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Sayyidi Mufakkir-e-islam Is Victorious In The Debate! Congratulations!

Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:57 PM (#21) User is offline   Ghulaam-e-Naqshband 

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Another very sad day for the Ummah. If the Sunnis don't stop these amateur theatricals, we will see an increase in the attacks by outsiders. A non issue has been blown out of proportions, that we have this drama now. Who is benefiting from this, certainly not the Ahle Sunnah wal Jammah. When the Ummah is being slaughtered like qurbani animals, our Ulema are debating a non issue which has no benefit in this world or in the next, instead I have not seen any "Lions of Bhikki" or any "Mufakkir" roling up the sleeves and going and helping the displaced people in Pakistan or putting a hand of shafqat on the head of an orphan and gain the pleasure of being in the company of the Beloved Salallahu Alaihi Wasalam in Jannah.

I like what Shaykh al Islam Dr Qadri Sahib have said, "This is not the time for Munaazras but Unity, as the enemies sword does not differentiate between beliefs, they only see you recite the Shahaadah."

May Allah give Hidaayat to our Ulema and make them see that they have their priorities wrong. Ameen.

Bedam yahin to paanch hain maqsoode kayenaat ......... Khairun Nisa, Hussain o Hasan, Mustafa, Ali

Kheera Na Kar Saka Mujhe Jalwa-E-Danish-E-Farang......Surma Hai Meri Aankh Ka Khak-E-Madina-O-Najaf.

Naseer Hum mein tho apnosi koi baat nahin......... Karam Hai unka jo Apna banaye baytte hain
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:00 PM (#22) User is offline   Qadri-Jilani 

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Sayyidi Mufakkir-e-Islam is going to deliver a short victory speech from the munazara room. Hazrat Sahib is still sat in the munazara room. Congratulations from me and everyone at yanabi.com!

Posted Image
Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:05 PM (#23) User is offline   Ashiq--e--Rasool 

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View PostGhulaam-e-Naqshband, on 13 June 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

Another very sad day for the Ummah. If the Sunnis don't stop these amateur theatricals, we will see an increase in the attacks by outsiders. A non issue has been blown out of proportions, that we have this drama now. Who is benefiting from this, certainly not the Ahle Sunnah wal Jammah. When the Ummah is being slaughtered like qurbani animals, our Ulema are debating a non issue which has no benefit in this world or in the next, instead I have not seen any "Lions of Bhikki" or any "Mufakkir" roling up the sleeves and going and helping the displaced people in Pakistan or putting a hand of shafqat on the head of an orphan and gain the pleasure of being in the company of the Beloved Salallahu Alaihi Wasalam in Jannah.

I like what Shaykh al Islam Dr Qadri Sahib have said, "This is not the time for Munaazras but Unity, as the enemies sword does not differentiate between beliefs, they only see you recite the Shahaadah."

May Allah give Hidaayat to our Ulema and make them see that they have their priorities wrong. Ameen.




I agree with you bro, I was against such debates from the beginning. Surely this will give other to point figures at Sunnis.

"This is not the time for Munaazras but Unity, as the enemies sword does not differentiate between beliefs, they only see you recite the Shahaadah." Very True
Kabr ke neendse uthna koi aasaan na tha
Hum to mehshar me unhe dekhne aayehue hai.
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:11 PM (#24) User is offline   Gangohi-Ka-Dushman 

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Did Molana Abid Jalali accept that he LOST the munazira? :o





Ya Ali
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:25 PM (#25) User is offline   JoeDacky 

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Salaam,

Congratulations to all.

The winner of this debate is not he who presents the strongest argument but he who showed patience, morals, refined character through out. Knowledge and presentation of evidence is one thing, which Muffakire Islam had no shortage of. Patience in the face of insults is something else. Thats the true hallmark of a winner. Patience is a great blessing that Allah (swt) has bestowed upon his chosen peoples and I am confident in saying that Muffakire Islam has this beautiful trait. May Allah (swt) give him a long life and give us benefit through him. Ameen.

PS: Maulana Jalali Sahib is fortunate he met Muffaikre Islam rather than another person. Somebody with less patience would have dashed all manner of objects across the room at him.

Bol Raha Hai Tan Man Saara Ali Ali!
Hai Mastoon Ka Har Dam Nara Ali Ali!
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:48 PM (#26) User is offline   ajaz_sunni 

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sorry to say until i see the WHOLE manazara without muting or any distrubtions i can't say who won or not. Also a response from the mufti in charge of the debate is required
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:48 PM (#27) User is offline   Brother_MGS 

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If I was debating Abid Jalali, I would have decked him in the face a few times.

Todays debate has proved that people on HAQ, people who have self confidence and know they are using the purest sources don't run away from debates. A person who has been teaching Islam before Jalali was born, has the blessings of the Buzurg Ulema is still sitting there. Mufakkir-e-Islam's expression is of a man that hasnt even started yet and the other party has ran away. Haq prevails regardless of the situation.

Abid Jalali showed his education levels today that of a village Mullah.

People who preach Haq, who live on Haq don't need to shout because only educated minds can grasp their arguements. The cancer of the Ahle Sunnat are hardcore Barelwis, thats why most Ulema pefer having their sufi lineage in their name instead of Barelwi.

If their are supporters of the other side on this forum, I would again like to ask wether their Murshid Irfan Shah Mashadi can prove his Sayyid lineage?

The only thing that comes to a sleeping man is dreams- Tupac Shakur
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:02 PM (#28) User is offline   Hamzah 

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One has to give a lot of credit to Shah Sahib for showing the higher moral ground in his character and self restraint.

As for the actual debate, the whole thing was a farce. There was no real discussion or critical analysis of the points that either party made - primarily due to the behavior of Moulana Jalali. This is not the way that an academic discussion takes place hence it is impossible to say which stance holds more weight.


As for one party or the other winning, trust me, nobody one that debate. Nobody but the deobandis, wahabis and Shias.


I was actually teaching during the debate, after class finished I went to the office and put it on and caught the last 20-30 minutes. Another teacher walked in and said to me, whats going on here? I told him its a debate. He asked, which one of the two is the wahabbi? SubhanAllah. I laughed and said they are BOTH Sunni. He said, wow, look at how they are shouting at each other, and they are both Sunni ?!!!! Put this debate into this context of how the ordinary Sunni Community sees this.


There was only about 500-600 people watching this debate. The rest of the Ahlus SUnnah community has no interest in this tit for tat fighting and disunity. We need to focus on the real issues of concern and those who waste their time on this type of discussion will find themselves more and more distant from the ordinary Sunni Muslim Community and its priorities.

Forget this crap and start working for the real cause of the Muslim Ummah. May Allah give us unity, love and sincerity.

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:14 PM (#29) User is online   Mudassar-Rana 

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Voice of sanity prevails br hamza. Never have so many got wound up over so little. I'm glad I never watched it - watching the grout dry on my tiles was more interesting!

I actually felt sorry for the pir sab from london - he has been exposed to something which is well beneath him - as i have said previousyl this never ought to have been entertained. A simple newspaper ad - outlining his views would have sufficed to shut people up.
my brothers are those who will believe in me, without having seen me.” [Ahmad, Musnad]

Jaag Muslmaan Jaag Muslmaan ... kitna naacho gai ghairon ki dhun par?Jis ummat mein rab ne sher paida kiye aaj wohi gheedar ka libaas apna muqaddar samjh bethi
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:32 PM (#30) User is offline   Qadri-Jilani 

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Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:37 PM (#31) User is offline   piara-madinah 

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lakin rana bhai admi sacha hota hay woh munazirha say inkar nahe kary ga lakin kion kay un ka urs bhi tha uder so they all may think ok we accept this munazirha lakin question to mr jlalai uger knowledge kum hay to sekhoo improve why he wants this munazirha when he did not knew anything even the rules of munazirha .

abid jalai esy lug rha tha jesy koi stage drmay ka actor shouting as sultan rahi us ko to itna nahe pata jahan Nabi paak saw ka naam liya ja rha quran kay refrence diya ja rahy shaba kiram ki azmat ko salam ho rha uder adub pehly shart hay or jis ko adub nahe atta woh or kiya janta ho ga , think twice mr jalali uger howa kabhi phir shikast khany ka mood .

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:44 PM (#32) User is offline   Gangohi-Ka-Dushman 

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View Postpiara-madinah, on 13 June 2011 - 10:37 PM, said:

lakin rana bhai admi sacha hota hay woh munazirha say inkar nahe kary ga lakin kion kay un ka urs bhi tha uder so they all may think ok we accept this munazirha lakin question to mr jlalai uger knowledge kum hay to sekhoo improve why he wants this munazirha when he did not knew anything even the rules of munazirha .

abid jalai esy lug rha tha jesy koi stage drmay ka actor shouting as sultan rahi us ko to itna nahe pata jahan Nabi paak saw ka naam liya ja rha quran kay refrence diya ja rahy shaba kiram ki azmat ko salam ho rha uder adub pehly shart hay or jis ko adub nahe atta woh or kiya janta ho ga , think twice mr jalali uger howa kabhi phir shikast khany ka mood .



:D Stage drama ka Actor :D


Well said Piarey bhaai, Did you see when Hazrat Pir saheb was reading the vers of Quran then Molana Abid Jalali interrupted Pir Saheb? :o

But how did he run away? They didnt show this in live broadcast. :o



Ya Ali
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:45 PM (#33) User is online   Mudassar-Rana 

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View Postpiara-madinah, on 13 June 2011 - 10:37 PM, said:

lakin rana bhai admi sacha hota hay woh munazirha say inkar nahe kary ga lakin kion kay un ka urs bhi tha uder so they all may think ok we accept this munazirha lakin question to mr jlalai uger knowledge kum hay to sekhoo improve why he wants this munazirha when he did not knew anything even the rules of munazirha .

abid jalai esy lug rha tha jesy koi stage drmay ka actor shouting as sultan rahi us ko to itna nahe pata jahan Nabi paak saw ka naam liya ja rha quran kay refrence diya ja rahy shaba kiram ki azmat ko salam ho rha uder adub pehly shart hay or jis ko adub nahe atta woh or kiya janta ho ga , think twice mr jalali uger howa kabhi phir shikast khany ka mood .




sis pm - kal me kaho ke mein tyson se boxing match karna hai - kiya woh ha karay ga ? Agar woh jeeta to logo ne kehna ke yaar is ne to jeetna hi tha agr woh har gaya to logo ne kehna ke is se aam banda nahi maara gaya. Yeh is debate ke baad hona hai - mein 1 min ke liye jo clip dekhi ti to us se hi pata chal gaya tha ke aik para likha betha hai aur aik jahil to yeh shah saab ke saath ziyadti hui ke us ko aik jahil ke aagay bethaya gaya jis ko itna nahi pata ke tameez kiya hoti hai? Sahi tara urdu nahi aati to baat kaise ho gi? Aukaat tab pata chal jaati hai jab urdu se punjabi mein aa jaatay hai . Haqeeqat yehi hai ke yeh hona nahi chahye tha.

mein ne aik minute ke liye jalali saab ko dekha to samjh lag gai yeh kis tara ka banda hai - us ke baad mein nehi dekha. Aur jo shah saab they wo waqay mein out of place lag raha they - discussion aur munaazra tab acha lagta jab baraabar ke log bethay ho - yeh sirf tamasha tha.
my brothers are those who will believe in me, without having seen me.” [Ahmad, Musnad]

Jaag Muslmaan Jaag Muslmaan ... kitna naacho gai ghairon ki dhun par?Jis ummat mein rab ne sher paida kiye aaj wohi gheedar ka libaas apna muqaddar samjh bethi
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:47 PM (#34) User is offline   Qadri-Jilani 

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I agree with Hamza to the point that on one side it was one of the most sickening experiences I have had. I never knew humans could sink to such a level and behave like that. It honestly became difficult for me to bear at times. I was expecting it from Abid Jalali because of his background, connections and silsila, but I was pretty shocked at the level he went to. He came just to do satanic acts and cause fitna. The books he brought with him were just a complete farce to fool people he was here for a munazara, clearly he was not.

It was never in our interest to debate, especially with these animals but they were throwing insults for a whole year so it was inevitable it had to come one day.

I feel sorry for the chair, Mufti Sulayman Sahib as due to his old age he was not able speak loudly at all but Abid Jalali had no respect for him, insulted him and never listened when he tried to moderate. Two of the people from Abid Jalali's side are his students.

I honestly salute Hazrat Mufakkir-e-Islam for showing patience and forbearance as well as courage. Abid Jalali's tactic was to make Hazrat Sahib angry from the word go but Hazrat Sahib did not insult him once.

We adhered to every agreed condition, he violated every single one

Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:00 PM (#35) User is offline   Qadri-Jilani 

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Even if Hazrat Mufakkir-e-Islam did not provide the two questions which Abid Jalali could not answer we still won the debate very early on when he did not accept the agreed conditions to which both parties are signatory. He then constantly violated every condition and rule of this munazara and the general rules of all munazaras.
Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:02 PM (#36) User is offline   JoeDacky 

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View PostQadri-Jilani, on 13 June 2011 - 10:47 PM, said:

He came just do satanic acts and cause fitna. The books he brought with him were just a complete farce to fool people he was here for a munazara, clearly he was not.



Salaam,

I share your views above. I think this was an image building exercise for Allama Abid Jalali Sahib, which went horribly wrong. Muffakire Islam seemed to have the issue wrapped in a matter of minutes, and then the howling started again. Having been defeated by ilm as well as hilm, they now have a excuse to say we were not there to win the debate any way, it was just to show you tafzilis up. Evident from the post below taken from a forum sympathetic to the cause of Allama Abid Jalali Sahib.

*********************************

This post has been edited by Qadri-Jilani: 13 June 2011 - 11:08 PM
Reason for edit: We dont allaow external refrences of this nature. Keep the dis. relevant to YaNabi.com

Bol Raha Hai Tan Man Saara Ali Ali!
Hai Mastoon Ka Har Dam Nara Ali Ali!
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:09 PM (#37) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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View PostTahir-Riaz, on 13 June 2011 - 08:35 PM, said:

Verbal gymnastic is appealing but it has nothing to do with the topic. If you heard Ap ka, you couldnt have missed "Mera bhi hay". Hence its a figure of speech.

I regret to say that Abid Jalali Sahab was there to slander his counterpart and not to debate him. As predicted nothing good came out of the debate. Unfortunatly this will polerize the Sunnis even more.
Lets work together bridg gaps :)

PS! I am warning all users not to use disrespectfull words against Abid Jalali Shahab. Please dont follow his example.


I also predicted nothing good will come out of this; but only make the 'religious crowd' look even bigger fools infront of the mis-guided muslims who refuse to entertain Islam in there lives; but some loser blind pir worshipping fantatic deleted the very valid points which are of note and value to those of us that aren't bootlickers.


Where is the refutation from these people of evolution, materialism, postmodernism and qunatum physics? Problems which are causing strife and tension to the muslims and our theological position of belief in the unity of God?

It also seems this same loser is unapproving more posts which dare to call out this farce for what it is!! Seems you can't have your post approved on here if you ain't licking the boots of pirs on yanabi.com. (I have approved the posts again.)

This post has been edited by Know-the-Ledge: 13 June 2011 - 11:12 PM

I.Will.Back
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:15 PM (#38) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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View PostGhulaam-e-Naqshband, on 13 June 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

Another very sad day for the Ummah. If the Sunnis don't stop these amateur theatricals, we will see an increase in the attacks by outsiders. A non issue has been blown out of proportions, that we have this drama now. Who is benefiting from this, certainly not the Ahle Sunnah wal Jammah. When the Ummah is being slaughtered like qurbani animals, our Ulema are debating a non issue which has no benefit in this world or in the next, instead I have not seen any "Lions of Bhikki" or any "Mufakkir" roling up the sleeves and going and helping the displaced people in Pakistan or putting a hand of shafqat on the head of an orphan and gain the pleasure of being in the company of the Beloved Salallahu Alaihi Wasalam in Jannah.

I like what Shaykh al Islam Dr Qadri Sahib have said, "This is not the time for Munaazras but Unity, as the enemies sword does not differentiate between beliefs, they only see you recite the Shahaadah."

May Allah give Hidaayat to our Ulema and make them see that they have their priorities wrong. Ameen.




Seems there's too much truism in this post for it to remain; so some fanatic hid it from view. i've brought it back and also quoted it, so people can read it twice and have a balanced, fair and diverse view and not just a halwa-munching boot kissing one.

I.Will.Back
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:15 PM (#39) User is offline   Hamzah 

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Posted Image


"And say to My slaves that they should (only) say those words that are the best. Shaytaan verily, sows a state of conflicts and disagreements amongst them. Surely, Shaytaan is to man a plain enemy." (Al Isra' 17:53)


This post has been edited by Hamzah: 13 June 2011 - 11:20 PM

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:19 PM (#40) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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View PostHamzah, on 13 June 2011 - 11:15 PM, said:

Posted Image


‎"And say to My slaves that they should (only) say those words that are the best. Shaytaan verily, sows a state of


conflicts and disagreements amongst them. Surely, Shaytaan is to man a plain enemy." (Al Isra' 17:53)



To VIP's, this basically means agreeing with them and their pir 100%; or you are given less respect than a toilet licking maggot. The problem isn't the words; it's the fact that fanatics who are blind head-bangers; can't stomach an opposing or diverse viewpoint.

After all the conflab; some loser is still unapproving posts; which step on his sensibilities that no one gives a damn about.

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