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Why Aren't Non Muslims Allowed To Celebrate Their Festivals In Hijaz/ Saudi Arabia

Posted 26 December 2011 - 11:50 AM (#1) User is offline   qalam 

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Salam
I just came back from Makkah and was sitting in the KSU office when a thought came to my mind.


As i landed at Riyadh airport from Jeddah on Christman eve i wondered why non Muslims are not allowed to celebrate their religious festivals in this country?

Does Islam prohibit one from expression of ones religion in public? i.e. Why can't Christians celebrate Christmas in Saudi?


During my days at university studying Chemistry and especially Organic chemistry i was often bombarded by various theories that we were expected to beleive in, in order to understand a particular point. Surely if a theory or hypothesis is true then it should be able withstand any onslaught, test, accusation or experiment levied against it.

But Islam is not a theory but rather a fact but why are Muslims that are living in a self induced coma of 'Islam is a utopia' but on the same hand they prohibit actions that might challenge Islam and threaten take away the Muslims from the straight path i.e. Islam, onto the devils path i.e. Another religion?

This leads nicely onto why does Islam or Muslims nt allow non Muslims to practice their faith openly and publicly -confining them to the innermost sanctums of their homes.

In essence my question is why are non Muslim not allowed to practise their own religion in the hijaz post conquest of makkah and now in the 21st century?

Dr AQ
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:04 PM (#2) User is offline   warea 

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Saudi is 100% Muslim and non Muslims are immigrants.

The excuse used to prevent them celebrating is that allowing it implies Muslims are allowing Kufr and thereby the muslim becomes Kafir. I know its sad logic. But that's their case.
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:08 PM (#3) User is offline   The-Mughal-Sister 

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Brother Qalaam, firstly Umra Mubarak

Secondly, I'm sure you know there is a BIG difference of what Islam permits and what the Saudi Govt permits. Once people understand the two are poles part, Islam will have a better perception in the eyes of the world, at the moment Muslims alike and such Govt are doing a terrible job.

“Your knowledge must improve your heart, and purge your ego.”

Imam Ghazzali RA
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:20 PM (#4) User is offline   qalam 

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Salam


Thanks for your heart felt warmth and kind congratulations on what i hope to be the first of many such trips InshAllah


I understand that Saudi is a Muslim country but the systemnatic expulsion of Non Muslims was started by the early Muslims after the conquest of Makkah by the Prophet Muhammad Alay hissalam.

My point is that why were non Muslim expelled and why are they not allowed to practise freely their faith.

As i said before any theory has to be openly challenged and attackedor at least pushed to the limit in order to be able to standthe test of time, test and tempremant of mankind. - Thus why Islam so special that it is not allowed to be callenged in such an atmosphere that is 100% totally Muslim/ Islamic.

If islam i so strong and robus why were the non Muslims expelled from Arabia and why are they not allowed to practise their faith?


Dr AQ
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:28 PM (#5) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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Umrah kerny kay baad insan itna realxed hota hay or hapy kay few days dunia ki koi soch atty hi nahe hay or app ik dum yeh sab soch rahy hain is kay sochny ko umer pary hay.

shai christmas to woh son of god ki celebration kerty hain baqi xmas hulla gulla hay bachoon or baron kay gifts etc lakin jub islam main son of god hay hi nahe to koi bhi muslim yeh swal kaey to us kay dimagh per shaq ho esay to rooz ik big celebration hoo her rooz kisi na kisi kay religion ky founder ki birthday hoo .

hazrat isa ah ki wiladat manany say saudia bhi mana nahe kary ga lakin son of god ki celebration ki na sirf saudia pakistan main bhi mumanait honi cahiyee or ilaan hona cahiyee kay nabi ki wiladat manaoo na kay Allah kay bety ki.

Welcome back bhai boht mubarak hoo hum sab ko dua main yaad to rukha ho ga .
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:11 PM (#6) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View Postqalam, on 26 December 2011 - 11:50 AM, said:

Salam
I just came back from Makkah and was sitting in the KSU office when a thought came to my mind.


As i landed at Riyadh airport from Jeddah on Christman eve i wondered why non Muslims are not allowed to celebrate their religious festivals in this country?



After coming back from Umrah, is this what you got to share at YaNabi.com??

You have a tendency to repeat your pointless questions and you never dare to comment when your pointless inquiries are answered. You posted something similar last year and I think we have discussed it in detail but here you go again.

Anyway, non-Muslim are free to practice their faith in Saudi Arabia. They (visitors/workers) cannot build place of worship because 100% population of the country is Muslim but they are free to 'worship and celebrate' in their homes, compounds and even arrange events in the hotels. I am the witness of Hindu and Christian festivals in Saudi Arabia but i would like you to read this paragraph written by Hume Horan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

When 1 was in Riyadh we threw one heck of a Christmas party in the courtyard of the Embassy. A huge Christmas tree was put up, we sang carols, and the broader American community had a first-class time. The issue of Saudi sensibilities came up, but only briefly. I said it was perfectly normal that Americans should celebrate their Christmas on or about December 25 on American soil. I heard not a peep from the Saudis after the fact.

As far as 'public display' is concerned, Non-Muslims are not 'the only exception', Saudi regime even doesn't allow fellow Muslims to celebrate religious festivals publicly. Any one who has common sense can easily understand the difference between Islamic-Laws and A Country's Laws.

PS: Please keep your thoughts to yourself.

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:35 PM (#7) User is offline   qalam 

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View PostDesert-Sheikh, on 26 December 2011 - 03:11 PM, said:



PS: Please keep your thoughts to yourself.



salam

first of all it doesnt matter where i went or where i came from.

Why should i have to share anything with anyone regarding m trips or trips.


Secondly who made you the thought police? Is this what your islam wants - to control the thoughts of people and stifle free expression no matter how nice/ anhorent ones views?


You still have not been able to answer my main point in that why arent non Muslims allowed to openly practide their faith in Saudi or the hijaz.

Please dont get personal and keep the debate objective and not subjective

by the way i am not running away from this debate as it is very important.

dr aq
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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:11 AM (#8) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View Postqalam, on 26 December 2011 - 11:50 AM, said:

Salam
I just came back from Makkah and was sitting in the KSU office when a thought came to my mind.


As i landed at Riyadh airport from Jeddah on Christman eve i wondered why non Muslims are not allowed to celebrate their religious festivals in this country?

In essence my question is why are non Muslim not allowed to practise their own religion in the hijaz post conquest of makkah and now in the 21st century?

Dr AQ


You look too desperate to hug Santa but you are in the wrong place. Pack your bags and go back to your country to sing Christmas carols and run Santa parade.
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Posted 29 December 2011 - 01:49 AM (#9) User is offline   Shaykh_Kahn 

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View PostDesert-Sheikh, on 28 December 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

You look too desperate to hug Santa but you are in the wrong place. Pack your bags and go back to your country to sing Christmas carols and run Santa parade.


Lol, Brother Qalam Your Question Has Been Answered Above By The Brother. They Are Allowed To Celebrate But Not Publicly In Islamic Country, If One Allowes Other Religions To Celebrate There Festivals Meaning We Are Agreeing To There Beliefs. It Stated In The Quran If One Allows Kufr Or Joins In Any Means Is A Kafir.
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Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:32 PM (#10) User is offline   naqshbandihaqqani 

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Why does allowing them to practice their festivals in public have to imply we agree with their
kufr? Why cannot it be just seen as allowing freedom of religion?
Why do you insist on the right to practice uour own religion publically in non Muslim
countries yet wont allow them the same right in your own country?
O marvel! A garden amidst the flames! My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles, and a convent for Christian monks,A temple for idols, and the pilgrim's Ka'ba,
the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran. I follow the religion of Love: whatever way
Love's camels take, that is my religion and my faith.

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:47 AM (#11) User is offline   Shaykh_Kahn 

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View Postsunniskeptic, on 29 December 2011 - 11:32 PM, said:

Why does allowing them to practice their festivals in public have to imply we agree with their
kufr? Why cannot it be just seen as allowing freedom of religion?
Why do you insist on the right to practice uour own religion publically in non Muslim
countries yet wont allow them the same right in your own country?


We dont enforce the rules just follow them enlight of quran and sunnah.

In the time of the prophet migrating to medina all religions where allowed to pray in the mosque, but later on it was allah wills and command, so we cant allow them in Muslim country to publicly celebrate there festivals, they can do in private but not publicly otherwise from the verses of the quran and scholars we will be seen as agreeing with there kufr. Simple example if you went with mate who stole from shop you are equally as guilty as him, even though you didnt steal.

I agree that non muslim country allow us to celebrate our religious festivals freely and we dont allow them in ours.. Just the way it is.
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:52 PM (#12) User is offline   naqshbandihaqqani 

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View PostShaykh_Kahn, on 30 December 2011 - 01:47 AM, said:


I agree that non muslim country allow us to celebrate our religious festivals freely and we dont allow them in ours.. Just the way it is.


It is this kind of double standard that some of us Muslims insist on for ourselves that makes us an increasingly hated minority where ever we have emigrated.
O marvel! A garden amidst the flames! My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles, and a convent for Christian monks,A temple for idols, and the pilgrim's Ka'ba,
the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran. I follow the religion of Love: whatever way
Love's camels take, that is my religion and my faith.

-Ibn Arabi
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 03:40 PM (#13) User is offline   qalam 

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View Postsunniskeptic, on 30 December 2011 - 02:52 PM, said:

It is this kind of double standard that some of us Muslims insist on for ourselves that makes us an increasingly hated minority where ever we have emigrated.


salam

i agree with the above post.

Erudite, to the point and powerful - however the people here and Muslims in general dont want to look at the apparent incoherence in our actions


dr aq
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Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:19 PM (#14) User is offline   madinewala 

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Sorry for my very late reply as after a long time I've logged into this website

I currently reside here in Saudi Arabia and the best answer to the question of aq is

AS PER THE HOLY QURAN'S COMMANDS & INSTRUCTIONS, FURTHER TO THE INSTRUCTIONS OF OUR HOLY PROPHET SALALLAHU ALAIHI WA SALLAM, NON MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE PRESENT IN THE HOLY SANCTUARY. HOLY SANCTUARY IS THE HARAM SHAREEF AREA IN MAKKAH. THIS COMPRISES THE HUDOOD OR LIMIT OF HARAM SHAREEF THAT INCLUDES KABA SHARIF, MINA, MUZDALIFA & ARAFAT AND FEW MORE SURROUNDING AREAS.

NON MUSLIMS ARE NOT ONLY BANNED FROM WORSHIPING IN THESE ABOVE HOLY AREAS, BUT AS WELL PROHIBITED FROM ENTERING THESE AREAS. SO IF YOU VISIT MAKKAH MUKARRAMA, YOU'LL SEE THE CEMENT BOARDS IN THE ENTRANCES OF MAKKAH CITY, BE IT FROM JEDDAH OR FROM RIYADH OR FROM MADINA, WHICH SAYS 'START OF HARAM AREA'. SO FROM THIS AREA THE NON MUSLIMS ARE BANNED OR PROHIBITED ENTRY. THIS IS PURELY PURELY ACCORDING TO QURAN, ALLAH'S INSTRUCTIONS & HOLY PROPHET SALALLAHU ALAIHI WA SALLAM'S INSTRUCTIONS. OUTSIDE THIS AREA, NONE MUSLIMS COULD DO ANYTHING. FOR SURE, WHEN YOU VISIT MAKKAH BY ROAD, EITHER FROM JEDDAH OR ANY OTHER POINT, YOU'D SEE A HUGE BOARD THAT SAYS "ENTRY FOR NON MUSLIMS", THEY'RE PROHIBITED ENTRY INTO THE HOLY HARAM AREA

BUT AS FOR YOUR QUESTION, KNOW THAT OUR RELIGION PROHIBITS THE ENTRY OF NON MUSLIMS ONLY IN THE HOLY SANCTUARY OR HARAM AREA, NOT OUTSIDE THAT.. NOW THAT THIS COUNTRY BEING RULED BY MUSLIM RULERS, THEY'VE PROHIBITED THE ENTRY OF NONE MUSLIMS INTO FEW MORE AREAS AND THEY'VE IMPOSED RESTRICTIONS UPON NON MUSLIM CELEBRATIONS. ITS PURELY BY THE RULING GOVERNMENT AND NOTHING FROM OUR RELIGION.

FURTHER, FOR MADINA SHAREEF CITY, THERE IS A FAMOUS HADEES OF HOLY PROPHET SALALLAHU ALAIHI WA SALLAM IN WHICH HOLY PROPHET SALALLAHU ALAIHI WA SALLAM STATES THAT THE LAND OF MADINA SHAREEF IS LIKE A FURNACE, IT TAKES ALL PURE THINGS INTO IT, AND THROWS IMPURITIES

FURTHER TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, KNOW THAT A MONTH BEFORE OR 15 DAYS BEFORE THE START OF HAJJ, THE GOVERNMENT HERE PROHIBITS ENTRY INTO MAKKAH OR UMRAH TO LOCAL PEOPLE. THE CHECKPOINTS PROVIDE ENTRY INTO MAKKAH ONLY TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE PERMITS OR WHO HAVE COME FOR HAJJ. THEY TURN DOWN PEOPLE FROM ALL CITIES. THIS IS AGAIN THE LAW FROM THE RULING GOVERNMENT. THERE IS NO PROHIBITION FROM ISLAM IN DOING UMRAH JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE HAJJ...

I hope now your question has been answered...

NOTE, CORRECT ME IF'M WRONG IN ANY OF MY WORDS
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Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:23 PM (#15) User is offline   naqshbandihaqqani 

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That is the first sensible answer madinewala but it still doesn't justify the double-standards.
if tomorrow the UK government said no more Muslims allowed in London there would (rightly) be
an outcry from the Muslims all over the world yet no one mentions the double standards in our countries
against minorities.

In Iran, let alone non-Muslims, even Sunnis are not permitted to build any NEW mosques and are also not
allowed to repair current ones. Before anyone here accuses me of lying I heard this directly from an Iranian
student of mine last year who was from Tehran. The less said about Saudi double standards the better!
I have even heard some Pakistanis saying that all non-Muslims should be kicked out of Pakistan and the
way Hindus and Christians are treated in Pakistan is disgusting...

Implicit in these double standards is the idea of Muslim superiority...
O marvel! A garden amidst the flames! My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles, and a convent for Christian monks,A temple for idols, and the pilgrim's Ka'ba,
the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran. I follow the religion of Love: whatever way
Love's camels take, that is my religion and my faith.

-Ibn Arabi
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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:48 PM (#16) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View PostSlave_of_the_Two_Husayns, on 24 March 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

That is the first sensible answer madinewala but it still doesn't justify the double-standards.
if tomorrow the UK government said no more Muslims allowed in London there would (rightly) be
an outcry from the Muslims all over the world yet no one mentions the double standards in our countries
against minorities.

In Iran, let alone non-Muslims, even Sunnis are not permitted to build any NEW mosques and are also not
allowed to repair current ones. Before anyone here accuses me of lying I heard this directly from an Iranian
student of mine last year who was from Tehran. The less said about Saudi double standards the better!
I have even heard some Pakistanis saying that all non-Muslims should be kicked out of Pakistan and the
way Hindus and Christians are treated in Pakistan is disgusting...

Implicit in these double standards is the idea of Muslim superiority...


What double standards?

Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country with 100% Muslim population, so therefore not bound by any LAW to allow such practices that are against the LAW of the country. All NON-Muslim foreigners, you are there to make money, if you don't like it, then go back to your own countries.

Saudi Arabia have made it clear, they are not Hypocrite like 'secular' France where church bells ring every hour but Azaan on loudspeakers is not allowd (and they have signed their own-made Universal Declaration of Human Rights 0n December 10, 1948 in Paris)

By the way, Iran shouldn't be nuked even if it doesnt allow to build Sunni Masjids.

PS: Why don't your UK and USA make Saudi Arabia sign the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:14 PM (#17) User is offline   madinewala 

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Asalamu alaikum,

Well, in the light of Islam, as I said in my earlier post, no obligations, but the double standards that you say, are truly related to the rulers. This question of double standards 'should' be to the rulers. Its upto them what to allow and what not to..

If you're aware of, the wearing of burqa or doing purdah is 'a must' in saudi arabia, be it a muslim or a non muslim woman. Its again the rule by the rulers, not Islam. And when france passed on the rule of banning the burqa and naqab, there was outcry.. . so none of us can truly understand these rulers' and their double standards. many countries face this, some have different rules for their citizens than the expatriates...

And yes, there are many of the muslim nations having double standards.. Allah Help we Muslims.
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:12 AM (#18) User is offline   Slave_Of_Rasool 

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View PostDesert-Sheikh, on 24 March 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

What double standards?

Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country with 100% Muslim population, so therefore not bound by any LAW to allow such practices that are against the LAW of the country. All NON-Muslim foreigners, you are there to make money, if you don't like it, then go back to your own countries.



This is certainly not true.

Saudi Arabia has indigenous Jew as well as Christian population.


Those are my principles. If you do not like them, I have others. -- Groucho Mark
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