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Meelad-e-mustafa Inside A Hindu Temple Organised by Minhaaj ul Quran

Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:26 PM (#41) User is offline   JoeDacky 

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Salaam,

The Waabees are gonna love this one. A bidah act in a shirk environment.

Anyway, is it really worth trying to promote unity with our hindu neighbours, when at the same time it creates disunity in the Ummah? You just have to look at this thread to know what I mean. If the Hindus asked to come to the mosque and worship thier idols, and we refused, we would straight away be branded intolerant, unwelcoming, selfish. And if we allowed them the time and space to do it, we would be acting in contrast to what He (saaw) brought us. So why even step there when you know you're asking for trouble. Remember this ayah "la kum deeno kum, wa li yadeen." For you, your religion, for me my religion. You dont have to hate or be intolerant of other people or thier religions, but this dont mean you gotto bend over backwards to please them, whilst displeasing Allah (swt).

Somebody pointed out that you cant love God unless you follow Islam. I agree but would just like to add, that the even though non muslims bare love God,its not good enough unless they love what God loves and hate what He (swt) hates. They may be sincere, but are deluded in thier sincerity. There's no door to Allah (swt), other than the door of the Holy prophet (saaw) and thats final. No good celebrating his (saaw) Birthday unless you accept him to be the final messenger who came with the final testament. Otherwise there's no difference between these guys and Abu Lahab, who also celebrated the Mawlid.
Bol Raha Hai Tan Man Saara Ali Ali!
Hai Mastoon Ka Har Dam Nara Ali Ali!
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:48 PM (#42) User is offline   naqshbandihaqqani 

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***FINAL WARNING***

This post has been edited by YaNabi-Chemist: 19 February 2012 - 12:47 AM

O marvel! A garden amidst the flames! My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles, and a convent for Christian monks,A temple for idols, and the pilgrim's Ka'ba,
the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran. I follow the religion of Love: whatever way
Love's camels take, that is my religion and my faith.

-Ibn Arabi
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:15 PM (#43) User is offline   Brother_MGS 

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Imam-e-Waliyat Moula Ali Al Murtaza(KAW) destroyed idols in the Kaabah even standing on the blessed shoulders of RasoolAllah Sallalahu Alaiyhi WaAalihi Wassallam to destroy the idol on top of the Kaabah shaarif.

Ive read the posts about how many sufis of the past were for inter faith tolerance and promoted harmony. You have to remember that in the sub continent many muslim missionaries like Khawaja Sayyid Moyhudeen Ajmeri Chisthi(RA) set up camps in predominantly Hindu areas. These missionaries came into lands dominated by idol worshippers. To mix things up a bit more Id also like to add that a Wali of Allah is always an Aalim first. That means they are well versed in Shariah and the laws of Islam.

Rumi and many other known sufis may have called out and appealed to non believers to but they stayed within the realms of Islamic law. Ishq-e-Elahi and the forever chasing of it allowed them to accept other believers of God. But they were flag holders of the oneness of Allah.

Mawlid-un-Nabi is amongst the most happiest times in the Muslim calender. I find it particularly disturbing when Hindus celebrate such event. If the coming of RasoolAllah Salallahu Alaiyhi Wa Aalihi Wa Salaam brings joy to them to, why don't they accept the message he came with?

I could understand if it was Christians or even Jews celebrating such event. But Muhammad-e-Mustapha (SAWW) went out to destroy idols and establish the oneness of the Almighty. Isn't it ironic that idol worshippers celebrate at his birth now to?

What Minhaj Ul Quran are doing here runs very close to Towheen.

Dr Saab will probably release a lecture to defend such an event but the thing I want to know is wether the mission has been changed to interfaith harmony only?. We should have interfaith harmony especially living in a country like Britain but there are specific barriers that shall always be kept.

The only thing that comes to a sleeping man is dreams- Tupac Shakur
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:20 PM (#44) User is offline   gujjubond 

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View PostSlave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 18 February 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

***FINAL WARNING***


Just would like to inform you that this forum is not one of your FitnaPort.com where you guys can get completely naked and dance. This forum run with respect and manners. This forum has tolerances for other scholars even though they have difference of opinion. So use respective words for shaykh.

if moderators fail to observe some radical behavior than this forum won't different than fitnaport.com

This post has been edited by YaNabi-Chemist: 19 February 2012 - 12:48 AM

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:27 PM (#45) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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View Postgujjubond, on 18 February 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

Just would like to inform you that this forum is not one of your FitnaPort.com where you guys can get completely naked and dance. This forum run with respect and manners. This forum has tolerances for other scholars even though they have difference of opinion. So use respective words for shaykh.

if moderators fail to observe some radical behavior than this forum won't different than fitnaport.com


Valid concern. I'm going to bring this up immediately. Slave of two husayns, come on mate, tackle the issue not the man.
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:05 AM (#46) User is offline   YaNabi-Chemist 

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I will be issuing disciplinary action if hate mongering continues.

If you disagree with something then please make your points without the need to insult and spew out hate. It can't be that hard now can it?

I will not give out any further warnings nor will I follow up my actions with a courtesy PM.

Finally - Why are you people arguing anyway? Is anyone here actually qualified to argue a case? What we have here is a motley collection of various translated sayings copy and pasted from the net by a bunch of wannabies / sectarian zealots...garnished with snide, not so funny remarks.



This post has been edited by YaNabi-Chemist: 19 February 2012 - 12:16 AM

Feel free to PM me if you have any health issues / ailments.

Confidentiality will be maintained.
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:24 AM (#47) User is offline   qadrimuslim 

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I agree with the above sentiments. Dr Sahib should not be ridiculed on this forum. Using the term "Tahir Jhangvi" shows outright disrespect for a man well recognised in the Muslim world, and the Shaykh of many Muslims around the world. This type of ridiculing means your posts are disregarded by most as hate-filled rants of no value.

Minhaj ul Quran is a Sunni organisation and all Minhajis are Sunnis. A few months ago I asked the question to provoke the critics on this forum:
if Dr Sahib is such a deviant then are his mureeds deviants? Would you pray behind a Minhaji?
I pose this question again to SS and other 'haters' of Dr Sahib.

As for the topic.. then I also agree with the majority opinion here that this is plain wrong and will no doubt cause more rift between Sunnis. Just last year Dr Sahib and M-U-Q were gaining much support and publicity among the masses for promoting orthodox Sunni teachings and defending the azmat of the Sahaba Kiram (RA). Today we are seeing strange ideas and blunders which are impossible to defend.

My advice to our Minhaji brothers is to not turn your back on the masses but actually take on board constructive criticism. These days people have forgot the earlier blunders and are happy to move forward. People these days don't put their hands up when they make mistakes, so I don't expect Dr Sahib to either. But going forward these questionable interfaith activities need much deliberation and you should stick with the majority opinion and not marginalize yourself.

"The Sufi Must Submit to the Faqih" - Shaykh Ahmad Zurruq (RA)

Wa-la Ghalib Il-Allah "There is no Conqueror but Allah"
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:34 AM (#48) User is offline   qadrimuslim 

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and as for the Sufi debate - then all I can say is - What the hell has that got to do with this issue? Talk about going off on a tangent!

The sad truth is that 99.9% of those that claim to be Sufis, are absolutely devoid of any qualities of a Sufi! What we see today are electric shock "Sufis" or hatred spewing fatwa mongering "Sufis"

oh and don't forget the mullah mafia who are all claimants of Tariqa too! Can you believe it? Strange Sufis.

"The Sufi Must Submit to the Faqih" - Shaykh Ahmad Zurruq (RA)

Wa-la Ghalib Il-Allah "There is no Conqueror but Allah"
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:02 AM (#49) User is offline   gujjubond 

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I completely understand that why majority of users have freaked out on this event. But for me it's completely normal. Born and raised in India, and lived among Hindus around temples, these kind of events are very normal for me.

First Fazr Azan then Mandir Bell are very normal for Indian Muslims.

We have participated in each other festivals for long. Hindus love our Gyarwi shareef lungar. They are more attached to muslim Holy shrines than us.

These kind of interfaith are happening for years, even deobandis invite Pandits to their program.

Hindu leaders used to come in our Mosque inauguration ceremony.

Now since Salafism getting strong ground in india through Peace TV, and al quada ideology spreading, our barelwi brothers have also changed their ideology.

Plus enmity towards Dr Qadri and MQI has made our Barelwi Scholars more radicals.

listen below clip ... what sajjada nashin of Ajmer Sharif has to say on interfaith event ...



one can have difference of opinion about these interfaith dialogue Technic but one can not label it with Kufr.

Dr qadri gave 13 hrs arguments on ruling of blasphemy few months ago, don't we think that we can give him some credit that He knows whatever he is doing.
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:24 AM (#50) User is offline   Luhif 

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Its sad that people use Mevlana Rumi and Bulle Shah (May Allah be pleased with them) for their argument whenever the word "love" appears.Just last week we were using these great Sufis for our valantine love and now this.What next? we will call these polytheist people with their idols into our masjids for the sake of "unity and love"?

We indeed have become coca cola muslims.

"And that is the secret of this world. If you remove love of dunya from your heart, the dunya is yours for the taking. You can have the dunya because it’s in your hand and not in your heart" Shaykh Hamza Yusuf.
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:41 AM (#51) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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View PostLuhif, on 19 February 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

Its sad that people use Mevlana Rumi and Bulle Shah (May Allah be pleased with them) for their argument whenever the word "love" appears.Just last week we were using these great Sufis for our valantine love and now this.What next? we will call these polytheist people with their idols into our masjids for the sake of "unity and love"?

We indeed have become coca cola muslims.




Ju hit the nail on the head bro. Soon as the word love appears it's rumi this and rumi that, yet on both occasions the context hass been distorted to make Rumi fit.
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:16 AM (#52) User is offline   The-Mughal-Sister 

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View PostLuhif, on 19 February 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

Its sad that people use Mevlana Rumi and Bulle Shah (May Allah be pleased with them) for their argument whenever the word "love" appears.Just last week we were using these great Sufis for our valantine love and now this.What next? we will call these polytheist people with their idols into our masjids for the sake of "unity and love"?

We indeed have become coca cola muslims.



Rumi's poetry is not owned by any religion or caste, everyone is welcome to share in his poetry and what they believe love to be, that is why he reaches out to everyone and appeals to all sects, religion and even atheists, cos love is a language that sees no colour, caste of creed, it just is. That is why he is universal a concept most people cannot get their minds around!

Rumi is Rumi, a poet, a Sufi not a Prophet. The Prophet's word is what Muslims must go by, the Sunnah and the Quraan e Paak, not poetry.

“Your knowledge must improve your heart, and purge your ego.”

Imam Ghazzali RA
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:45 AM (#53) User is offline   The-Mughal-Sister 

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View PostKnow-The-Ledge, on 19 February 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

Ju hit the nail on the head bro. Soon as the word love appears it's rumi this and rumi that, yet on both occasions the context hass been distorted to make Rumi fit.


Since you and Luhif cannot let go of the issue, let me elaborate, Rumi's poetry especially, is shared all over the world, by people from all different backgrounds, what are you gonna argue with every single Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Atheists that Rumi doesn't fit that genre?

His poetry speaks to different people in different ways, such are his words, yes he may be from a Muslim background, but you can't stop people applying his poetry in different situations and days.

A Bollywood film has also used his poetry, shall we start a protest against the industry?
Reclaim back his words?

Poetry is a langauge that you cannot contain in a box, you can't claim it to one faith, or background, everyone from all over will see it and experience is, and this is a good thing, why are you turning it into a negative point?

Such are the masters of Sufisim that they break all boundaries, a search for the 'self', a fight for the soul, to liberate oneself.

“Your knowledge must improve your heart, and purge your ego.”

Imam Ghazzali RA
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:10 AM (#54) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View PostThe-Mughal-Sister, on 19 February 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:


A Bollywood film has also used his poetry, shall we start a protest against the industry?
Reclaim back his words?



Please don't divert this topic. It's definitely not about Rumi or his poetry. And you have already answered above question "Rumi is a poet, a Sufi not a Prophet".

For Allah's sake, do not bring my Prophet Sallallahu Alieh Wassalam down to a poet or a Sufi.

Ma'salam


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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:29 AM (#55) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View Postqadrimuslim, on 19 February 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:


I pose this question again to SS and other 'haters' of Dr Sahib.



How does asking some questions or criticizing his acts make us 'haters' of Dr Sahib?

Ala Hazrat and many other condemned Hazrat Amir Muawiyah's acts and called him a rebel and a great Imam of Hadith has said, it would be enough (for him)even if he gets his neck free on judgement day, you Syrians, asking me to describe his virtues?... Are they all 'haters' of Hazrat Amir Muawiyah?

Secondly, we cannot force users to write long list of titles before scholar's names, to please their followers. Many users kept calling Pir Irfan Shah Sahib, as Irfan Bhiki or Irfan and Imam khomini as just Khomini. Unfortunately, they have successfully spoiled this community.


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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:32 AM (#56) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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View PostThe-Mughal-Sister, on 19 February 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:


Rumi's poetry is not owned by any religion or caste, everyone is welcome to share in his poetry and what they believe love to be, that is why he reaches out to everyone and appeals to all sects, religion and even atheists, cos love is a language that sees no colour, caste of creed, it just is. That is why he is universal a concept most people cannot get their minds around!

Rumi is Rumi, a poet, a Sufi not a Prophet. The Prophet's word is what Muslims must go by, the Sunnah and the Quraan e Paak, not poetry.




Sister you right but if you read his masnavi maanvi 6 books in detail etc his 99% poetry based on quran and hadis and he tries to teach us quraan sunnah hadis religion etc through his real poetry and he is not only a sufi poet and the knowledge he got we cant compare with many and his poetry you and me will never understand what he meant.

His prose work may we understand .
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:01 PM (#57) User is offline   Brother_MGS 

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You can't use sufism to defend this interfaith celebration thing. Rumi's poetry does appeal to many different faiths etc. But at the end of it Rumi was first and foremost an Aalim in Islam then a Saint. He was well grounded in the boundries and laws of Islam.

People think of Sufism as a liberal, hippy type branch of Islam. Sufism is nothing without Shariah, Sufism is nothing with out knowledge of Islam, Sufism is nothing without the frameworks provided. When you get some sort of understanding in Deen-e-Mustapha are you only able to follow the path of Sufism.

The only thing that comes to a sleeping man is dreams- Tupac Shakur
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:34 PM (#58) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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View PostThe-Mughal-Sister, on 19 February 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:


Since you and Luhif cannot let go of the issue, let me elaborate, Rumi's poetry especially, is shared all over the world, by people from all different backgrounds, what are you gonna argue with every single Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Atheists that Rumi doesn't fit that genre?

His poetry speaks to different people in different ways, such are his words, yes he may be from a Muslim background, but you can't stop people applying his poetry in different situations and days.

A Bollywood film has also used his poetry, shall we start a protest against the industry?
Reclaim back his words?

Poetry is a langauge that you cannot contain in a box, you can't claim it to one faith, or background, everyone from all over will see it and experience is, and this is a good thing, why are you turning it into a negative point?

Such are the masters of Sufisim that they break all boundaries, a search for the 'self', a fight for the soul, to liberate oneself.



Jazak'Allah for the biography and analysis of the span of Rumi's influence, but we're not criticising Rumi or his works, but merely questioning the use of his poetry to justify 'love' in any form; yet as Piara Madinah pin-points, Rumi's writings are 99% based on Qur'an and Hadith; the world and its fire-worshippers can love Rumi but Rumi loved RasoolAllah (S). Rumi is not 'free of boundaries' as Brother MGS alludes he is bound by Shari'ah and obedience to it; his poetry is bound by law first and then this peace, daisy chain making and 'love for all' jump-off.

I don't fully understand what you are saying that we're 'turning negative'? The heart realises things in many different ways, it's the 'law of angles' and the non-muslim is free to realise how they see fit the poetry of Rumi, but as muslims we realise it in confluence with the source his poetry is based on - RasoolAllah (S). If his poetry is realised in a way which contravenes RasoolAllah, then it's worth is derogated and power negated; and that's all me and Luhif are saying, that if Rumi's poetry is used in a way to justify actions that are contrary to RasoolAllah, then the poetry is moot and it's citation is pointless, as you say yourself, Rumi is not a Prophet! You've realised Rumi incorrectly if you think we understand him the same as a non-muslim, we don't and his writings are bound by law, they don't abrogate them.

Justifying Valentines by quoting how Rumi was about love?
Justifying this juxtaposition between RasoolAllah and idols citing Rumi and how he was about love?

I think you're feeling that we are disliking Rumi? Not quite and that's quite non-sensical, as DS say's, we are merely putting Rumi in his place of ascendency and placing RasoolAllah and his counsel back at the top.

This post has been edited by Know-The-Ledge: 19 February 2012 - 01:35 PM

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:36 PM (#59) User is offline   Fekay 

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Great points made by brothers especially DS and MGS and KTL AND SIS PM. Personally I think it's a great disservice to the saint when his works are used to justify gutter material. The OP's point of discussion was about the status of Gumbad-e-Hazra aligned to that of idols and shirk material. Nothing to do with loving or hating hindus and the 'long discussion' about Saint Rumi? LOL, that's gotta be a merit in itself!

Mabye people can get back on topic since the thread was clearly misdirected from the very begining when the 'point of discussion' was thrown aside and the talk on Prophet(SAW) mercy was bought in; even tho it doesn't make much sense to what being mercy to mankind has anything to do with muslims aligning it's status to that of idols.

Further more; this is exactly what the pagans of Makka believed. They did acknowledged Allah as a deity but just NOT the supreme one; along with all the other Idols.I think theres much depiction going on here!

Anyway, if this stuff carries on, it's the doors to great evil(fitna) being opened here; we sunnis already suffer from ignorants visitng and worshipping graves. AND NOW, we have the hindu/muslim temple milaad! If many of us here are SO against the commercializing of milaad then where does this 'farce of a situation' fit in? Dhool bangra, with idols in a temple praising the prophet(SAW)? What next? Pakistani khusray visitng houses on milad, dancing and singing naats? Call it cultural harmony, quote Rumi to justify the act and all is well eh. DISGUSTING!

This is explicitly sick and doubtful event; it's natural for people to hate such evil! It's the opening to greater fitna's which will be referanced to DR shaib and MUQ. Then these guys will come forward and blame the people for lack of education and ignorance.

.
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:42 PM (#60) User is offline   hidayah227 

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Send him a PM asking for it!

This post has been edited by Desert-Sheikh: 19 February 2012 - 02:50 PM

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