[badman]

Salams,

So? did anybody watch the channel four documentary on 'make Bradford British' last night? (Sister, TMS had highlighted the documentary on her Twitter page)

"If a dog is born in a stable it dont make it a horse does it?" ..... "yeah well said mhate yeaeahh" replies the other idiot.

Has this/did this programme made a difference to you? 8 people coming toghether under one roof? what has it shown us? (one of the aspects of being a human despite my/our shortcomings)To me its shown that with a bit of understanding, give and take and maybe putting others first - if we have it in us we can change peoples perception towards us and our perception towards those who are slightly different to us.
ALLAH Says to us in the Quran (HE SWT) has made people of different colours, different tribes, languages and nationalities so that we might come toghether and learn from one another.
In this documentary Richard ooops sorry Rashid Bhai (I think) learned a lesson from his worshiping that maybe its not the quantity of the sawaab he recieves from his prayer that ALLAH might be looking for as much as the quality of his worship! (Masha'ALLAH) In just one instance he changed the perception of the people around him - from just one of his physical sacrifices (to one of a spiritual).
From being called a $%&@head (LolZ) to making the same person cry (and gaining the respect of others) in an instance by sacrificing his own happiness for the happiness of others (who were around him)


Are there lessons which we can learn from this documentary when it comes to talking and dealing within our own community? (if somebody can kindly tell me and Hamzaahmaad123, what a 'Sanghee' is - would be a start!


Here is the documentary (part two is next week)


what was your opinion on this?




http://www.channel4....ord-british/4od



http://www.channel4....ord-british/4od

[The-Mughal-Sister]

There have been highly critical reviews of this programme in the news, some saying Bradford is British some saying it’s the all new Big Fat Gypsy Wedding in the Big Brother House.

I wouldn’t know how British Bradford is so I can’t say much about that, but a 2 part documentary can give a tiny insight, it won’t give an overall view and I don’t know why people expect a television programmes to do so much. It’s channel 4 who enjoy their reality hysterical drama unlike a non for profit organisation hoping to better relations within the community, it’s high power emotional sensationalized drama.

The documentary magnified the prejudices in people, even the 2 Muslims, Rashid and Sabbiyyah couldn’t come to an agreement and they were of the SAME faith, what does that go to show?!

An ex-policeman who makes jest of ‘Paki-bashing’ and expects other to laugh at his expeditions?! How original(!) He hasn’t given the police a good positive representation, no wonder the youth hold contempt for the police.

The highlight for me was Rashid, who at first was stubborn to pray his Salaah anywhere other than the Masjid, but when he bought Islam out of the Masjid and prayed in front of the group portraying his devotion and sincerity to his Lord it moved Moira, an upper class white woman, to tears. Beautiful. SubhanAllah!

Islam is beautiful, it teaches us to love our neighbours, encourages us to help one another not just your cousins and your family but the community as a whole. But we feel we have the patent for Islam, it’s just for us and we should practice it our local areas and not reach out to those who are willing to entertain and learn more about our religion. If we stopped for a second and think outside the box and initiated programmes for people as a whole this would bridge the gap, it would fill the vacuum of ignorance and help is all to live side by side peacefully.


It's a social experiment edited over 2 hours not the Holy Grail experiment of Bradford! I'm sure there are far decent, loving and caring people in Bradford.

What is a Sanghee? A dost, a freind, a brother. Naqshbandi's call one each other with this term to emphasize they are from the same silsila.

This post has been edited by The-Mughal-Sister: 02 March 2012 - 06:32 PM

[Mudassar-Rana]

it was quite a good programme, the gentleman with the beard was spot on with a lot of stuff - all in all a programme to make us look human for a change!

[Aljannah]

 Mudassar-Rana, on 02 March 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

it was quite a good programme, the gentleman with the beard was spot on with a lot of stuff - all in all a programme to make us look human for a change!

Salaam. Yes I watched it. Apart from it waking people up a little about how not to go around calling people Paki/Nigga etc and how our young Pakistani lads are going into pubs to get drunk. I don't think this will work at all. They need to be clear on what MORE they need us to do to integrate! We work, kids go school, we give them curry, and still we are not welcomed lol.

Well its not like that where I live. I make an effort to listen to my neighbours, talk to them etc. As long as I'm not neglecting my duties to Allah swt everything else is ok right? Oh n abiding by the law of the Land... come to think of it, do our taxes that category too?

If you start living for people, that's when you'll get it wrong. Your intentions to please Allah swt first should be there. Secondly look after your kids, know everything they are doing. Or just don't have any if you can't look after them.

Mhmm and lastly OMG what a waste if time?

[The-Mughal-Sister]

If British people who have lived in the UK for years failed some test set by the home office to prove your British-ness, what hope do immigrants have of passing it?

So the question I want an answer to is, What is British?

How does one prove they are British?

Having a cup of English tea, a cucumber sandwich and a scone?

This post has been edited by The-Mughal-Sister: 02 March 2012 - 09:04 PM

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

The most poignant moment of the programme was when the black lady said, something to the effect of 'do you see how only the Muslim guy is not integrating?' I thought her words were very true but after a bit of talk from the group the Bearded Guy Rashid shared more community time with the group and his prayers were more impressive then! Muslim Woman echoed my thoughts who I suspect follows a Sufi form of Islam while Rashid was probably a Salafi or to that affect-(Which is probably why they argued)

I wish Muslims would tear down preconceived ideas about other groups and see everyone as human, with equal rights and not as dirty 'Kafirs' who deserve nothing but our negligence. I think this kind of way is very wrong and has proved detrimental to community cohesion and lack fo respect for different race and religion has caused the grooming syndrome amongst Pakistani lads. No one is a lesser human and we as Muslims should do our best to integrate promoting Islam is difficult without it.

Other than that I mostly agree with TMS...the experiment is not proportionate to the whole community.

[Mudassar-Rana]

if we look at the basic situation - what are we as muslims and pakistani's doing in this country?

What is our purpose here?

Compare ourselves lets say to those muslim traders who went to indonesia and malaysia etc. We share one thing in common - there were economic reasons involved.thats where the similarities end!

Those traders took with them character, honesty, etiquettes etc. Apart from the migrations prior to the 1980's which really were carrots from the uk government for some cheap labour, the rest are either here through marriage (whether genuine or non)and others through mostly non genuine political asylum cases or non genuine educational purposes.

Hence there is insincerity at the root of our being here. Whereas those traders were sincere. Look at the effect the traders had on what was an alien people to them and naturally they were alien to the hosts.

Our ethics, morals, traditions, culture is pretty much alien to modern britain too. Yet we havent had anything like that sort of effect on the host community. Rather than give our younger generations are pretty much confused as to the situation they find themselves in and ended up taking a lot of the bad things from the host culture. The difficulties that we have in integrating are precisely from different outlooks on life. We should be setting the agenda - it doesnt have to be integration but it does have to be interaction.

Due to economic reasons in the main we dont entertain going back, so reality is that we are stuck here and we have to work out a way of getting on as communities. The older generation could get away with not intermingling but the youth cant. As a million strong community we cant all aspire to be taxi drivers or cheap takeaway owners. Change will never come from the top because the pakistani nor the indian (muslim) community have any sort of leadership. The leadership that exists is driven based on tribalism and sectarianism. Movement for change will have to come from the bottom.

The change starts with each and everyone of us - representing islam, is not about door knocking, or wearing arab clothes in a wintery climate its about actions, morals, etiquettes, the ability to forgive, the ability to touch people with our words and deeds. Enough of the money grabbing it is high time to give back to the wider community and leave a mark (positive one!).

[The-Mughal-Sister]

Excellent Post Rana Saab.

'It doesnt have to be integration but it does have to be interaction.'

How true!

[Mudassar-Rana]

 The-Mughal-Sister, on 02 March 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

Excellent Post Rana Saab.

'It doesnt have to be integration but it does have to be interaction.'

How true!

its a great feeling to be appreciated by those hailing from aristocratic backgrounds!

on a serious note - we have to make efforts. Islamic law doesnt say anything about ignorance being a virtue! someone try to explain to the salafi crew that arab dress in the middle of winter isnt really islam, and to the pakistani the shalwar kameez isnt islamic either! Take a long hard look sis and there isnt much that we do is islamic!!! the other day i got taken for a ride for 80 quid and when i rang the guy to say where's the money - oh im at a talk (islamic) at uni!

[Qadri-Jilani]

A lot is said about the need for Muslims to integrate but I'd like to ask why the same formula is not applied to parts of the "host" community who in many cases are not welcoming to people of different skin colour or background. To say that racism does not exist is to not acknowledge the elephant in the room. Did anyone not watch Question Time on Thursday and the horrid behaviour of David Starkey as evidence of this? ...and it's not the first time he's said things of this nature.

I know of many families in the 70s and 80s (might still exist today) who faced overt racial abuse from white neighbours and posting horrible things through the letter boxes (with some even trying to light fire to the house through the letter box), not to mention setting dogs on members of the household. This is something that stays with families as they get older and through to the next generation, and with such a distrust it's hard for people to reach out the white community. This is never talked about in any programmes discussing multi-culturalism and integration. When racial discrimination stops you will see more interaction (to use MR's word) and less likely to see things like the Bradford riots (of course the rioters were at blame too).

If you want integration and interaction it involves both communities not just one. And in communities where you find pleasant and welcoming people on both sides (Muslims and non-Muslim) you will see people getting along a lot better. In any case, if someone is too busy or wishes to remain private and not go around joyfully chatting with everyone on the street then that's totally their decision and not the business of anyone else, whether brown, black or white. Is it not a free society where people can live their lives how they want?

[badman]

Salams,

Very valid concerns pointed out by QJ! ......and M.R's point of interaction over integration will be examplified in this coming thursday's show, where (along with the rest) the Muslim sister is paired and invited by the landlady of the pub - lets see what happens (at the same time try not be judgmental on the character of the sister - yes she does seem to be serving alcohol but that has nothing to do with us - (We do not know her personaly) - as Isa A.S said "those of you who have not sinned throw the first stone"! Lets see how she gets treated by the 'host' (by the looks of things its not a happy one).

Some of those vile people remind me of those crowds which are in the film 'Braveheart' where Mel Gibson is being tortured and the people who are witnessing the torture are laughing, screaming and swearing towards the character of William Wallace. Those vile people in the pub resemble the vile people who are mocking Mel Gibson in that movie - very backward people!


@ M.R, its ok dont worry that guy was only showing his true muslimness.....huh!

[Khalid_the_Warrior]

I thinks the programme highlights very important point.....

The integration is a two way thing and doesn't not solely depends on the migrated communities.

What does integrated communities actually means anyway!!! in practical terms

[Aljannah]

Muslims can't have nawt all do with Alcohol. Saying that, I shouldn't judge? Okay... that girl is annoyingaaaah anyway. Too much OTT acting. (over the top) bollywood might have a place for her...

Cheque please

[Mudassar-Rana]

[size="4"]@ M.R, its ok dont worry that guy was only showing his true muslimness.....huh!


he actually coughed up bro 4 days later! and there were no threats involved!!!

[The-Mughal-Sister]

Part II: Living in each others lives.


Mohammed walked out of the show, Sabbiyah was insulted and humiliated in a pub full of drunken louts and Rashid saved Damon a few quid by helping him paint his house! Preposterous!

Each of the candidates were paired up with another individual and lived a day in each other’s lives, working with them, living with them and meeting the family.

Let’s start with Sabbiyah. People have said many negative points about her but I for one like her attitude, she’s a happy bubbly girl, always ready to muck in, have a laugh and accept people with an open mind and this time she went in too deep.

How is dressing up a Muslim girl in a Salwar kameez making her serve soft drinks and sitting her on the end of a bar to get insulted, humiliated and told by drunker punters her clothes are far too different for her ever to be British, all about?

It’s ridiculous! How could she stand by and allow this boorish drunken man say to her she should wear a mini skirt in order to fit in? Is that British-ness! Another drunken woman shouts, ‘she doesn’t fit in’
So, what do they want, she scantily clad herself, go out on the lash on Friday night, throw up into her hair and end up heels over head in some ambulance with no recollection of how she broke her ankle?!

The end result from this social experiment was the landlady was ready to plaster, ‘no racism allowed’ in her pub, when she was the biggest racist of them all!!

Damon learned from Rashid about family values, his theory on all Muslims are terrorists surprisingly diminished after he spent a few visits in the masjid watching them pray...and that’s all! Oh yes....Rashid is a monster..he has huge guns (muscles) See I did learn a lot!

Mohammed was outraged he was being forced to wash up by Moira, so not only is he prejudiced and not British he is also sexist believing only women should wash up. He shocked Moira as he tapped on the floor board to gain his wife’s attention as though she was a maid answering to her master’s call.
But the final straw came for Mohammed when he was residing in Moira’s home the camera crew posed a dangerous question about his Britishness and how far he would be willing to go for his Britishness if his daughter bought home a white man.
Aghast Mohammed proclaimed his Britishness should be about him and not his family as he values his honour over morals or lack of, I’m sure they got their answer when he walked out of Moria’s home and the show telling Channel 4 where they can stick their Britishness!

So well done Channel 4 for producing a show to up their ratings, stirring up a commotion in the papers and delivering naff all but televised drama to conjure up sponsors and revenue for advertisement!

Bradfordians be proud of yourself you don't need to be anything, just be yourself!

God save the Queen and all that....sing it yourself..I'm outta here!

This post has been edited by The-Mughal-Sister: 09 March 2012 - 05:21 PM

[Aljannah]

Lmho!

I'm so.glad I didn't watch it. It's brain numbing, idiotic and there to serve no real purpose. Causing fiction amongst the neighbours, breed hate into the Ummah, among themselves. It's basically, pigs running a show never which didn't even meet their own margin line, wasn't it supposed to enhance the community spirit, utter fail in serving its purpose. Close Down Channel4 ! totally crap channel. Noone even watches it. lol?

[Fekay]

Any person with a seroius purpose in life is NOT british. Dig deep enough and you'll understand that's the sole point of all this...

Don't be british, be a man on mission. Life is NOT for being british, it's for misssions.

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Thanks for the summary MS, Glad I didn't watch it.

I actually quite like Channel 4 for making documentaries that require our attention, even if sometimes it is over simplified. I wonder if any of you watched The killing fields of Sri Lanka, well there is more evidence to suggest Sri Lankan Government involvement in War crimes soon to be broadcast by Channel 4. I just felt it deserved defence for bringing certain matters to the forefront.

This post has been edited by Fatema-the-resplendent: 09 March 2012 - 08:23 PM

[The-Mughal-Sister]

 Fatema-the-resplendent, on 09 March 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Thanks for the summary MS, Glad I didn't watch it.

I actually quite like Channel 4 for making documentaries that require our attention, even if sometimes it is over simplified. I wonder if any of you watched The killing fields of Sri Lanka, well there is more evidence to suggest Sri Lankan Government involvement in War crimes soon to be broadcast by Channel 4. I just felt it deserved defence for bringing certain matters to the forefront.

The real documentaries like you mentioned and Unreported World are worth mentioning but these reality type social experiments are laughable!

I enjoy watching Unreported World, the half and hour passes too quickly.

This post has been edited by The-Mughal-Sister: 09 March 2012 - 09:14 PM

[sunniskeptic]

I watched the first part so far and it was quite interesting...Man, so glad I don't live in Bradford: it looks horrible--too many Pakis, mate! (obly kidding -- I am a Paki myself. Although I remember feeling distinctly uncomfortable once in Sparkbrook or Sparkhill when I went there once and seeing nothing but brown people everywhere. I thought, is this England?)

Seriously, that level of segregation is not healthy for community integration. It should be govt policy to mix community housing. I liked the girl with the
headscarf...although she appeared too sensitive....someone said she should have been in Bollywood...i agree!

I think if they did the same show with 6 different graduates (from good universities only, of course!) the outcome would be v different.
Lastly @QJ's point: generally the British are tolerant but as the minority and as immigrants the emphasis is more on us to integrate into
the host culture...
after all, we -- or our grandparents/parents made a conscious decision to come here...having said that most 3rd gen Muslims are fairly well integrated now.
The problem is with the extremists and the uneducated louts..

@ Starkey: I didn't watch QT but generally he is right even though it might be un-PC.