[qalam]

salam


I have noticed that therer seem to be two very different class of young britsh ulema:


a. You have the British sunni youth ulema that prefr to engage in youtube debates and discuss dogma and theology 24/7. I.e. these young scholars will discuss nara thehkeek, who is a brelwi deobandi wahabi etc etc. They are totally detracted from reality and are dreaming in 19th century uttar pradesh.


b. Then you have the other groups of youth who re non sunni but discuss issues relating to drugs, crime, racism, extra marital relations.

The scary thing is that the elders are not guiding the sunni youth in the correct manner rather they are encorauging them to spread their sectarianism.

do you agree?

dr aq

[JoeDacky]

qalam, on 28 October 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

salam


I have noticed that therer seem to be two very different class of young britsh ulema:


a. You have the British sunni youth ulema that prefr to engage in youtube debates and discuss dogma and theology 24/7. I.e. these young scholars will discuss nara thehkeek, who is a brelwi deobandi wahabi etc etc. They are totally detracted from reality and are dreaming in 19th century uttar pradesh.


b. Then you have the other groups of youth who re non sunni but discuss issues relating to drugs, crime, racism, extra marital relations.

The scary thing is that the elders are not guiding the sunni youth in the correct manner rather they are encorauging them to spread their sectarianism.

do you agree?

dr aq

Salaam,

I agree. We have our priorities wrong. To be honest with you, I dont even go down my local too much because I get disheartened by the sort of things I keep hearing. For 35 years or so we,ve been discussing issues such as hazir nazir, noor o bashar, milad, khatam etc and the audience just sits there, shouts subhanallah, a few naras here and there and we go home after a greasy saalan.
In the same audience sit people who never pray, except on jummah or eid. Some are drinkers. Others daughters or sons are off the rails. Some who gamble, fornicate, lie, defraud and deceive others. Is this Sunni Islam? There are people in our communities who dont even see eye to with their own blood brothers over petty issues. Where is the mercy in our hearts? Divorces are on the rise, family break ups are too common and our youth are going beserk in clubs and pubs.The learned amongst us are not being merciful to us by teaching us about the things that matter, saving us from misguidance. How can we then be merciful to others. How can we live amongst non muslims and expect them to follow deen when all we know is how Abu Lahabs punishment is lightened on a Monday. Or that Deos said this and that. We're not living Islam because we dont know Islam. Todays Sunni Islam is all about the biggest Mureed base and the best naras and biggest events. And I'm afraid I too am a Sunni Muslim whose part of the mechanism. Its all about finding the right balance. As far as the "other" lot are concerned, they're the complete opposite extreme. Whoever is with them is all good and saved, and whoever is against the is deviant and a kaffa!

[Fides-Amor-Libertas]

We may have our priorities wrong, but the real question is how do we change this ??

If those going to these khatams etc....want to continue hearing the same arguments debates etc....then how do we get the committees of these institutions to change the formulae?? If we want change then we must ask for it or as Gandhi said "Become the change you seek" I think it is high time, the youth stood up to these committees and demanded change.

May be we should start a revolution!!!!!!! LOL...........

[Fides-Amor-Libertas]

The scary thing is that the elders are not guiding the sunni youth in the correct manner rather they are encorauging them to spread their sectarianism.



I am of the opinon guidance is lost upon us, we know not how to guide and help, but only to sow discord and divide.................

[The-Mughal-Sister]

Muslims are learning, educating themselves just to engage in argumentation and prove themselves right and in return grooming their ego! They learn this from their peers because this is all they see around them.

This is a counter productive trend which does nothing to help the Ummah, the Muslims and the community and instead divide and create further issues into the next generation. Instead of our elders sowing seeds of goodness, and spreading glad tidings it's all about which Masjid has the shiner dome, the shiny floors, we've lost the plot!

With the rise of social media and forums, the problem has only got worse, check this video out from Nouman Ali Khan, listen to the message his saying rather than who or what sect he is from. All goodness is from God and bad from ourselves, and our nafs!

[Mudassar-Rana]

Agree with you dr saab, but you answered your question yourself.

What the hell is british sunni? and british non sunni?

Why have divided ourselves once again?

Sis TMS is spot on regardless of the background kafir or muslim, hanafi or other we should listen with open ears and open hearts. Our iman is not so weak that the first time we are confronted by an opposing view that we will cross any imaginery borders.

I have one criteria to categorise people. Do they spread hatred and infighting or unity. It makes life very simple for me and i know who is sincere to allah and his messenger. Because if someone is brave enough to class himself as a scholar of islam then he will be aware that the last words of rasool allah s.a.w were "my ummah". And if he is trying to create fitna in that ummah that allah's rasool loved so much then i disregard him.

Brelvism is a very easy maslak. Do what you like all week, rob,rape,pillage but just hate wahabbis. and who is a wahabi? Anybody who disagrees with you.

So when a maslak has such a weak intellectual seed then why do you expect the fruit to be good? The last 30 years in this country - we can view both the progress of brelvi's and deobandis. The deobandi's have schools, books, and teachers - even some state funded. Mashallah the brelvi comminity? We have the largest network of door knockers!

Wake up and smell the coffee. Remember Rasool e kareem s.a.w said the momin is not bitten twice from the same hole.

[qadrimuslim]

I agree this is a major obstacle for us *Sunnis*

I prefer to be considered a Sunni Sufi - not barelvi
Just last week I was in Fes, Morocco, and I met Sufis and I met Salafi-minded Muslims too. The rest of the world has never heard of "barelvis"!

Our people really need to get out more and see the world. The Islamic world is massive!

I think the major problem with our circle is that we have become too defensive. The typical barelvi scholar is busy defending everything in the maslak and arguing on smaller issues too. We should not be focusing 90% of all our efforts proving our doctrine is perfect. But we should lead by example and have a select group of Ulama discussing the aqeedah issues. The rest of the Ulama should be setting the agenda and working for their communities in a positive manner.

Inter-barelvi bickering is probably the most counterproductive factor by far. Takfir of one another and denouncing each other as out of Ahlus Sunnah has left us weak and divided.

[Mudassar-Rana]

qadrimuslim, on 28 October 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

I agree this is a major obstacle for us *Sunnis*

I prefer to be considered a Sunni Sufi - not barelvi
Just last week I was in Fes, Morocco, and I met Sufis and I met Salafi-minded Muslims too. The rest of the world has never heard of "barelvis"!

Our people really need to get out more and see the world. The Islamic world is massive!

I think the major problem with our circle is that we have become too defensive. The typical barelvi scholar is busy defending everything in the maslak and arguing on smaller issues too. We should not be focusing 90% of all our efforts proving our doctrine is perfect. But we should lead by example and have a select group of Ulama discussing the aqeedah issues. The rest of the Ulama should be setting the agenda and working for their communities in a positive manner.

Inter-barelvi bickering is probably the most counterproductive factor by far. Takfir of one another and denouncing each other as out of Ahlus Sunnah has left us weak and divided.

I am intrigued brother qm - could you educate me as to why you dont prefer muslim? I dont know whether i am wrong but i hate it when people ask me are you sunni or brelvi - i just reply muslim.

[checkmate]

posted by brother Rana
I am intrigued brother qm - could you educate me as to why you dont prefer muslim? I dont know whether i am wrong but i hate it when people ask me are you sunni or brelvi - i just reply muslim.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question is would you pray in a masjid lead by a deobnadii or any other imam that does not fall clear cut in the barelvii group or the barelvii group altogether?

[blogger]

Would you describe yourself as British, Pakistani, Indian or Global?
it's simply a sense of identity and belonging, some people misuse and take things too far but used within context there's nothing wrong with it.

[qadrimuslim]

As a Muslim, there's nothing wrong being identified as a Sunni - because I am from the Ahlus Sunnah

Being identified as a Muslim is a given, alhamdulillah

but to be open about my specific ideology I have always identified myself the same way my Shaykh identified himself in Saudia Arabia

Sunni, Hanafi, Qadri

and this is the same way Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (RA) identified himself.

[Mudassar-Rana]

checkmate, on 29 October 2011 - 02:48 AM, said:

posted by brother Rana
I am intrigued brother qm - could you educate me as to why you dont prefer muslim? I dont know whether i am wrong but i hate it when people ask me are you sunni or brelvi - i just reply muslim.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question is would you pray in a masjid lead by a deobnadii or any other imam that does not fall clear cut in the barelvii group or the barelvii group altogether?

in short yes.

[Imran.]

checkmate, on 29 October 2011 - 02:48 AM, said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question is would you pray in a masjid lead by a deobnadii or any other imam that does not fall clear cut in the barelvii group or the barelvii group altogether?

If any imam i prayed behind fell "clear cut" in contemporary brelvi group i would probably repeat my prayer afterwards, just as a precaution.

[Mudassar-Rana]

Imran., on 29 October 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

If any imam i prayed behind fell "clear cut" in contemporary brelvi group i would probably repeat my prayer afterwards, just as a precaution.

[Mudassar-Rana]

[quote name='Imran.' timestamp='1319927640' post='433759']
If any imam i prayed behind fell "clear cut" in contemporary brelvi group i would probably repeat my prayer afterwards, just as a precaution.

[/quote

Practically its one of the most stupid questions. If its salah time, are you supposed to delay jamaah and have a quesiton and answer session, just to ensure you agree with his views? Can we really be so judgemental about another persons iman? I've heard that in hanafi fiqh you cannot ask a muslim if his food is halal as its questioning his iman and an insult. And people expect us to dissect someones aqaid - the only thing it does is breed hatred amongst brethren. Leave what a person holds in his heart between him and his lord.

[checkmate]

Brother Rana

I do not mean if you did not know who the imam was. Im asking would you read behind an imam who you knew was deobandi etc? example in a masjid that is your local and you know it is not brelwi?

Brother Imran, take it easy on your insult towards the brelwi maslak, and I see you wrote 'contemporary', that still does not give you the right to point towards 'barelwi', it holds a connection with Ala Hadrat rehmatullahe alaihe. If you have issues with certain scholars, and they happen to be 'barelwis', take issue with them, dont pull the barelwi maslak through mud. JazakAllahu tala khaira.

ps you are my brothers in islam, so just take it as light advice.

[qadrimuslim]

My position:

I do not pray behind someone I know to be a deobandi because I heed the advice of the Ulama, and Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (RA) is one of our Imams.
It is probably worth making clear that I do not do takfir of deobandis and believe there are many good Muslims out there who happen to be deobandi.

As for Arabs, then as long as he does Taqlid of one of the 4 Imams, I will happily pray behind him.

[Imran.]

Checkmate,insult?

how?

I'm being serious mate,look at some of their conduct(and that of their internet chamche) towards other sunni ulema be they asian or arab.

I would seriously think twice about praying behind those"sunnis" that tend to display traits of kharjiat towards their contemporaries.

PS I dont care who they are connected to so dont deal that card to me,sunniyat is not just a set of beliefs, conduct plays a big part too.

[piara-madinah]

checkmate, on 30 October 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

Brother Rana

I do not mean if you did not know who the imam was. Im asking would you read behind an imam who you knew was deobandi etc? example in a masjid that is your local and you know it is not brelwi?

Brother Imran, take it easy on your insult towards the brelwi maslak, and I see you wrote 'contemporary', that still does not give you the right to point towards 'barelwi', it holds a connection with Ala Hadrat rehmatullahe alaihe. If you have issues with certain scholars, and they happen to be 'barelwis', take issue with them, dont pull the barelwi maslak through mud. JazakAllahu tala khaira.

ps you are my brothers in islam, so just take it as light advice.

why you call imam raza ,s maslk is diferent than suniyet .Just call sunni maslak or braliwiyet etc why you want to introduce that imam raza create new maslak what was bralwiyet, s old name before imam raza.

[piara-madinah]

qadrimuslim, on 30 October 2011 - 06:37 AM, said:

My position:

I do not pray behind someone I know to be a deobandi because I heed the advice of the Ulama, and Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (RA) is one of our Imams.
It is probably worth making clear that I do not do takfir of deobandis and believe there are many good Muslims out there who happen to be deobandi.

As for Arabs, then as long as he does Taqlid of one of the 4 Imams, I will happily pray behind him.

if the arabs taqleed of one of the 4 imams you will read namaz behind them so if a dewbandi tuqleed any of them do you read behind or you believe that they not tuqleed any imams .