[badman]

Salams,

@SunniSkeptic thanks for reminding us!

As a man who's video we have seen on YaNabi its worth reminding that christopher hitchens died yesterday. a confessed athiest he debated with people of different beliefs most notably one of them was tony blair, our (UK) former prime minister. whatever his beleifs were we saw him (in that video) give some of his views on religion to mr blair, some were valid some were not. he had his opinions and we heard him talk (just like the rest of us he was a son of Adam and tomorow he will meet His Lord)


his death at the age of 62 comes at a time when science is advancing yet science could not find a cure for his illness, to much talk, too many questions yet death will come to us all!


Mods: please do not delete this thread!


http://www.guardian....ns-dies-aged-62

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

I had thought of putting a thread up for him, glad you did it.

Yes it's quite sad, he was a man of great intellect and thought. Atleast he was true to what he believed, even if it was painful for me to think.

I was wondering what he might have thought yesterday when his soul was taken? If only he had accepted Islam.

What can we say other than, I am yet to see another who talks like him, who argues like him and who analysis like him.

[Desert-Sheikh]

badman, on 17 December 2011 - 01:24 AM, said:

Mods: please do not delete this thread!

New stunt to get users sympathy or mods attention?

[Malaaikah]

Desert-Sheikh, on 17 December 2011 - 01:33 AM, said:

New stunt to get users sympathy or mods attention?

Mods please delete!!!!

Why shouldnt they delete? Whats your case bro badman?

I dont think this guy deserves to have a mention on Yanabi.com if you ask me. People die everyday, Muslims in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, people starving in Africa and we dont talk about them why should we mention such a man like him on this forum?

[Fekay]

Desert-Sheikh, on 17 December 2011 - 01:33 AM, said:

New stunt to get users sympathy or mods attention?

It's a self credibility stunt; apparently when you add it at the end of your post, it adds the effect of 'truth from the darkside'! Give it a rest man, reading such cheap shots just boils me up!!!

Anyway, i agree with Malaaikah; we shouldnt give credibility of any sort to 'deluded individuals' who've spent their lives deluding millions through their eloquent tongue/speech... it's deception of highest order! And you clap his efforts?

The Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “The thing I fear most for my Ummah is the eloquent hypocrite.” [Ahmad]

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Don't pick on Badman, he's a Goodman really He may have honestly thought that mods would remove his thread, seems like he had good cause for concern.

just expressing sadness at the death of a fellow human being. I enjoyed watching him talk, his art of speaking was amazing.

Ofcourse non of us agree with his views on God, this is about the passing of an exceptionally talented man.

[sunniskeptic]

I agree with everything FTR has said on this issue. The Hitch--though a kafir--was an highly intelligent person and a brilliant writer and debater. Watch his debates
and see how he uses logic and references to generally overcome his opponent -- not emotions. Yes, it is true that he will now see the error of his ways but I don't
think we should gloat. "Dushman marey teh khushi na kariye, sajna vee mar jaana!" - I think Mian Muhammad Bakhsh said that but not 100% sure as it could have been Sultan Bahu Sarkar.

He shall be missed. Watch his last interview with Paxman and especially how he answers Paxman's question about what he will do if it turns out when he dies that God does exist!
His answer was very sincere.

[Tahir-Riaz]

Malaaikah, on 17 December 2011 - 01:42 AM, said:

I dont think this guy deserves to have a mention on Yanabi.com if you ask me. People die everyday, Muslims in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, people starving in Africa and we dont talk about them why should we mention such a man like him on this forum?

Existence of God can only be realized by seriously refuting arguments for why He doesn't exist. Hitchens has left behind a heritage of good objections that will roam human minds for years to come. I must confess that I have not seen this man's logical appeal being championed by the faith camp.

You may think Hitchens is irrelevant but the fact of the matter is that he has helped a lot of religious minds to reason why God is Great.

[Tahir-Riaz]

[Abdul09]

sunniskeptic, on 17 December 2011 - 02:32 AM, said:

I agree with everything FTR has said on this issue. The Hitch--though a kafir--was an highly intelligent person and a brilliant writer and debater. Watch his debates
and see how he uses logic and references to generally overcome his opponent -- not emotions. Yes, it is true that he will now see the error of his ways but I don't
think we should gloat. "Dushman marey teh khushi na kariye, sajna vee mar jaana!" - I think Mian Muhammad Bakhsh said that but not 100% sure as it could have been Sultan Bahu Sarkar.

He shall be missed. Watch his last interview with Paxman and especially how he answers Paxman's question about what he will do if it turns out when he dies that God does exist!
His answer was very sincere.

Asalaam Alai Kum

Yes they did indeed!
Mian Sahib R.A used the word DUSHMAN. One could ask which dushman?
The dushman Mian Sahib R.A was refering to is Iblees, when he didn't prostrate to Adam A.S that was the death of him. Mian Sahib R.A warns us in the Quasaan ' Deeghar Tey Din Gaya Muhammad,Aurak Nu Dub Jaana '
Most of you guys would disagree with this as you would just take the literal meaning and not the 'source' meaning.
Anyway back to the topic...
Some people think that Satan, who also speaks in many tongues is a source of inspiration!
What?

Mar Gaya Mardood
Na Fatiha Na Darood

Wasalaam Alai Kum

[Know-the-Ledge]

Fekay, on 17 December 2011 - 02:04 AM, said:

The Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “The thing I fear most for my Ummah is the eloquent hypocrite.” [Ahmad]

But Hitchens never claimed to be a muslim, so where's the hypcrisy? He was clear on his beliefs, so people knew his stance without tomfoolery.

I'm struggling to think of a reasonable objection to not affording the man some form of dignity, or atleast even an illusion of it from those that find his view point hard to digest.

God afforded him amnesty to say and believe what he did and the radically opposed view does allow us to think about our own beliefs with more intellectual steam. The mis-leading of people is to be accounted with God, we can't arogate that judgement from God. I don't know.

[The-Mughal-Sister]

Another one bites the dust, why should we remember someone who spoke AGAINST God so aggressively?

Now he can argue with God himself, let's see who wins that argument!

"To Allah we Belong and to Him we Return"

[badman]

Salams,

If you love God then Follow Hazrat Muhammad S.A.W, The Man who gave a dignified sending off to the worst of people.
calm down people! Each man for himself, is any of us going to be accounted for somebody elses deeds? we will not take his, nor will he take ours! Each person will be for themselves.
there is so much to reflect on this man’s death if our heart is open to that. Not having a go at anybody (don’t take it personally) sometimes there is wisdom in keeping quite when a soul has returned to his Lord.
Reflect on some of the words that have been said below!


KTL - I'm struggling to think of a reasonable objection to not affording the man some form of dignity, or atleast even an illusion of it from those that find his view point hard to digest.

God afforded him amnesty to say and believe what he did and the radically opposed view does allow us to think about our own beliefs with more intellectual steam. The mis-leading of people is to be accounted with God, we can't arogate that judgement from God. I don't know.

SunniSkeptic - He shall be missed. Watch his last interview with Paxman and especially how he answers Paxman's question about what he will do if it turns out when he dies that God does exist!
His answer was very sincere.

Fatema Zahra - just expressing sadness at the death of a fellow human being. I enjoyed watching him talk, his art of speaking was amazing.
Ofcourse non of us agree with his views on God, this is about the passing of an exceptionally talented man.
I was wondering what he might have thought yesterday when his soul was taken? If only he had accepted Islam.
What can we say other than, I am yet to see another who talks like him, who argues like him and who analysis like him.

some good video's on this thread, good work guys!


and lastly yeah 'stop picking on me!!!' (no just kidding)...... constructive critisism is welcome as long as there is something one can learn from critisism!!!

Reflect on life!

[Know-the-Ledge]

The-Mughal-Sister, on 17 December 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

Another one bites the dust, why should we remember someone who spoke AGAINST God so aggressively?

Now he can argue with God himself, let's see who wins that argument!

"To Allah we Belong and to Him we Return"

TMS modern western living is pervading us with Hitchens and his spawn. We're not in the village anymore, we need to challenge these academics on the stage; where's the renaissance? The writings on the wall we can't ignore it.
Shaykh Hamza Yusuf has great rebuttals, but we truly need scholars who specialise in the question of 'God'.

[qalam]

Know-The-Ledge, on 17 December 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:

TMS modern western living is pervading us with Hitchens and his spawn. We're not in the village anymore, we need to challenge these academics on the stage; where's the renaissance? The writings on the wall we can't ignore it.
Shaykh Hamza Yusuf has great rebuttals, but we truly need scholars who specialise in the question of 'God'.

salam

who do you suggest my friend? Everyone is out to make a quick buck at the disunity and disenfranchisement of muslims


dr aq

[Malaaikah]

Sorry bro badman the previous post of mine was not aimed at you in particular it was just my anger at the topic I guess.

I just believe there are more important things to discuss than this atheist. What is the purpose of this post? Delivering his death what do you expect people to reply? Pay their respects to such filth? Come on this is the worst possible sin one can commit and people are thanking him for his "intelligence", he obvioulsy wasnt that intelligent as he didnt believe in God.

It is strongly discouraged to debate with atheists as scholars have suggested and advised and should be left to the experts, Its dangerous so we shouldnt even be listening to them as it can take people out of the fold of Islam and Im guessing this guy may have made many believers question the existence of God. Just like people can easily convert to Islam they can easily turn away from it, if their Imaan isnt strong enough.

I wouldnt congratulate or praise him for any of his "qualities", in my eyes he is just a devil.

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

...he obvioulsy wasnt that intelligent as he didnt believe in God'(Malaaikah)

Do only intelligent people believe in God? Are Atheists unintelligent people?

It is actually quite hard to PROVE the existence of God through rational argument, we believe in a God because we were lucky enough to be born into Muslim families and we feel God. You have those for whom discovering God is entirely their responsibility. I'm quite firm in my belief of God but I wouldn't know how to answer Christopher Hitchens or the likes of him because our emotional rhetoric is just not factual enough for a thinking mind.

I think intelligence is not a prerequisite for believing in God because look at the Molvies and Muslims around us, do they seem intelligent to you?

[sunniskeptic]

OMG Sis FTR! I agree 100% with you for once! It's a miracle

Fatema-the-resplendent, on 17 December 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

...he obvioulsy wasnt that intelligent as he didnt believe in God'(Malaaikah)

Do only intelligent people believe in God? Are Atheists unintelligent people?

It is actually quite hard to PROVE the existence of God through rational argument, we believe in a God because we were lucky enough to be born into Muslim families and we feel God. You have those for whom discovering God is entirely their responsibility. I'm quite firm in my belief of God but I wouldn't know how to answer Christopher Hitchens or the likes of him because our emotional rhetoric is just not factual enough for a thinking mind.

I think intelligence is not a prerequisite for believing in God because look at the Molvies and Muslims around us, do they seem intelligent to you?

[Merazul]

Tahir-Riaz, on 17 December 2011 - 02:33 AM, said:

Existence of God can only be realized by seriously refuting arguments for why He doesn't exist. Hitchens has left behind a heritage of good objections that will roam human minds for years to come. I must confess that I have not seen this man's logical appeal being championed by the faith camp.

You may think Hitchens is irrelevant but the fact of the matter is that he has helped a lot of religious minds to reason why God is Great.

I have to disagree with you there brother.

Atheists like Christopher Hitchens may have provided some fun and games for a small number of intellectuals and elites, but for the rest of us average folks, we simply see people insulting our Creator, ridiculing our pious predecessors, and in doing so, increasing the arsenal at the disposal of the atheists. This in turn is making non-Muslims more aggressive towards reverting to Islam, and turning our youngsters into a bunch of pseudo-academics who shun certain religious practices and beliefs as it does not fit within their logical and over secularised mindset.

One does not require their views to be objected to strengthen and reconcile them.

[Merazul]

Know-The-Ledge, on 17 December 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:

TMS modern western living is pervading us with Hitchens and his spawn. We're not in the village anymore, we need to challenge these academics on the stage; where's the renaissance? The writings on the wall we can't ignore it.
Shaykh Hamza Yusuf has great rebuttals, but we truly need scholars who specialise in the question of 'God'.

The mindset of the mass, over recent times, has aggressively developed into an X versus Y affair. Instead of it being an objective dialogue regarding two viewpoints, the affair is usually akin to that of a rap freestyle battle, where two opponents try to outwit and score points against each other.

The prevailing modern (Western) view of reasoning and logic is systematically manufactured around highly non-religious dogmas and ‘the scientific method’. For example, an argument from Christopher Hitchens about how 1 + 2 + 3 = 6 will receive more credibility that Tony Blair trying to explain how an Angel flew through various dimensions.

Refutations can only go so far and its impact will be determined by many factors. There are many absurd theories and arguments out there that have been thoroughly disproved, but yet they survive.

It’s a shame that we have to dress up our methods and attitudes so it is in alignment with the non-Muslims. Why fall into the same traps as those people without any spirituality and be bogged down to a lower standard of discussion? We should stop jumping down from our raised platform and encourage others to rise up to it.