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What Is Janab Dr Tahir Ul Qadri Sahub's View On Narah E Tahqeeq

Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:43 AM (#1) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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yanabi.com forum full with topics on narha tahqeeq and the mureden are making there victory etc and arguing with others even abusing others and using a bad language , can brs and sistres help us by giving more info what big alims and scholers are saying on this issue specially Dr Tahir ul qadri or world known big scholers .

Why I mentioned DR Tahir sahub because he is a big sheikhulislam and scholer and mufaiker and we got here his students as well.[/size

[size="4"]And what big scholers views if one say this narha or not is he still be a muslim if he still then why we arguing and using bad language and making the ummah apart.

who ever doing that is he accountable .

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 02:24 AM (#2) User is offline   Faisal 

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Ishq-e-mustafa jis ke senein mein hai. Jahan be rahe vo Madenein mein hai
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Posted 16 June 2011 - 02:30 AM (#3) User is offline   Faisal 

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View Postpiara-madinah, on 16 June 2011 - 01:43 AM, said:

yanabi.com forum full with topics on narha tahqeeq and the mureden are making there victory etc and arguing with others even abusing others and using a bad language , can brs and sistres help us by giving more info what big alims and scholers are saying on this issue specially Dr Tahir ul qadri or world known big scholers .

Why I mentioned DR Tahir sahub because he is a big sheikhulislam and scholer and mufaiker and we got here his students as well.[/size

[size="4"]And what big scholers views if one say this narha or not is he still be a muslim if he still then why we arguing and using bad language and making the ummah apart.

who ever doing that is he accountable .



I added the above video for your info, but the truth of the matter is that no Scholar is interested in this debate because it was a farce based on a non issue.

All Ahl as-Sunnah believe all Sahaba are on HAQ, there is no two opinions about it. Saying Haq Char Yaar or Haq Sab Yaar does not make a difference to a person's imaan nor does it affect the lives of muslims hence what is all the commotion about...?

My opinion on the reasons behind the nara's:
Takbeer - against non believers
Risalah - against those who belittle the Holy Prophet (SallAllaho Alaihe Wasallam)
Tahqeeq - against Shia
Haideri - against Khawarij
Ishq-e-mustafa jis ke senein mein hai. Jahan be rahe vo Madenein mein hai
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Posted 16 June 2011 - 02:34 AM (#4) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View PostFaisal, on 16 June 2011 - 02:24 AM, said:






Dr Sahib @:35 Sahaba Ikram aur Khulfa Rashideen ka Na'ra Tarak Kar Dia .....

Dr Sahib @42: Haq Char Yaar...

So he excludes Imam-e-Hassan radi Allahu anhu from Khulfa-e-Rashideen?

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 02:37 AM (#5) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View Postpiara-madinah, on 16 June 2011 - 01:43 AM, said:

And what big scholers views


Sister piara-madinah,

Everyone is busy with small small issues, i think we have small small scholars, we don't have big big scholars.

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 02:50 AM (#6) User is offline   Faisal 

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View PostDesert-Sheikh, on 16 June 2011 - 02:34 AM, said:



Dr Sahib @:35 Sahab Ikram aur Khulfa Rashideen ka Na'ra Tarak Kar Dia .....

Dr Sahib @42: Haq Char Yaar...

So he excludes Imam-e-Hassan radi Allahu anhu from Khulfa-e-Rashideen?



Don't start another irrelevant issue now!
Ishq-e-mustafa jis ke senein mein hai. Jahan be rahe vo Madenein mein hai
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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:08 AM (#7) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View PostFaisal, on 16 June 2011 - 02:50 AM, said:



Don't start another irrelevant issue now!




Nowadays scholars bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible (usually jobless and desperate husbands do that). No one dares/cares to ask, Hazart, how relevant and important is this issue? Crowd is ready to shout out any slogan and wave any flag, any time.

BTW, i am not starting an issue. He clearly says Khulfa's Na'ra and Chaar Yaar and even after his reminder only few replied to that Na'ra (either chaar yaar or sab yaar) which proves that How-New is this na'ra in Sunni gatherings......i'll leave the rest up to the Slogan-groups.

Ik Tum Hi Nahi Tanha, Ulfat Mein Meri Ruswa
Iss Shehar Mein Tum Jese Diwane Hazaron Hein


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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:17 AM (#8) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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yes DS bhai you right why I asked because all topics here on forum, people arguing and going crazy on this issue and I thought because many here posting topics from dr sahub as well so betetr I can improve my knowledge by asking his view , the link bhai faisal post I looked on youtube but again didnt knew on youtube what is real and what is fabricated.

as you said that is again right only these issues people can raise got free time in hands and even the scholers who are wasting there time on non important issues I dont call them scholers they are part timers but again because our socity is man made socity and same on this forum , they not even let a sister ask any questions and argue with them if they wrong and they blind faithly walking behind others , app nay dekha hi ho ga jub main question kerty hon to mery few bhai real answer deny ki bjaye crazy ho jaty hain or bhool jaty hain kay islami taleem kiya hay or ik sister say kesy mukhtub hona hay .

ider bhi majority brs and uncles hain so they not let us sisters learn anything in detail.

dS bhai app ko hi kehny deen gay loog small scholers uger ham sisters keh den kisi ko samll scholers to yeh scholers ki narha team hamara pani bund ker dety hay on forum.

Allah scholers ko hadyet dey kay ummat ko non important issues main uljha ker woh apni jeben na bhreen bulky ummat main itfaq or suljahoo peda kareen.

or scholers ko scholers hi rahny deen asmani na banyeen.

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:27 AM (#9) User is offline   Fekay 

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Lol, Sis PM has hit the nail.
.
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:49 AM (#10) User is offline   hafiz-qadri 

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Aslaamualikum

I have decided to respond on certain threads in Punjabi.

Tawanoo Quraan de vichoo Kad ke Dasya Naara Haq Sab Yaar da,Tawanoo Dasi dasi teh may Chalah (crazy) hoeegiya.



HAQ SAB YAAR 160 LASHES FOR THOSE IN DENIAL
Haq Ali Ali Ali Moula Ali Ali Ali
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 02:36 AM (#11) User is offline   qadrimuslim 

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All of the above are correct

this really is a non issue

and it shows how small minded the jalali camp are for challenging a debate on the subject

the truth is:

1) Haq SAB yar is the more correct answer. Someone who says 4 yar has not actually paid attention to what he is saying but may still be genuinely trying to praise the Sahaba and this is why we dont question the motive of Dr Tahir ul Qadri because he is among the few Sunni Ulama that genuinely loves and praises the Ahle Bayt. However, there are those who use this Nara Tahqiq to shun the Ahle Bayt and the burden to differentiate lies with you.

2) Adding a new Aqeedah-based Nara to the Sunni syllabus has caused no end of trouble. Especially seeing as those who promote it have a insecurity issue with Nara of Hazrat Imam Ali.

Lessons to be learnt:

1) Sunnis should just stick to the original formula Takbeer, Risalat, Haideri, Ghawthia. When you shout "Ya Ghawth al Azam!" that in itself rejects the rafizis. The majority of Sunnis around the world don't even use Nara Tahqiq and I think they're doing just fine without it!

2) Sunni infighting has become unhealthy and from recent events very distasteful too. Are we attracting people to Ahlus Sunnah with all this? or driving them away? In Pakistan towns after towns are turning their backs on Barelvi Sunniyat. If you dont believe me, talk to observers on the ground. Shi'ism is spreading like wild fire and deobandism is taking hold in areas us Sunnis could never have imagined!
Our Ulama MUST tackle the issues for why this is happening! We have no support structures for Ahlus Sunnah while the Ahlul Bid'a have organised and sophisticated setups and are rapidly building their way OVER traditional Sunni Islam.

Just look at the government structure in Pakistan. Any Mullah you see discussing politics is usually a Kattar Wahabi. Where are the Sunnis?? Busy challenging each other and throwing mud at each other.

I spoke to an observer the other day and he said something very powerful to me:

Sunni Ulama in Pakistan today have become so engrossed in dunya that if they see another person eating they will try to snatch the food straight out of his hand!

"The Sufi Must Submit to the Faqih" - Shaykh Ahmad Zurruq (RA)

Wa-la Ghalib Il-Allah "There is no Conqueror but Allah"
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:19 AM (#12) User is offline   Hamzah 

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View Postqadrimuslim, on 17 June 2011 - 02:36 AM, said:


1) Haq SAB yar is the more correct answer. Someone who says 4 yar has not actually paid attention to what he is saying but may still be genuinely trying to praise the Sahaba and this is why we dont question the motive of Dr Tahir ul Qadri because he is among the few Sunni Ulama that genuinely loves and praises the Ahle Bayt. However, there are those who use this Nara Tahqiq to shun the Ahle Bayt and the burden to differentiate lies with you.





I personally feel that the haq chaar yaar response is a valid response. (To a matter which is not from the essentials of deen!!). To consider Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali to be on haq is not to say that the rest of the companions are not on haq. In the same way that to consider the Ashara Mubashara to be Jannati, does not mean the rest of the companions are excluded, Ma'azAllah.


The issue that remains is why Imam Hasan is excluded. The Naara is not specifically for khilafath, it symbolises the great status of these four companions of our Messenger SAWAS, as those who were his most closest aids. Syedina Hasan is the son of Syedina Ali, and so his relationship with Our Messenger SAWAS, differs from that of his father (RA) and his father's peers. If we are also to include imam hasan, then why should Imam Hussain be left out? This is just being picky and playing semantics. We could go on and on and find reasons and excuses to obstruct a lot of minor actions, which no one considers to be from the important matters of deen.


If mentioning of the blessed four is considered a problem then what will you say of Imam Busiri, who writes:
thumma al-rida `an abi bakrin wa `an `umarin / wa `an `aliyyin wa `an `uthmana dhi al-karami

And may Allah's good pleasure be with Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Ali, and `Uthman the noble one,




To be honest, I feel that this problem could have been avoided a long time ago, if we all started using the naare tahqiq in our gatherings, and everyone responded however they wish, be it chaar, panj or sab yaar. You would not really notice different replies. At least there would have been unity. But instead what we find is that in some gatherings, whilst the naara e tahqiq was not proclaimed at all, the naara e haidiri was used as a political tool, proclaimed many times repeatedly, though the naara e takbeer and risalat were only proclaimed once, and proclaimed more loudly. Outsiders feel that a point is trying to be made, and cant understand why there is such stubborness against shouting one small nara at the end - any nara, whatever you want to call it, in favour of the sahaba.




That's the other side to the story. As i have said before, the slogans are not as important as is what is in the heart. Nobody can hide that, nor can anybody else see that. As long as our love for the Blessed family and Blessed companions remians constant we have no concerns, InshaAllah.
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:22 AM (#13) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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View Posthafiz-qadri, on 17 June 2011 - 01:49 AM, said:

Aslaamualikum

I have decided to respond on certain threads in Punjabi.

Tawanoo Quraan de vichoo Kad ke Dasya Naara Haq Sab Yaar da,Tawanoo Dasi dasi teh may Chalah (crazy) hoeegiya.



HAQ SAB YAAR 160 LASHES FOR THOSE IN DENIAL


zuban koi vi howey sachian galan sachian hondiyan nain , tusi dosriyan di post sumjhiya vi keroo , ki tusi kehna cah ndey oh ky jenhan muzakira keta oh quran dey inkari nahe , eh zara laal aink la key tey chitty aink lawoo , tey ik hor munazira ker lawaoo kisi onhan dey wadhy dey naal jedha ilam vi pir qadir saab jinah howey .

tusi bas dosry part di burai jandey oh hoor kujh nazer nai awnda .

janab pir qadir sahub honhan eh forum purha dewoo tey shamt tohwadi aa si oh tusaan kehn gay saber kerna sikhoo tey aurtan wargon lurna chudoo .
koi hoor zuban awndi tey odhy wich vi gal ker lawoo zuban badlen moozoh nai badelda.
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:34 AM (#14) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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View Postqadrimuslim, on 17 June 2011 - 02:36 AM, said:

All of the above are correct

this really is a non issue

and it shows how small minded the jalali camp are for challenging a debate on the subject

the truth is:

1) Haq SAB yar is the more correct answer. Someone who says 4 yar has not actually paid attention to what he is saying but may still be genuinely trying to praise the Sahaba and this is why we dont question the motive of Dr Tahir ul Qadri because he is among the few Sunni Ulama that genuinely loves and praises the Ahle Bayt. However, there are those who use this Nara Tahqiq to shun the Ahle Bayt and the burden to differentiate lies with you.

2) Adding a new Aqeedah-based Nara to the Sunni syllabus has caused no end of trouble. Especially seeing as those who promote it have a insecurity issue with Nara of Hazrat Imam Ali.


Lessons to be learnt:

1) Sunnis should just stick to the original formula Takbeer, Risalat, Haideri, Ghawthia. When you shout "Ya Ghawth al Azam!" that in itself rejects the rafizis. The majority of Sunnis around the world don't even use Nara Tahqiq and I think they're doing just fine without it!

2) Sunni infighting has become unhealthy and from recent events very distasteful too. Are we attracting people to Ahlus Sunnah with all this? or driving them away? In Pakistan towns after towns are turning their backs on Barelvi Sunniyat. If you dont believe me, talk to observers on the ground. Shi'ism is spreading like wild fire and deobandism is taking hold in areas us Sunnis could never have imagined!
Our Ulama MUST tackle the issues for why this is happening! We have no support structures for Ahlus Sunnah while the Ahlul Bid'a have organised and sophisticated setups and are rapidly building their way OVER traditional Sunni Islam.

Just look at the government structure in Pakistan. Any Mullah you see discussing politics is usually a Kattar Wahabi. Where are the Sunnis?? Busy challenging each other and throwing mud at each other.

I spoke to an observer the other day and he said something very powerful to me:

Sunni Ulama in Pakistan today have become so engrossed in dunya that if they see another person eating they will try to snatch the food straight out of his hand!




qadri bhai if dr tahir is right by saying haq chhar yaar then be brave and say loud all others are saying that them alims right as well as you said he loves ahlebait , how you know others not love ahlebait who are doing that narha .

instead of arguing we can say narahs not important all alims scholer are ok if they say this narha or not and we need to respect all scholers why we put takfeer on moulana A and say the molana B is right because he got love with ahlebait .

That is not the answer if you saying other moulanas alims saying haq chaar yaar not right then say Dr tahir is wrong and put him with them and if you say no DR tahir is 100% right then bring all other scholers who saying haq chaar yaar and salute them all.

religion koi game hay jider jis ka dil caha uder moor di jider fida nazaer aya narha laga liya jahan nuqsan laga narha bund ik momin or ik mulsim ik munafiq ka furq hona cahiyee, muslim jo baat kehta hay us say badelta nahe hay .

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:50 AM (#15) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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View PostHamzah, on 17 June 2011 - 10:19 AM, said:



I personally feel that the haq chaar yaar response is a valid response. (To a matter which is not from the essentials of deen!!). To consider Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali to be on haq is not to say that the rest of the companions are not on haq. In the same way that to consider the Ashara Mubashara to be Jannati, does not mean the rest of the companions are excluded, Ma'azAllah.


The issue that remains is why Imam Hasan is excluded. The Naara is not specifically for khilafath, it symbolises the great status of these four companions of our Messenger SAWAS, as those who were his most closest aids. Syedina Hasan is the son of Syedina Ali, and so his relationship with Our Messenger SAWAS, differs from that of his father (RA) and his father's peers. If we are also to include imam hasan, then why should Imam Hussain be left out? This is just being picky and playing semantics. We could go on and on and find reasons and excuses to obstruct a lot of minor actions, which no one considers to be from the important matters of deen.


If mentioning of the blessed four is considered a problem then what will you say of Imam Busiri, who writes:
thumma al-rida `an abi bakrin wa `an `umarin / wa `an `aliyyin wa `an `uthmana dhi al-karami

And may Allah's good pleasure be with Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Ali, and `Uthman the noble one,




To be honest, I feel that this problem could have been avoided a long time ago, if we all started using the naare tahqiq in our gatherings, and everyone responded however they wish, be it chaar, panj or sab yaar. You would not really notice different replies. At least there would have been unity. But instead what we find is that in some gatherings, whilst the naara e tahqiq was not proclaimed at all, the naara e haidiri was used as a political tool, proclaimed many times repeatedly, though the naara e takbeer and risalat were only proclaimed once, and proclaimed more loudly. Outsiders feel that a point is trying to be made, and cant understand why there is such stubborness against shouting one small nara at the end - any nara, whatever you want to call it, in favour of the sahaba.




That's the other side to the story. As i have said before, the slogans are not as important as is what is in the heart. Nobody can hide that, nor can anybody else see that. As long as our love for the Blessed family and Blessed companions remians constant we have no concerns, InshaAllah.



very nice and detailed reply hamza bhai , you explain all that is only we do narha of nabi paak,s closest friends and who ever is saying that they respect all sahabha and only for this little issues if our alims and scholers or there followers if start takfeers or hatred that is not good thing , instaed of learning something we confusing ourselves.

and again the alims dont agree on this they got the similiar answers as well . And may be they thinking wisely not to confused the youngsters by making every year few new narahs better keep the one they saying before.

All good and sincear scholers need to look on all issues which are confusing the bummah better if they leave them but if they after fame , politics or want to let others down they will never sit quiet and they querrel argue for the big kursi .

If we put a stop on titles what we giving them , more than half problems will solve or take few titels back if they dont behave right.


same with useres here if they dont go emotional and do there own reserch and stop following blindly we can solve half problems.

what is a good scholers duty to unite the ummah and always avoid where ever any arguments can occur .

sab achy scholers ko apus main galy milna cahiyee apny titels kay haar utar ker or apny followers or mureeden ko mohabat ka ders dena cahiyee.
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:36 AM (#16) User is offline   NC1 

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After reading most of the posts related to this non runner....Ive got the accomodating answer...

look most of us gents know we can get excited during speeches especially if the speaker is of calibre, and we dont seem to mind giving it death in the heat of the momentthe number of Nara's that we "gala phaar phaar kar" say !!!

So, bearing in mind that both camps in this debate are of the opinion that "char yaar are on Haq" and "Sab Yaar are on Haq" ..... then say the Nara e Tahqeek TWICE !!!

Once to prove Haqqaniyat (and khusoosi affazaliyat) of "Char Yaar" "HAQ CHAAR YAAR" then again to prove Haqqaniyat of Sab Yaar by answering "HAQ SAB YAAR" :-)

or to our respected scholars would that be like accepting defeat ?
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:42 AM (#17) User is offline   Brother_MGS 

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View PostKhaaqi, on 17 June 2011 - 11:36 AM, said:

After reading most of the posts related to this non runner....Ive got the accomodating answer...

look most of us gents know we can get excited during speeches especially if the speaker is of calibre, and we dont seem to mind giving it death in the heat of the momentthe number of Nara's that we "gala phaar phaar kar" say !!!

So, bearing in mind that both camps in this debate are of the opinion that "char yaar are on Haq" and "Sab Yaar are on Haq" ..... then say the Nara e Tahqeek TWICE !!!

Once to prove Haqqaniyat (and khusoosi affazaliyat) of "Char Yaar" "HAQ CHAAR YAAR" then again to prove Haqqaniyat of Sab Yaar by answering "HAQ SAB YAAR" :-)

or to our respected scholars would that be like accepting defeat ?


What about the afzaliat of Imam Hussan(RA) and Imam Hussain(RA)? Are they not Afzal?

I believe Nareh Haidari should be before Narah Thaqeeq on the grounds and validness of saying Ya Ali Madad. If Moula Ali(AS) is Mushkil kusha shouldn't his Narah come before hand?

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:59 AM (#18) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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Naaaaaaaaaaaray Hamzaaaaaaaaaaaah - Zindabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Hamzah, it's just a game of semantics; something that a pathetic being like me always plays with people; 'cos i'm a bad-boy leading insurrections. You've pretty much summed my sentiments up; it's a parapeletic paranoia complex; they believe it's important because they give such a significance to the personality-cult side-show that we have in Islam.

I.Will.Back
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:33 PM (#19) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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I've flicked through the 'debate'; to be fair, Syed Abdul Qadir Sb were fair and sincere; Abdul Jalabi and his cronies, were absolutely reprehensible in their conduct.

Anyway, my 'reflections on the munazar' thread coming soon.

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:05 PM (#20) User is offline   hafiz-qadri 

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View Postpiara-madinah, on 17 June 2011 - 10:22 AM, said:

zuban koi vi howey sachian galan sachian hondiyan nain , tusi dosriyan di post sumjhiya vi keroo , ki tusi kehna cah ndey oh ky jenhan muzakira keta oh quran dey inkari nahe , eh zara laal aink la key tey chitty aink lawoo , tey ik hor munazira ker lawaoo kisi onhan dey wadhy dey naal jedha ilam vi pir qadir saab jinah howey .

tusi bas dosry part di burai jandey oh hoor kujh nazer nai awnda .

janab pir qadir sahub honhan eh forum purha dewoo tey shamt tohwadi aa si oh tusaan kehn gay saber kerna sikhoo tey aurtan wargon lurna chudoo .
koi hoor zuban awndi tey odhy wich vi gal ker lawoo zuban badlen moozoh nai badelda.



May kidi burai kehti,Asli tusi parday kuch aur ho tey samjday kuch aur ho,isi wastay may challa hoeegiya.Ik ghal sun meri jadu hun Manazara hoya utay tussi bay jana.May aurtan dey naal larda nahi ah,Tusi marda diya gala vich bolna Band karna siko,Karama waliyeah koi aur vi aurat dehki hay jo boldi hay.Quraan say koi bari daleel hai (urdu sorry)Agar hai tu samany laho.I rest my case.Samajdaro ki liye ishara he kafi hai.

HAQ SAB YAAR 160 LASHES FOR THOSE IN DENIAL
Haq Ali Ali Ali Moula Ali Ali Ali
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