[sunniskeptic]

I do not support an attack by the West on Iran but to blame the Saudis for egging the USA on is silly and naive. Someone rightly
said it is in the Saudi National Interest. Therefore as far as they are concerned it is a good thing for them. And if you think the Iranians are
angels you are living in a dream world. They hate the Saudis as much and to pretend the Sunni-Shia angle isn't significant is to again be naive of
history and recent politics. With the overthrow of Saddam, Iraq has become a de facto Shia state and with an aggressive Iran, pro-Iranian Lebanon,
Shia-ruled Syria, and majority-Shia Bahrain too it is natural the Saudis feel threatened by a resurgent Iran. Nothing personal, just politics.

If I was King Abdullah I too would do what was in my country's national interest just as the UK, USA, Pakistan and Iran do. None of them
really give a fig about the Ummah. It's all about national interest.

As to the original question, the ASWJ will not do anything of note but what they could and should do is join forces with the Anti-War marches and
Stop the War Coalition (although these protests have zero effect on policy as history shows e.g. Iraq War!)

Iran has a right to own nuclear weapons just as any other nation does and Iran only looks after its own interests and is happy to kill/stab other muslims
in the back whenever it needs to and so I don't see why other nations should act so differently. Just last week the Iranian border guards
killed and shot dead six Pakistani civilians.

I have many Iranian friends and love the culture and language but I would support an attack on Iran if it was in Pakistan's National Interest.
Some one said countries only have national interests and not friends.

We'd do well to remember it.
Sadly, I think Iran will get bombed/attacked and there isn't much they or anyone else can do. The Iranians have themselves to blame too
for isolating themselves and supporting people like Hizbollah and Syria's vile regime. The sooner this mullah regime is overthrown the better for
Iran. Trust me, most Iranians do not like the regime. On a more selfish level as a Pakistani, under the Shah Pakistan had very close relations
with Iran but since the mullahs have come into power our relationship with them has cooled significantly since they have supported anti-Pakistan
factions in Afghanistan and preferred India to us.

I don't see why people are crying crocodile tears over them for. You reap what you sow and if you act uppity you will get knocked
down a peg or two.

[Mudassar-Rana]

 Desert-Sheikh, on 06 February 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Wo Nabuwat Hey Musalman Key Liey Barg-e-Hashish
Jiss Nabuwat Mein Nahi Quwat-o-Shaukat Ka Pegham
(Hazrat Allama Iqbal)

PS: Modern Sufism and Mullah Mafia have become a curse for us.

no doubt whatsoever. The fault lies with us though as we disconnected with the lord brought in intermediaries between us and our lord, and between us and our rasool s.a.w. We justified this murder of deen by comparing our rabb and rasool s.a.w with post men and motorways - and we expect that people should afford us sympathy upon this violent death of the ummah?

Erm no - sorry mate!

Britain is truly a great country - why? Because it puts the interests of its own people secondmost after its establishment. It does not give a hoot about any other people and with a capitalist world view - why should it? It owes no duty of care to anyone but itself. And hence it is rightly proud of its thousand year longevity.

The educated and those with fikr of the ummah are at the forefront complaining of the israeli conspiracy or the anglo american conspiracy or the europeans or herzel etc.
Since the moment Adam a.s son conspired against his own brother to murder him it has continued and will do so. What matter is our reaction. And so far - nothing. A big zilch. Look around you over the last few years Sudan was split, Libya was conquered, Egypt has a new improved dictatorship, Nigeria is being destabilised, Afghanistan and Pakistan have been put through torture, Syria and Iran are the next on the hitlist. What makes anyone with an ounce of intelletual honesty, an ounce of moral courage think that this is about sunni or shia or wahabbi? The ulema are not sent from the skies they are from within us and you get those that you deserve do our amal deserve the likes of imam jaafar or abu hanifa?

Will anything change? Should we dream of change? Should we wait for the time that the ulema hold conferences for the affairs of the ummah? Was rasool s.a.w just about trouser lengths and beard lengths? Was he s.a.w just a moral and personal revolutionary? Should we even care that rasool allah s.a.w wrote to rulers of foreign lands? Should we even care that the treaty of hudaybiah was a masterpiece in foreign relations?

Now to the more pertinent questions:

What is the size of the true sunni jamat in timbuktu?

Who held the largest milad procession?

Which is better Tableeghi Jamaat or Dawat e islami?

Or is madonna better than Lady Gaga?

[qalam]

lam

so what you are saying is that British muslims especially aswj will not do anything.


My analysis


I beleive that ASWJ will be forced into action when they see the likes of other non sunni groups being active such as mcb etc etc.

This is the typical knee jerk reaction crytaliised in tge age old adage closing the barn door after the horse has left.

Further more certain ulema will jump on the bandwagon to make up for their drop in PREVENT government funding by singing the governments tune


dr aq

[warea]

Nothing will happen. Iran will pretend like nothing has happened. Going to war is mutual self destruction which the Ayotallahs and Rabbis won't want. Israel will apply all sorts of pressures to crumble Iran from within. This nuclear scare seems to be a tactic to initiate sanctions. The goal seems to be sanctions rather than some nuke threat. And sanctions leading to weakening economy and internal grumblings. Such issues will be tapped onto to conduct regime change with support of those liberal young turds, closet atheists, zorastrians, jundullah and other opposition groups. Its confirmed that Israel is arming the so called Sunni group Jundullah. Similarily they would try to drag Iran into a war with some neigbour.

Look back and see how ottomon empire fell. Iran is one of the only countries today proudly raising the banner of Islam no matter how much we hate shiaism. It is one of the Muslim countries producing great number of intellectuals. A collapse of Iran at this stage might be moral collapse for those wanting revival of Islamwhile morale boost for islam hating kaffirs.

In the end, Allah is the best of planners and taqwa in Allah would be the real decider of events and eventual victory.

[piara-madinah]

 Fatema-the-resplendent, on 06 February 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

How sad that Iran will be attacked and there is no one to help them.

The Saudi's will be busy allowing use of their land for the air strikes. I think Muslims Worldwide should stop going for Umra and Hajj to protest.

If they protest and stop for few months going for umras , saudies will bend there knees and beg peoples to come and stop giving there air for strikes etc and they will think twice in future.If people unite and stop going for hajj the saudies will never help non muslims because there biggest bussiness is hajj and umrah.

[piara-madinah]

 Wasim., on 06 February 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

instead of stop going for Umra and Hajj to protest. i think musalmano ko protest karne ke liye dusra tarika sochna chaiye

she is suggesting that only for a month or hajj postponed for a year not asking for ever .

[The-Mughal-Sister]

 piara-madinah, on 09 February 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

she is suggesting that only for a month or hajj postponed for a year not asking for ever .

Off Topic:

Well, hello Piara Madinah.

Where have you been?

I've missed your pink rose blended in with rants.

Hope your well

[farookhasan]

Eat halwa and enjoy the show like we did with Afghanistan , Iraq, Libya, Somalia, and Pakistans super drone killings

[Mystic]

Who knows maybe they will have a Battlefield version game of the future war. Also, they can make one for Iraq and Afghanistan.

[sunniskeptic]

On second thoughts why should ASWJ do anything? Where were the Iranians when Iraq was being dismantled? That's right, they were 100% behind the USA and her Allies
in getting rid of Saddam so they could put their own Shia brethren in power. They have done that ever since the Safavids took over Iran in the 17th century. I love Iran and its
culture but it was much better for everyone--including Iranians--when they didn't have these mad ayatollahs in power. Bring back the Shah!

You should watch Persepolis by Marjam Satrapi to see what it is like under the Ayatollahs.

[technocore]

 Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 13 February 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

On second thoughts why should ASWJ do anything? Where were the Iranians when Iraq was being dismantled? That's right, they were 100% behind the USA and her Allies
in getting rid of Saddam so they could put their own Shia brethren in power. They have done that ever since the Safavids took over Iran in the 17th century. I love Iran and its
culture but it was much better for everyone--including Iranians--when they didn't have these mad ayatollahs in power. Bring back the Shah!

You should watch Persepolis by Marjam Satrapi to see what it is like under the Ayatollahs.

I am not a Mullah Fan brother but we have all varities of governments democracy, monarchy, Mullah rule in muslim majority counties .... but apparently none seems to be better than the other. Shia or Sunni does not change the nature of oppression. Our common problem is not faith but worldly lust & greed.

[qadrimuslim]

 Slave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 13 February 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

On second thoughts why should ASWJ do anything? Where were the Iranians when Iraq was being dismantled? That's right, they were 100% behind the USA and her Allies
in getting rid of Saddam so they could put their own Shia brethren in power. They have done that ever since the Safavids took over Iran in the 17th century. I love Iran and its
culture but it was much better for everyone--including Iranians--when they didn't have these mad ayatollahs in power. Bring back the Shah!

You should watch Persepolis by Marjam Satrapi to see what it is like under the Ayatollahs.

This is an unfair observation

I agree that the Shia stupidly enjoyed the fall of Saddam (and thus the breakup of Iraq) and they celebrated when they got their filthy hands on him and executed him like uncivilised mob - However, I seriously doubt the Iranian authorities were in bed with USA and her allies.

The Safavids rose to power in Iran in the early 16th Century - not the 17th Century. 1501 to be precise, under Shah Ismail who was a die hard Shi'i who managed to convert the Sunni Sufis of Iran to Shia'ism after the decline of the Sunni Timurid Dynasty.
As much as I dislike them, it is dishonest to accuse the Safavids alone of making alliances with the kuffaar without mention that the other Empires (that happen to be Sunni) had already made those alliances before the Safavids came into existence. I won't lecture you but look into gunpowder warfare, use of the European model in the army, history of the East India Company etc etc.


You say bring back the Shah! I would rather not! What is needed in the Middle East is:

- Muslim forces to co-operate with one another. The ideological differences we so emphasise will stand for nothing on the day of Qiyamah.
- The Reversal of the Arab National movement which has divided the Arabs into mini feuding states.
- A unified currency such as Gold coins (Dirham and Dinar) forcing the rest of the world to pay for oil with Gold, not paper.
- Fair and proper distribution of wealth with growth in self-extraction of natural resources - to include Oil, Gas and Hyrdo technology.
- Development of a robust economy not based on the European (Rothschild) Fractional-reserve banking model - which is the cause of today's financial crisis.
- Development of their own military and conventional technology and not i) rely on the West ii) pay the West filthy amounts of money. Just look at Pakistan, probably the only (poor) Muslim country to develop its own weapons from small arms to helicopters, fighter planes and nukes.
- Freedom of information and implementation of anti corruption mechanisms on a large scale.
- Reinvestment in Research.

My above suggestions are nothing new. The forces-to-be have already recognised the disaster it would cause for their domination of World Order if these things occurred and are willing to start WW3 to stop them happening.

[Mudassar-Rana]

Bro Qm a unified Gold dinar is a challenge to dollar supremacy - its wrong to think that the americans will allow you to do it without a response!

Regardless of shia/sunni history - facts remain that until we wipe the slate clean one by one you will be picked off. A drone or b52 doesnt re-arrange according to shia or sunni.

Iran has played a double game and supported american interests in the region - those interests which coincided with their own. In Afghanistan it supported the americans against sunni taliban and in iraq it quelled shia resistance and pushed them into government allowing the americans an easier time. However the iranians have done what other muslim nations have done sided with the kuffar for their own short term interests - knowing that the only thing more dangerous than american enmity is its friendship. Sooner or later the american beast will turn on them. This has happened to Afghanistan which was an ally against the soviets. It has happened to Pakistan which since the death of Liaquat Ali Khan has been an american ally.

Leadership is never in the short term or the easy route - it is always long term and always the difficult path. It will take a brave leader to think long term and for the sake of the ummah - in that will lie its own interests if only they could see it!

Solutions as ever lie in the seerah of master s.a.w if only people could see.

[objective-enquirer]

there is no such thing as sunnis. it is all politics. the rulers are politicians. they do not belong to a sect in their politics. if sunnis were an entity in politics then there are 58 muslim countries; there would have been atleast a single sunni state in the world. so let us not fool our selves there is no such thing as sunni. take Pakistan for example: take your question "If Iran Is Attacked What Would Ahlus Sunna Wal Jaamaat Do?" what non-sense, what has ahlus sunna done in Pakistan, nothing. they are a bunch of incompetent halwa eating people if you mean sunni=mullaz.

dont fool yourself. if Israel attacks Iran then they will not attack sunni/shia, they will be attacking muslims. saddam hussain was a tyrant and killer of innocent people so dont pretend under this pretext. the arab states today are puppets being controlled by Israel thorugh USA. you are talking about Iran, which has not happened, what has these 'SUNNIS' done for Palestine???? what have Saudis, etc. done for Palestine? when USA has vetoed 48 UN resolutions in favour of Israel on Palestine...what have they done??
frankly, whether you zealot sunni brillowees like or not...there is only one muslim country in the world which has its own independent foreign policy and that is IRAN. so let us disagree with the iranian shia on matters of aqeeda but as muslims, they are the only ones who deserve our respect for NOT being a stooge of USA like saudis, pakistanis, etc. which in affect means Israel.

ahmed deedat on iran:



documentry part one about the man who changed the world. bring one like him first then talk.

This post has been edited by objective-enquirer: 14 February 2012 - 03:17 AM

[Mudassar-Rana]

Very true @ br OE.

Unfortunately the sunni's have not produced one khomeini. There have been many mujahids for example in bosnia, palestine or afghanistan but no khomeini - i.e a man with a vision wide enough to encompass the welfare of a people.

Dont know whats so good about the halwa but it seems to have many admirers.

[warea]

Khomeinism will only work for a time scale until its Burns out. What ahlus sunnah should do is what Quran , sunnah and righteous predecssors of the past tells us to do. Does it permit us to make alliance with kuffar over a people of bidat? Does it allow us to defend a man of bidat over a kuffar?

[objective-enquirer]

Quote

Khomeinism will only work for a time scale until its Burns out.

very interesting claim. I am not 'arguing' with you brother but please enlighten us all about how you arrived at that conclusion. it makes sense historically because in Islam, there has been only one khilafat and that khilafat e rashida and all the rest was injustice and self interest based on dynastic principles.

[Mudassar-Rana]

 warea, on 14 February 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Khomeinism will only work for a time scale until its Burns out. What ahlus sunnah should do is what Quran , sunnah and righteous predecssors of the past tells us to do. Does it permit us to make alliance with kuffar over a people of bidat? Does it allow us to defend a man of bidat over a kuffar?

What you say is true about anything and everything. Even the raashid period of khilafat only lasted 30 years!

No one is saying that we agree with imam khomeini or even Fidel Castro or chairman Mao - but these people brought revolutions and protected their nations.

I dont think anything such as ASWJ exists (in deen) - it is a created thing to ensure maulvi's can fill their boots. So in that sense to expect goodness and vision from them is folly - and nothing will come of it.

To speak against injustice is a human duty and foremost a momin duty (nothing to do with cliques). A beautiful and at the same time worrying hadith was quoted by orya maqbool jan regarding when muslims stop forbidding evil allah was grant us the worst leaders and even if the good people do dua allah wont listen. And that is the crux of the matter to speak out against wrong - it is bigger than shia/sunni/salafi/brelvi/deobandi etc. To the pentagon ur all the same!

[warea]

Good point. In that speaking against injustice is part of the deen and thereby the side to support would also be clarified through it.

[sunniskeptic]

QadriMuslim -- a good post and lots of nice suiggestions. Sadly its all idealistic and will never happen.

MR -- good analysis of Iran's double game. Hence, I got no sympathy for them beyond what I'd have for any nation about to be bombed.

OE-- I am surprised by your support for Khomeini. What has he actually done to benefit the Iranian people? He killed tens of thousands once he came into
power -- anyone who opposed him was wiped out. He used Islam for political power to instigate mullah rule and because of his stupidity and greed he made
his country an international pariah. I have actually read all the English language biographies of him and he did have some interesting ideas and his achievement at a political
level of creating a theocratic state was something admirable (though what he turned it into was not.) Yes, he was sincere and learned but he was also power-mad and a lot of
more Senior Shia ulema vehemently disagreed with him -- like Montazeri. Yes, the Shah was corrupt and a stooge but he was overall good for his people despite SAVAK.
What have been Khomeini's achievements? Since his Islamic Revolution came into power how much has Iran helped the Muslim world (except for Shias)? Where was Iran when
Bosnians were being slaughtered? Where was Iran during both Gulf Wars (supporting America tacitly). Where was this great Muslim ruler when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan?
It was the Arab nations and Pakistan along with the USA who defeated the USSR. Iran was too busy supporting its Shia stooges, the Hazara. What about when the Taliban were attacked?
Again, only supporting Shia. They only support Hizbollah because they are Shia and are practically an offshoot of Iran. Hizbollah and Amal have probably killed more Sunnis in Lebanon
since the 1980s then the Israelis ever did. They also supported the vile dog Hafiz al Assad when he killed 20, 000 Sunni Muslims in one day in 1982 called Black September. Why didn't Khomeini say
why are you killing Muslims who only want an Islamic state? Everyone knows they supported the US and Shia militias in wiping out Sunnis from large swathes of Baghdad by using proxies
like Muqtada al Sadr. And I am not one of those Sunnis who does blanket takfir of all Shias but the kufr of Khomeini is pretty much clear. Anyone who reads his works -- which have been translated
by Hamid Algar amongst others-- and calls themselves a Sunni will never support someone who says that 'when the Imam comes the first thing he will do is to dig up the bodies of Abu Bakr and Umar (radhi Allahu anham) and hang them from the nearest tree! Or the sick man who gives the following fatwa that temporary marriage is allowed with even an infant and who sexually assaulted the 4 year old daughter of his host!




It is even in his published fatawa! Yet you say, 'bring someone like him?' Even his imaan is in doubt and you consider him a great leader?!

I should also say that, purely as a Pakistani, the Shah even allowed Pakistani fighter jets to land and refuel in Iran during our wars with India whereas
since the Revolution Iran has been much more pro-India and actively causing fitnah in Baluchistan and being openly anti-Pakistan in Afghanistan. In Iran
itself Sunnis are persecuted (despite the rhetoric of Sunn-Shia unity they spout in public) and are not even allowed to build their own mosques. I had an Iranian
student who was Sunni last year and his father was wealthy so he had a mosque built. Overnight the Shia authorities bulldozed it!

--
Yes you are right that our maulvis will not do anything constructive--but they never have and why should they put their necks out for Iran anyway?
BTW I am astonished that on a Sunni forum some people in their love for Khomeini (who I believe to have been one of the lesser dajjals) have suggested
there is no such thing as "Ahlus Sunnah"!! If there is no Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaat why are you Sunni then?

To conclude, I don't WANT the USA to bomb Iran because of the innocent people who will be killed but I think the sooner this Shia mullacracy falls the better for the region.
I definitely don't want Iran to have the bomb but I think Pakistan should have good relations with Iran in areas which are of national interest to both sides.

You know what the biggest obstacle to a Muslim EU-like structure would be? Iran. They would never want all Sunni countries united under one banner with a dinar or dirham as a currency.

Here is the actual quote from Khomeini's book,
Ayatollah Khomeini in his book of sayings: ‘Tahrir al Wasilah’:

Quote

‘A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.’

[ Ruhollah Khomeini, Sayings of the Ayatollah Khomeini: Political, Philosophical, Social, & Religious (“The Little Green Book”) [Bantam Books, September 1985, New York/London. ISBN 0553140329]