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Can Lust Ever Be Love?

Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:32 PM (#1) User is offline   badman 

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Salams,

In a previous thread I opposed to talking about certain derogotary perversed sexual acts (in that they) should be contained in 'Brother' - 'Sister' only section on this forum (I still stand by what I wrote) in that certain thoughts are best displayed behind closed doors and if one needs help then they should seek sincere help and advice from the same gender instead of writing (of the act that was taken place) on an open male/female forum.

At the same time (Most on here, Sincerly) wish to open a topic/discussion on a subject which is considered taboo within the muslim community and conservative traditional non-muslim communities. Being an open forum please try to use decent upright language.

and to start off the discussion, putting this video of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf (as template for our discussion)

There are quite a few things we can all discuss i.e how lust to some young (and even old) individuals can be mistaken for love. Or how some vulnerable individuals can easily be taken in by someones sweet mouth (get the jist)

hope not to be talking to myself, please participate (Insha'ALLAH) Lets Learn.......








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Posted 24 November 2011 - 02:11 AM (#2) User is offline   badman 

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Salams,

It is no secret that the word sex is the most searched word on the google search engine, the most common countries to have this word googled are the muslim countries. why is that? I was talking to a Friend of mine who's from a muslim country and he told me there was a massive problem within the male and female muslim community who after being doctrinated (with totalitarian like) disturbing attitude that interacting (having of conversation) between a male and a female was seen as something which has been forbidden in Islam i.e it is haraam for a boy to be talking with a girl. he went on how certain religious fanatics were using Islam in a perverted way and brainwashing young ones in as if everything be it a conversation between the two different sexes would lead in to people commiting zina.

the (so-called) religious people would not discuss the beauty of what Islam gives to the females and how God has bestowed many mercies on a female over a male and how ALLAH has made the Male as the protectors of the Females. (as we were talking) i bought Hinduism in to our conversation and told him how the male hindu's make a promise each year of protecting their blood sisters and those (non blood related sisters) who (the females) have made the males as their brothers, how these bonds are unique and unbreakable. told him that the hindu's have a special day (the muslims would call it a Sister's Eid - i know its a bidah, LolZ) this special day is called Raksha Bandan - Rakhi is a piece of an armband given to by a sister to her brother. (once a non blood related girl gives and puts this rakhi (arm band) on the boy - the boy can never marry that girl, ever!) The boy/man takes an oath to protect the sister and if needs to be will put his life before her. He (my freind) could not belive what i told him and we both agreed this act to be an act of good. a religioun that worships rats, snakes and dont know what other animals they hold sacred - they worship, can see the relationship of a male and female without perversion then why do muslims not do the same?

God has made Males to look after the Females to protect them yet instead of seeing them as Sisters (if not married to them) why are some being doctrinated to see them as something else? When certain young males have had enough and cannot control their innerselves and want to find out something which they have been told is for pro-creation only and not for pleasure and shaytan whispers in to their ears "go towards the pc" and find out for yourselves then slowly slowly the haywan (devil) that lives inside (all of us) starts to breed. the pc is a very powerful tool just like our mind - if used in a good way it can be great - used in a bad way then it cannot be that great.

according to Insan it is common knowlegde that when something which we have been told is no good for us or not explained properly then out of our depriviation our minds will go into overtime and will only want to know more about that particular thing. if this has a negative vibe on our well being this then becomes a disease that starts eating away sanity. what we are left with is a lusting beastly mind

what is a lusting beastly mind and where does it start from?

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:13 AM (#3) User is offline   Snoop 

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Salam,


Lust is something born out of desire, impatience, greed, need for saitisfaction...etc. Love on the other hand is something much more complex. I agree both can make you do some (perceived to be) crazy things but the intention behind the action, I'm sure, is very different. Lust is more about self gratification whereas true love is not about you it's about the person/thing you love.



In terms of the 'bad word' sex, what a silly attitude we have towards it?! I mean everyone knows that we didn't just appear, no-one was just holding hands one day and became pregnant, did they?

The truth is that we only know what we know through Allah and his Prophet (saw). Everything we need to know has been discussed extensively through Q&A sessions between our stars (the Sahaba (RA) and our Leading Light (Prophet (SAW)). Now surely if it was as taboo as some people make it out to be the Sahaba (ra) would not have engaged in such talk with Rasullallah (saw).


The problem we have with the word sex is not religious, it's cultural. Let me give you a real life example. In my community, we have worked closely with schools to make sure the sex ed they deliver is as compatible with Islamic teaching as possible. Alhamdulillah we have been able to influence lessons so they are more 'islam friendly'. We also thought about training a few of us up on sex ed so we could deliver tailor made sex ed sessions for our young brethren. I know, i know, 'shock! horror!'. Teaching Muslim children about sex from an Islamic perspective?! How perverse?!


Anyway, as soon as some 'elders' found out, they objected by saying 'so and so want to educate our kids about sex'. The sad and actually quite pathetic thing is that these elders don't really know what they are talking about, have no objection to main stream school sex ed but have problems with islamic sex ed classes. Needless to say, my head is bruised and I have broken through many brick walls.


Sex is not taboo. It's because of cultural barriers that some us feel unable to talk about or educate others. I can sympathise with the first generation who settled here who feel shy, emabarassed or even unable to talk to their kids about sex. Maybe they don't even know much themselves and are afraid of making a fool of themselves.

If you 'make' something taboo or uncomfortable it will always be difficult to discuss or talk about. If you 'make' something normal and easy, there is no issue.

I'm Pakistani and I see the following as a huge issue for interaction between males and females, related or not.

So we are brought up as brothers and sisters (wider family and community) and then all of a sudden that relationship has changed from brother and sister to husband and wife! You know what I mean right? No? Ok, so from a young age you are taught to treat your extended family as your brother/sister and respect them likewise. You grow up being told 'you lot are all brothers and sisters so look out for each other'. Then one day, you hit 18 and guess what? Overnight you have transformed from brother and sister into a potential husband and wife. WOW!

Don't get me wrong, that might work for some people and that's fine and I wish them well Insha-Allah. However, for some this is a real dilemma and cause for stress.

If only our parents weren't so afraid of talking about sex with us and the benefits of waiting until marriage and the cons of having sex before marriage, not only from an Islamic perspective but also from a social one. Yes, society is important because we 'are the society'. I can guarantee you this, if we balanced our deen/dunya (like we should) these problems would not exist. I'm sure you will agree.

Fekay said a beautiful thing about moderation the other day, it was so true. As parents, we need to talk to our kids. Just talk to them! About anything and everything, because, if you don't someone else will. Surely you want to give your kids 'your version' rather than someone elses version? And as children, we need to bear in mind the social/cultural difficulties that our parents face when dealing with such subjects. Moderation and balance is key.

I think this is maybe more of an Asian issue, maybe I'm wrong. Islam is universal not just for Pakistanis or any other particular nationality, when are we going to realise and accept that?

Yakshemash (in my best Borat accent)
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