. People began to intimate that HY was a kafir and when I tried to defend him I was called all sorts of things from vile, hell-bound, pathetic, Uncle Tom etc.

Here is the link to the lecture. Listen to it yourself:

[AbuSahl]

Warning:

Do not insult.

Speak with intelligence and knowledge.

TMS

This post has been edited by The-Mughal-Sister: 01 April 2012 - 08:53 PM

[Mudassar-Rana]

im sure if hamza yusuf is correct then he is big enough to defend himself! What has Dante got to do with islam or the plight of the muslim ummah any way. The one thing that YANABI.COM has over most sunni forums is the will to entertain different strains of thought which others dont have. This is down to mods all having different viewpoints and thus its encouraged to not just tow the line but actively search for the truth.

These sort of topics are fine when you have a flourishing economy, an educated people, ulema that are the leading lights of the world - but at this current moment in time your asking for trouble.

Hamza Yusuf at one stage was a leading light of the uni going brelvi/sufi brethren who longed to see their maslak or something remotely representing it presented in an intellectual manner especially with the likes of HT prowling the campuses. HY presented some comfort to them.

However like with a lot of things, including HT itself - HY is not as popular as he once was. One of the big reasons for this was his alledged closeness to the Bush regime after the 9/11 attacks. To be fair I dont think the wahabi/salafi's ever liked him anyway and now some brelvi's have also joined the camp.

The will to actually reflect upon ones ownself and the fault that lies within us and the heart to actually own up to them is one of the most basic conditions to enjoy sincere discussion. I am not keen on calling them debates because what invariably happens is a slanging match occurs where each party tries to outdo each other with obscure quotations from even more obscure books. Where we all pretend that we have actually heard and read these books!

[Desert-Sheikh]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 01 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Replying to Why Do Some "barelvis" Hate Shaykh Hamza Yusuf So Much?

Why not simply ignore them?

If we start ignoring 'them', there will be less hatred in the 'Muslim' world.

[Malaaikah]

Agree with DS

I can hear Shaykh Hamza saying...

Just let it go, we dont have time for all these arguments, we spend hours and hours picking out the faults in others when will we examine ourselves? When will we have time to correct our own actions? Theres no room for arguments in our short lives, we have wasted our whole life already, how many of us can actually stand up and say they spent their lives in the way of Allah an that they wouldnt change a single second of it, the least we can do is give the short time that we do have in the way of Allah.

Ya Allah Forgive us all.

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Hamza Yusuf is not obliged nor bound to Barelvism. This is a popular sect in the Asian subcontinent so in reality it does not exist outside the mental parameters of Scholars in India and Pakistan.

HY is free, is an intellectual, and is taking away Religion from the Brownies. He is a 'newcomer' to Islam and has made remarkable progress in his understanding and is able to give a sound argument and this does not sit well with the Sheykhain of the narrow-school-of-thought otherwise known as Barelvies.

Think it a measure of good scholarly attribute when Barelvies hate you.

[Mudassar-Rana]

Desert-Sheikh, on 01 April 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Why not simply ignore them?

If we start ignoring 'them', there will be less hatred in the 'Muslim' world.

Im not HY or TUQ's biggest fan either but until im of the level that I can discuss with them academically and make an intellectual and ideological critique of their work there isnt much point about shouting takfir - let the ahle ilm do their work.

When a new car rolls into the village the dogs start barking and only quieten when they see their faces in the shiny alloys!



Aashiq Hoyon Rub Da Howi Malamat Laakh
Ouh Tenu Kafir Kafir Aakh De Tu Aho Aho Aakh

[seeker]

Mudassar-Rana, on 01 April 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

One of the big reasons for this was his alledged closeness to the Bush regime after the 9/11 attacks.

I never understood this. I WANT our Ulema to gain influence in our Western countries. The Jewish communities have been powerful lobbyists here and look at the unconditional relationship it has forged with Israel! If our Ulema can be more useful in policy making then that is excellent. I feel like it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't to be honest.

[Mudassar-Rana]

seeker, on 01 April 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

I never understood this. I WANT our Ulema to gain influence in our Western countries. The Jewish communities have been powerful lobbyists here and look at the unconditional relationship it has forged with Israel! If our Ulema can be more useful in policy making then that is excellent. I feel like it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't to be honest.

Bro I think thats a misrepresentation of what actually happened and is happening.

Firstly it is not jewish rabbi's or thinkers that hold such a massive hold over american foreign policy.

Secondly the power and influence of jewish lobbyists is directly linked to the ownership of the financial sector, the media and hollywood.if jewish thinkers and rabbi's are represented it is directly a result of the influence the power media barons and bankers hold.

Thirdly HY didnt really have much sway over the direction of Bush it was merely a rubber stamp or if you like to narrow the credibility gap. When Mahesh Bhatt an indian Hindu Film Director can say no to Bush's invitation with the words you are the biggest terrorist - need i say more... ? Forgive me I am not questioning his motives - because that would be out of order - i am saying as far as muslim public opinion is concerned it was an own goal.

[seeker]

The difference I think of a relationship between Shaykh Hamza and someone in entertainment is that of representation and counsel. If there is anyone I want to represent me in North America to the government - it's Shaykh Hamza. If there is anyone to be speaking to the ears of the White House - it should be him. I mean, what are the worst possible motives, seriously - financial gain? A rubber stamp from George Bush? I think Sh. Hamza is intelligent enough to realise what is an own goal when it's that blatant. It's more than giving Bush credibility or gaining credibility through him.

My teacher, a Syrian Shaykh, says that the Muslims of the West have benefited greatly from Shaykh Hamza... Even if they don't know it. Of course, the reality of the situation as an advisor to the US govt is something we don't know about, but at the very least I believe he went into it hoping for some positive outcomes. Even if it was a complete waste of time, I think it is more of a shame for the Muslims than for him should they think badly of that.

[Raed]

Hamza Yusuf seems to like Ibn Taimiyya ALOT, I never see Sunni in Pak liking IBM Taimiyyah , IBn taiiyyah also has doctrine of Tajsim of Allah MazAllah

[qalam]

Raed, on 02 April 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hamza Yusuf seems to like Ibn Taimiyya ALOT, I never see Sunni in Pak liking IBM Taimiyyah , IBn taiiyyah also has doctrine of Tajsim of Allah MazAllah

salam

which sunni scholar iscussed and fought against the mongol army invading syria and the muslim world in his time?



none


apart from ibn taymiyyah

dr aq