[JoeDacky]

Salaam,

If it were not for tarkhans, Syed Irfan Shah Sahib would not have a mimbar from where could abuse fellow muslims and he certainly wouldnt have a wooden stick with which to beat them.

[badman]

Salams,

A few years ago I told a group of his followers in the UK that they were showing/bigging their shah saab too much (some clearly were not too impressed with my upfront approach) and in return (cut the long story short) I was questioned whether I was a Sunni!!! Certain aspects of his gathering I questioned to which I was told that he (shah saab) does not live for this world and that he has left the dunya, being a Sayed he has mastered on how to let go of his nafs and in no uncertain terms shaytan cannot touch him! ((hmmm, left the dunya, hmmm...... So the one big pack that insulates his stomache in the 12 months of winter must be food sent from the heavens - no I never said this to them - there were about 30 of them!!!LolZ) but you get the jist, right!


(agree with Brother M.R, its not only him at fault but the people around him who are bigging shah saab - even them might be questioned on the day of Qiyamah) - tho i hope not.

What an Idiot! If he's belittling/insulting some people who's trade is carpenting then maybe he should read the Seerah of His Nabi's S.A.W Blessed Brother - Nabi Isa A.S?

Far from being a shah saab or a molana saab to an outsider he would seem to be personality that would suit a butumeez saab from the way he goes on..... a bully who's hiding behind a group of grown up sheeps!

[Brother_MGS]

in the mid 1980s he said alot of ill things about the Lalajees of Golra Sharif, really nasty things. He even swore at the elder Lalajee's wife, who happens to be the mother of Pir Sayyid Naseer uddin Naseer sahib.

The chief trustee of my Masjid, who is a devout mureed of Hazrat Babuji(RA) went to confront him in Birmingham over his comments. They argued and the trustee ended up decking Pir Irfan Shah.

This is the same Molvi that happens to be an admirer of Golra Sharif on TV and holds Pir Naseer uddin Saab as one of his dear friends.

[Mudassar-Rana]

[quote name='badman' timestamp='1330953692' post='443599']
Salams,

[size="4"]A few years ago I told a group of his followers in the UK that they were showing/bigging their shah saab too much (some clearly were not too impressed with my upfront approach) and in return (cut the long story short) I was questioned whether I was a Sunni!!!


No matter what we or anyone else says - there is a danger that this becomes them and us sort of debate and therefore people take even more extreme positions out of fear of being seen as "not sunni" enough etc. A few realities are that leaders are bron from within us. They arent sent from the skies to drop in on us everytime we shout superman. Umar r.a was a great leader but he was from amongst great men.

This is entertainment to an audience starved of entertainment. That is a pakistani's excuse. What is our excuse here in england? We love to hear from the mimbar the next lion king yet in our desire to be lions we forget humanity?! Fearlessness is the quality of a lion but so is grace. I hae yet to see this from the mimbar.

In the past we have had had threads on why do people see fit to shout from the mimbar? Does it make your point any better or more valid if you can shout like sultan rahi and sing like like mohammad rafi and then have the talent to seamlessley switch between both modes?

I dont blame shah irfan saab one little bit. If he bad mouths or employs profanity so what the audience loved it. And he is filling market demand, and in a capitalist society he who fills demand wins.

We all talk amongst ourselves at the corruption of zardari, but I think we owe zardari a massive thank you because he is a mirror to the ills amongst us. He is showing us what our society is. Do you think if we exhibited the morals and ikhlaq of syedna ali, umar and abu bakr we would have rulers and dacoits running government and mosques. Not just in pakistan i hasten to add. Look at your local councillors in the UK and the local committee members would you trust them in your house?

Stop complaining - irfan shah has done us all a favour and we should congratulate him for that.

[kalakahn]

piara-madinah, on 04 March 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

more upsetting why he is claiming that he is from sayyeds etc when he cant keep there respect , the best man is among us who got best ikhlaq manners and taqwa and what he is representing that if he is sayyed he is allowed to do anything but he is wrong but the real sayeeds never act like that.

even a good human never act as he is acting.

We have so called big scholars now days who are master of external knowledge of quran and sunna but they have no knowledge of internal knowledge ie tasawuuf (showing off, envoy, jealousy, backbitting etc) that's why i don't listen to such scholars all they talk about is AQEEDA nothing else, where are the true scholars when they used to give bayan it used to hit in depth of people hearts, i rather listen to dawate islami, shaykh yaqubi, hamza yusuf

[A-New-Hope]

Brother_MGS, on 05 March 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

in the mid 1980s he said alot of ill things about the Lalajees of Golra Sharif, really nasty things. He even swore at the elder Lalajee's wife, who happens to be the mother of Pir Sayyid Naseer uddin Naseer sahib.

The chief trustee of my Masjid, who is a devout mureed of Hazrat Babuji(RA) went to confront him in Birmingham over his comments. They argued and the trustee ended up decking Pir Irfan Shah.

This is the same Molvi that happens to be an admirer of Golra Sharif on TV and holds Pir Naseer uddin Saab as one of his dear friends.

Brother MGS

Recently in the Victor street mosque in Bradford after the Jaloos Sahibzada Syed Nizam ud Din Jami Sahib (son of Shah Naseer Sahib (ra)) said to the effect that if anyone was doing correct interpretation of Ahle Sunnat today, then that person is Syed Irfan Sahah Sahib.

Sahibzada Jami Sahib made clear that he isn't in the habit of praising anyone. Words to that effect (my Urdu is average).

Perhaps Sahibzada Sahib shouldn't encourage Shah Sahib further?

If I find the video I'll post it.

[hamzaahmad123]

Stick to the topic and dont vent your anger at others,

This post has been edited by Desert-Sheikh: 05 March 2012 - 04:37 PM

[Desert-Sheikh]

The_Thing, on 05 March 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Brother MGS

Recently in the Victor street mosque in Bradford after the Jaloos Sahibzada Syed Nizam ud Din Jami Sahib (son of Shah Naseer Sahib (ra)) said to the effect that if anyone was doing correct interpretation of Ahle Sunnat today, then that person is Syed Irfan Sahah Sahib.

Sahibzada Jami Sahib made clear that he isn't in the habit of praising anyone. Words to that effect (my Urdu is average).

Perhaps Sahibzada Sahib shouldn't encourage Shah Sahib further?

If I find the video I'll post it.

Though it has nothing to do with the topic at hand but as you have posted it, i dont like to publish the comments or views of different scholars about their fellow scholars. Each groups has a list of Mashaikh and Scholars 'praising' their leader or Shaykh that proves nothing. It reminds me famouse punjabi proverb "Khawaja da gawah dadhu". By the way, this is not aimed at anyone in particular.

PS: They are cut from the same cloth.

[A-New-Hope]

Desert-Sheikh, on 05 March 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Though it has nothing to do with the topic at hand but as you have posted it, i dont like to publish the comments or views of different scholars about their fellow scholars. Each groups has a list of Mashaikh and Scholars 'praising' their leader or Shaykh that proves nothing. It reminds me famouse punjabi proverb "Khawaja da gawah dadhu". By the way, this is not aimed at anyone in particular.

PS: They are cut from the same cloth.

I was aware it could be interpreted as off-topic, however it does follow on from what other users have identified, that the blame is also on the gathering (public at large). My post went a little further and suggested that the blame can also lie at other scholars for encouraging (directlt or indirectly).

[sunniskeptic]

I would like brothers to discuss the general casteism that exists in Pakistani society and the diaspora where we have myriad castes with sayyids at the top and so-called 'kammi-kameen' (basically manual
labourers and artisans) at the bottom; yet we pretend that only Hinduism has a caste system! We have one too in practise.

If we didn't have one, one wouldn't see the caste listed on the matrimonials either in Pakistan or the UK or anywhere else where Pakistanis have gone! 'Educated Sunni Muslim wanted for my fair skinned daughter .Arain/Jatt/Sayyid/Gujjar/etc. [delete as appropriate!] caste only')

So lets not talk about individuals but the larger problem, the root cause!

[hafiz-qadri]

Desert-Sheikh, on 05 March 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

No, it’s not just mocking of "low castes" by Shah Sahib, it’s mocking of 'fellow' scholars and in reality it’s ‘naach na jane aangan teda‘. Instead of responding to questions or academically discussing the issues, he swears, shouts and call them bad names to prove that they are not of his calibre but as a matter of fact, they are more qualified than him, academically and professionally.

Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadiri Sahib belongs to Sayiaal family, the famous cast of Jhang which Heer belonged to but Irfan Shah Sahib calls him Kanjar, Dalla etc and I could even ignore this if he only holds this approach about non-Syed scholars because there are always some cast-worshipers in all over the world but he attacks ‘Syed’ scholars in the same way, he once called Syed Abdul Qadir Jilani, a Mirasi, who is actually a Hasmhi Syed, up to his own standard as per his own claim and by calming only Hasmi are of my calibre he even doesn’t consider Hazrat Abu Bakar and Hazrat Umra Farooq (Radi Allahu Anhum) of his calibre because they are not Hashmi.....but when it comes to receive funds from Wahabiy, the same Banu-Ummyiah worshiper Mullah goes left to the right to prove that Abu Sufyan (har lehaaz sey Rasool Allah ki ‘takkar’ ka tha) ‘by all means’ was equivalent of Imam-ul-Anbiya Hazrat Muhammad Sallallahu Alieh Wassalam.

PS: **********************

Warning to all users ; we have had enough of Pir Irfan Shah and posts about him will be deleted immediately.

Aslaamualikum

Brother have you heard Irfan Shah sahibs explaination regarding Takkar ki Log and Stopping of Naara Haideri he has denied both crimes,he was asked both questions on Umma Tv by Sabri Sahib and his reply was abysmal.It's either he has a memory problem or he lies.I don't know why we are all getting so worked up about this scenario,for many years this is expected by Irfan Shah Sahib and his followers.Long gone are those days when scholars would sit and discuss Islamic matters in a professional and mannered way because Sunniat has been Hijacked by these Mullah Mafia Brigade who go to any lengths just to make a name for themselves even if it Damages the Ahle Sunnat.

[Desert-Sheikh]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 05 March 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

So lets not talk about individuals but the larger problem, the root cause!

The curse of caste system is still prevalent in entire Sub-continent and Arabian peninsula. We should definitely discuss it but that would require a separate thread I think.

@The_Thing, sorry for the confusion. Your post was very relevant, that i said about my reply because it is off topic.

[sunniskeptic]

it exists in the Arabian peninsula too?

[Tahir-Riaz]

qadrimuslim, on 04 March 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Is this Islam? what do we do about it?

I don't see how Islam comes into the equation. Without any reference to the speaker, why should norms of a gangster affect Islam or Muslims?
Even though politics can be camouflaged as religion, there is and always have been a difference between the two.

Forgive me for saying this but...

SO WHAT?

[qadrimuslim]

We can talk about the caste system in a separate thread.

The issue in this thread is open humiliation of other castes by a Maulana sat on the mimbar - in a Masjid.

And then the verbal and physical assault directed at someone in the Masjid by the Maulana, and encouragement for others to "beat him".

Diverting the topic won't make it go away.

[Tahir-Riaz]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 05 March 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

I would like brothers to discuss the general casteism that exists in Pakistani society and the diaspora where we have myriad castes with sayyids at the top and so-called 'kammi-kameen' (basically manual
labourers and artisans) at the bottom; yet we pretend that only Hinduism has a caste system! We have one too in practise.

Same Shi* new wrapping. This caste business has made Muslims amongst the most racist people on earth.

[sunniskeptic]

i agree with brother Tahir: same stuff in a different wrapping!

--
its not a matter of diverting the issue--your own mods have said not to talk about sayyid irfan shah again; we have all agreed his behaviour was wrong
but if you keep on going on about it i don't see how that helps in any way?
i get it. you don't approve of the guy but what's the point of beating a dead horse again and again?


--
i would ask one of the mods to start a new thread on the caste system in islam and to close this thread.

[YaNabi-Chemist]

It's a completely different ball game with Irfan Shah, no other personality that we discuss here exhibits such reckless, insane and egotistical behavior.

[sunniskeptic]

actually, if we just ignored such crassness and didn't give it publicity, it would go away...

i also think that most of our ulema va mashaikh are just in it to make a living and not doing it for the betterment of islam or for love of Allah va Rasool (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam). They are, in that sense, no different from the Catholic clergy. They've made Islam into a career--and a lucrative one at that! Have you ever seen a poor celebrity pir or maulana? Regular nazrana and chanda from mureeds, free food at mureeds houses, invites from people wanting dam and darood, people offering to pay for your Hajj,
the choiciest boTiyaan at langars, people even go as far as giving their daughters to these people in marriage despite massive age gaps....not a bad way of making a living eh? There are enough gullible people in the world to make it a career with a long shelf-life! The sad part is that it makes people hate the rare, genuine, ulema and mashaikhs out there (wherever they are--but we know they do exist as Ibn Arabi mentions).

[YaNabi-Chemist]

It's a matter of personal choice.

I have no affiliations with any Shaykh or personality. So, it's very easy for me to make unbiased judgement (I don't mean to blow my own trumpet).

When we see something bad are we supposed to stay quiet? No, if we can't do anything about it physically, then we are told to at least speak out against it, if we can't do that then at least feel it in ones heart.

Any rational person can see that this is wrong and are not the actions of person that is capable of guiding people. The prophet (pbuh) came to perfect our manners, conduct et cetera something that is the complete opposite of Irfans conduct.

When we speak of ignoring - we mean we should ignore him IN PERSON (as I understand). A user in a previous post has commented "we all know you hate irfan shah", but what has that got to do with anything? An unbiased person would have no problem speaking against his own father if he was in the wrong....

This post has been edited by YaNabi-Chemist: 05 March 2012 - 08:27 PM