[Mudassar-Rana]

Just to add further that it shouldnt be taken as a dig against ummah channel because its more constructive criticsm, as i dont have a stake in the success of any of the other channels.

If it wishes to continue in this manner then the next step ought to be a name change to something more appropriate because the round table panel barring one noble young chap whose name i cant remember the rest are there to have a right go. I caught a programme today and the gentleman concerned ends his dua that may allah grant all to be on the "true" islam - the ASWJ. If that isnt stirring the hornets nest i dont know what is.

Truth in the history of mankind never needed advertising. Haq has always been haq and this self promotion is to be honest cringeworthy. To make a mockery of the deen of allah in such a manner really deserves castigation.

[sunniskeptic]

The sad thing is it was a good speech for the first 3 minutes! Shah Sahib should have let the man speak and then answered his question instead of reacting like he did!
As for the crowd--what a bunch of hooligans!

BTW it looks like this was in Pakistan, not in the UK.

[Mudassar-Rana]

the bigger point that needs to be discussed purely from an academic and intellectual foundation is direct descendancy to rasool allah s.a.w

Because this allows not just pir cults but also dictators and corrupt rulers to flourish. The british realised how they could use this to their advantage when they installed the sharif family in jordan asked the hashemites to rebel against the ottomans and gave thousands of acres of land to "syeds" in British India.

Perhaps i will start another thread!

[harun7865]

piara-madinah, on 04 March 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

more upsetting why he is claiming that he is from sayyeds etc when he cant keep there respect , the best man is among us who got best ikhlaq manners and taqwa and what he is representing that if he is sayyed he is allowed to do anything but he is wrong but the real sayeeds never act like that.

even a good human never act as he is acting.

Who are you to claim that he is not Syed? and how can you just say such a thing without evidence?

I don't agree with Syed Irfan Shah's behaviour one iota however there is a limit, be wary that in your hot headedness you don't become what you vehemently oppose. Only the Prophets (May peace and blessings be upon them all) are infallible. May Allah swt and Beloved Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon Him) give and show Syed Irfan Shah hidaya.

Ameen sum Ameen.

[Desert-Sheikh]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 04 March 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

The sad thing is it was a good speech for the first 3 minutes! Shah Sahib should have let the man speak and then answered his question instead of reacting like he did!
As for the crowd--what a bunch of hooligans!

BTW it looks like this was in Pakistan, not in the UK.

He simply doesn't have the capacity, ability and manners to answer the questions. I could never forget his reply, 'jehda aey akhda aey, O haramda hey, haramda (who asked this question is a bastard, bastard), to a question raised by a 'fellow' scholar.

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Irfan Shah Sahab is as representative of a Seyyed as he is representative of a human. Just because his actions are questionable does not mean all Seyyeds are bad or all humans are. He is an example of an uneducated Mullah and joins ranks with thousands of others screaming and shouting in some Mosque in Pakistan.

One can not pick one bad Seyyed to represent all of them. And he is a human first and will be affected by psychological problems or ignorance just as any other would. Being Seyyed does not give one immunity from human frailties, to suggest otherwise is naive.

A saying of Hazrat Ali sums this situation up quite well: 'If someones deeds lower his position, his pedigree can not elevate it'.

[qadrimuslim]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 04 March 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

The sad thing is it was a good speech for the first 3 minutes! Shah Sahib should have let the man speak and then answered his question instead of reacting like he did!
As for the crowd--what a bunch of hooligans!

BTW it looks like this was in Pakistan, not in the UK.

Good speech? You need to have your ears checked. Someone should put the transcripted translation what he says with regards to lower castes. Most of his speeches are usually just shouting and getting kicks from ridiculing others. You are right though, that his audience is also to blame. Why pay for cinemas when you get free entertainment in the Masjid? Oh and the food's free too!

Apart from the derogatory remarks to other castes, in this speech, it looks like he gives a tunnel vision ideology which propagates Barelvi'ism as a sect - not something I ascribe to. This mentality is driving people away from Sunniyat which is evident in Pakistan and much of the UK.

Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza (RA) never propagated himself as the founder of a sect or the make all and end all of Sunniyat. He is free from the extremist ideology and hatred being promoted falsely in his name.

[Desert-Sheikh]

qadrimuslim, on 04 March 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Is this Islam? what do we do about it?

Ignoring him is one of the best things you could do, just leave him alone.

I could have deleted this topic but many users have contributed to it. Please, do not post any videos about him again, we are not interested in promoting his lectures. Neither can we stop him nor his audience, if you are really concerned, just stop 'following' him.

[Desert-Sheikh]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 04 March 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

This is wrong but I seriously question the motives of you posting this on here. You have obvious motives against Irfan Shah sahib as he is
against your own pir sahib. it is okay to post such videos on here but the moment someone posts videos of either pir abdul qadir shah sahib or prof. tahir ul qadri
which are also dodgy you either ban the person, or delete the video, or both saying we don't tolerate such fitna mongering on here!

NO, We only ban hate maggots and ill mannered people. If you are really concerned about the views or actions of the scholars you have expressly indicated above then don't hesitate to ask but good manners and etiquettes are essential to hold an acdemic discussion.

[Qadri-Jilani]

Yes it's sad to know that we have such ignoble ignoramuses among our people and someone above put it right, it looked like a scene from the rapacious savagery of the Vikings found in an Anglo-Saxon account, or a reminder of the uncouth brute Libyan rebels (wild salafis). I was thinking, imagine you had this audience sat together with their sunnitalk counterparts from the UK--what a party, and I'm sure they are dreaming of the day they can make that union.

I do however disagree with one of the users above because to mobilise such jahil animals you need a leader of some sort and they have it in this man who motivates them to do stupid things and behave so lowly. In fact in this video he orders them to beat the poor man and continue to beat them. So the primary blame lies on him, he could have easily told them to stop but instead eggs them on. (I think his disability stick is being used to beat him, with perhaps a couple more sticks and plenty of slaps).

[objective-enquirer]

jinna de guru padney te chailay wee tarkao!!!

[Qadri-Jilani]

I can actually hear what is being said on my speakers: He starts out by insulting someone or some persons of lohar (blacksmith) and tarkhaan (carpenter, he also calls it tak takaya which is a more insulting way of saying it) background due to their low caste and says that he does not make feuds and enmity with people of low castes. Anyway he carries on with this until someone starts firing naras. This is when the man stands up and requests politely "pehla mawzoo sahih chal raha tha" - in others words before you started insulting the individual(s) your speech was fine [and please continue with it]. To this he replies rhetorically and with what seems like a punjabi swear "yawaN", and then a "kutta" who will get smacked by his stick etc etc.

(Well you now have the main part you which you said was not clearly audible, and you now know the poor man did not swear at him or anything else).

[BrotherFromAnotherMother]

Is this the same guy who got arrested in the UK a while back? I remember seeing the video on youtube, it was at a milad sharif in a masjid.

[qadrimuslim]

That's irrelevant - The sad truth is that this person is being pushed forward by others who think the same but are far too civilised to act this way in public themselves.

Some young impressionable Sunnis are being radicalised by this individual who then go out and act and speak in the same way. In their eyes, hatred, violence and vulgar language is perfectly acceptable because that is what they are taught in the Masjid.

Some of his radicalised followers display these traits online.. just look at their hate filled posts on other sites and the negativity they have unloaded on sad old Youtube - all of which has badnamed the Sunni Jamaat we are supposed to belong to - they are just too blind and brainwashed to see it.

This Maulana is undoubtedly an embarrassment for the Ahlus Sunnah and we are continuously having to clean up his mess wherever he goes.

Just imagine how we look from outside when all the outsiders see of us are these imbeciles acting like complete Jahils!

[qalam]

Salaam

Very sad indeed but the matter has been poignantly described by my namesake qm in that thus man had created numerous mini mes by brainwashing the youth who also have a foul mouth.

Racist xenophobic that's what describes thus man

Dr aq

[hafiz-qadri]

Aslaamualikum

SHOCKING

[sunniskeptic]

Thanks for the transcription QJ.
I'm afraid this mocking of "low castes" is not restricted to only Shah Sahib but is prevalent amongst all segments of Pakistani society. Sadly sayyids are especially prone to this arrogance: I'm not going to even deign to reply to you because you're not a sayyid. They find indirect support for this unofficial caste system in the fiqh books under the heading of kufw or kafa'at which lists all sorts of rules about who can marry who and who cannot because they are not of equal kufw. Add this to our proximity to the Hindu caste system for a millennium and this kind of attitude is easy to explain.
And we're all part of the problem. How many Pakistani families in the Uk would marry there daughters to a so called kammi such as a tarkhan or lohar or mochi (cobbler)?

[Major-Screw-Loose]

I think such Molvis need to get up and get a full time job and sign up at Jobcentre and also take anger/temper management classes including courses on adaab, akhlaaq, code of conduct etc, he should implement these in himself and then educate others with it too. Whacking walking sticks to fellow persons isn't going to do much improvements to that person or to the society.

Regarding the filam I saw in that youtube, its very sad news. You really wouldn't expect that to come from a Pir Sahib/Molvie Sahib. Clearly, this Pir Sahib has got major anger/temper problems and he should see his Doctor about this so they can diagnose him and refer him to a specialist.

When Shah Rukh Khan gets angry in real life and slaps the next man and assaults him, at the end of it, SRK apologises for his actions. If an actor can make mistakes and seek apologies, I don't see why an ulama/pir sahib can't do the same also. Pir Sahib needs to approach the man gently and explain why he assaulted and behaved with the man like he did and he should seek forgiveness and then start building up on his character.

By the way, if you are in wudu and also sitting on the mimber and being present in house of Allah (masjid), and if a person starts using very foul language like swearing and also using boxing gloves to punch your questioner and beat the audience with your walking sticks as well as requesting the audience to take a jump and beat an individual, is that person's widu intact or does the wudu crack/break and does the person need to perform his wudu again?

If a non-Muslim saw this happening (beating and swearing in masjid), I don't know what he or she would be thinking about Islam and Muslims? Surely the non-Muslim would find Islam and Muslims very appealing.

Should such molvis/Pir Sahibs need to quit giving speeches and pack up, and instead get a full time job instead of beating up people that object or question them?

What if such Pir Sahib was the president or prime minister of our country, can you imagine the state the country would be in? Who would love to have him as President or Prime Minister or in any other government department?

[Brother_MGS]

Ive heard some very strange things about this Pir Saab that is in the video. Infact its the reason he and his fellow companions are banned from coming to the Masjid I go to.

These people have made their mission in life to refute who they believe are deviant of their path. Their path can be very disputable. Amongst their missions are to defend Hazrat Ameer Mauwiya to the tilt. Its Jahil Ulema like this that are also beginning to lead many youth astray. It is Ulema like this that are not teaching the love of the Ahle Bayt e Paak anymore.

You know what theres no point of even talking about this man and his fellows, ever since I heard him say that the Narah of Ali is a Shia kalamat and the punjabi Narah of Thaqeeq is alot better to say, I have lost alot of respect towards him. maybe because I have immense love for Ali and his family.

The Narah of Ali was sent from the heavens and was the only other slogan our beloved Prophet Salallahu Alaiyhi Wa Aalihi Wa Saahbihi Wa Salim chanted apart from Takbeer.

[Desert-Sheikh]

Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 05 March 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

Thanks for the transcription QJ.
I'm afraid this mocking of "low castes" is not restricted to only Shah Sahib but is prevalent amongst all segments of Pakistani society. Sadly sayyids are especially prone to this arrogance: I'm not going to even deign to reply to you because you're not a sayyid. They find indirect support for this unofficial caste system in the fiqh books under the heading of kufw or kafa'at which lists all sorts of rules about who can marry who and who cannot because they are not of equal kufw. Add this to our proximity to the Hindu caste system for a millennium and this kind of attitude is easy to explain.
And we're all part of the problem. How many Pakistani families in the Uk would marry there daughters to a so called kammi such as a tarkhan or lohar or mochi (cobbler)?

No, it’s not just mocking of "low castes" by Shah Sahib, it’s mocking of 'fellow' scholars and in reality it’s ‘naach na jane aangan teda‘. Instead of responding to questions or academically discussing the issues, he swears, shouts and call them bad names to prove that they are not of his calibre but as a matter of fact, they are more qualified than him, academically and professionally.

Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadiri Sahib belongs to Sayiaal family, the famous cast of Jhang which Heer belonged to but Irfan Shah Sahib calls him Kanjar, Dalla etc and I could even ignore this if he only holds this approach about non-Syed scholars because there are always some cast-worshipers in all over the world but he attacks ‘Syed’ scholars in the same way, he once called Syed Abdul Qadir Jilani, a Mirasi, who is actually a Hasmhi Syed, up to his own standard as per his own claim and by calming only Hasmi are of my calibre he even doesn’t consider Hazrat Abu Bakar and Hazrat Umra Farooq (Radi Allahu Anhum) of his calibre because they are not Hashmi.....but when it comes to receive funds from Wahabiy, the same Banu-Ummyiah worshiper Mullah goes left to the right to prove that Abu Sufyan (har lehaaz sey Rasool Allah ki ‘takkar’ ka tha) ‘by all means’ was equivalent of Imam-ul-Anbiya Hazrat Muhammad Sallallahu Alieh Wassalam.

PS: **********************

Warning to all users ; we have had enough of Pir Irfan Shah and posts about him will be deleted immediately.

This post has been edited by Desert-Sheikh: 05 March 2012 - 12:53 PM