[qadrimuslim]

Azhari-Mia, on 10 May 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:

If Peer Syed Abdul Qadir Shah doesnt reject Haq Chaar Yaar, then why are they having a munazara on that topic?

The reason is simple. The fitnah baaz camp headed by Sultan Rahi decided they couldn't debate on anything else so issued a challenge in newspapers to debate on their wahabi inherited Nara Tahqeeq.

So THEY have started the whole Nara Tahqeeq vs Nara Haideri issue

ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC - but shows the world what sort of people are holding Sunnis back.

[qadrimuslim]

And just to remind all the brothers and sisters who are blessed with Aql - who are not blinded by childish propaganda

We believe ALL the 124,000 Blessed Companions (RA) are on HAQ
We believe the Khulafa e Rashideen (RA) are FIVE from the above
We believe the Ashra Mubashra (RA) are TEN from the above

In our majalis we already have a slogan "Shaan e Sahaba! Zindabad!"
We do not restrict HAQ to the first FOUR (RA) but we agree that the first FOUR (RA) were the closest to Sayyiduna Rasoolallah (SAWAW)

Is that simple enough to understand?

Does it really need a debate? if not, then it begs the questions why certain people are begging for a debate.

Those who Allah gave the gift of sight through TWO EYES, can clearly SEE the real agenda of these trouble makers.

[Qadri-Jilani]

Remember:

truth is not the exclusive domain of any one scholar, what matters is the soundness of argument.

[Imran.]

Strange that the same brevi extremists fearing certain members of their cultish forum may be warming to Dr Sahib(over this issue) have started a fresh hate campaign against him,with their head honch trying an indepth rebuttal of the dawa tactics of minhajul quran.

"Dont call him sunni"

"This could be kufr,that could be kufr, wa waa waaaaa"!

Insecurities of the Brelvi cult(they've become one in recent years unfortunately),eh!

[Imran.]

Qadri-Jilani, on 12 May 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Remember:

truth is not the exclusive domain of any one scholar, what matters is the soundness of argument.

You've obviously not met a brelvi then.

[Brother_MGS]

Imran., on 12 May 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

You've obviously not met a brelvi then.

Scholars like these are a nasty dent. They are denting the image of Ala Hazrat ImameAhleSunnat Imam Ahmed Raza(ra) who they preclaim to follow. They are just using his name to popularise thier own image.

Whats even more striking is Dr Tahir Ul Qadri has spoken of Ala Hazrat(ra) in such high regard. He has backed and proved the title of Mujaddid given to Imam Ahmed Raza(ra).




These are only a few videos Dr Allama Qadri refers to Ala Hazrat(ra) in high regard. I think Dr Sahibs even written books and commentry on works of Ala Hazrat(ra).

For every moment our Ulema argue amongst each other, thats a moment gone in forwarding this Aqeedah. And what hurts is Scholars such as Dr Tahir Ul Qadri and Muffakir e Islam have done alot for Deen. Have brought alot of followers of different aqeedahs to the Ahle Sunnat. Actively promote the message of Islam and RasoolAllah(SAW) aswel as our Aqeedah.

[Know-the-Ledge]

Qadri-Jilani, on 12 May 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Remember:

truth is not the exclusive domain of any one scholar, what matters is the soundness of argument.

LOL @ Imran's response to this. This rule warms my heart; it restores my faith in humanity and the academic tradition of Islam; I shall ignore the obvious deviation from this ideal and sing the praise of this truism.

[Qadri-Jilani]

Imran., on 12 May 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

You've obviously not met a brelvi then.

This is exactly the problem, or illness I should say that many of our brethren are inflicted with.

Just because a certain scholar says something does not automatically give it the weight of truth and authenticity. All arguments, rather, should be judged on their soundness.

Our great Imams are honoured and respected because of the strength of argument and reasoning contained in much of their discourse; it’s not the other way round where the argument is regarded as truth simply because one of these Imams said it.

We have the Qur’an, Sunnah and the Islamic sciences (all complementing each other of course) and all arguments made should face the scrutiny of both the textual and rational sciences and once they go through such a process of examination should we accept and adopt a particular position.

The saying of Sayyiduna Ali comes to mind: Don’t look at who is saying it but rather look at what is being said (la tanzur ila man qala wa’nzur ila ma qala).

[qadrimuslim]

My honest observation :- most of this is politics at a new low

we have insignificant mullahs worshipping their own ego and satisfying their hatred of popular Ulema and Mashaikh

simples..

[QadriG]

Azhari-Mia, on 10 May 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:

If Peer Syed Abdul Qadir Shah doesnt reject Haq Chaar Yaar, then why are they having a munazara on that topic?

If Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib says HAQ CHAR YAAR is good but HAQ SAB YAAR is better

And Syed Irfan Shah says HAQ SAB YAAR IS GOOD but HAQ CHAR YAAR is better

Then why not have 1 nara 4 HAQ CHAR YAAR
and 1 for HAQ SAB YAAR

[Shaykh_Kahn]

The First 4 Yaars Where Appointed By Allah Subhantallah Yes The Rest Where On Haq Aswell.

For Instance Im Peer Lol, I Have Many Mureed But Im Gonna Have Few That Are My Special Mureeds, Same Thing Has Been Applied With The 4 Yaar.

The Same Way One Has Friends They Are My 4 Best Friends Lol Doesnt Mean The Rest Arent. Simple Logical Common Sense Applied And Answer Found.

But Then Again Its Pointless Discussing This, And We Have Other More Important Issues At Hand.

Jazakallah

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Shaykh_Kahn, on 01 February 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

The First 4 Yaars Where Appointed By Allah Subhantallah Yes The Rest Where On Haq Aswell.

For Instance Im Peer Lol, I Have Many Mureed But Im Gonna Have Few That Are My Special Mureeds, Same Thing Has Been Applied With The 4 Yaar.

The Same Way One Has Friends They Are My 4 Best Friends Lol Doesnt Mean The Rest Arent. Simple Logical Common Sense Applied And Answer Found.

But Then Again Its Pointless Discussing This, And We Have Other More Important Issues At Hand.

Jazakallah

Just something you say does not make complete sense to me. If Allah has appointed the first 4, then you have said that Imam Hassan the 5th was NOT appointed by God therefore not as special in status than the rest of them.

Isn't it strange that those who may be less in status have the title of leaders of all Men in Jannat? Is this not a contradiction, what are we to deduce from the order of caliphate in this case; that it does not prove exclusivity nor superiority?

This post has been edited by Fatema-the-resplendent: 01 February 2012 - 11:49 PM

[Mudassar-Rana]

Just something you say does not make complete sense to me. If Allah has appointed the first 4, then you have said that Imam Hassan the 5th was NOT appointed by God therefore not as special in status than the rest of them



Lets say a leading light of the non muslim world wishes to learn more about islam;

Lets say he wants to know what topics the leading lights of the muslim world are debating;

What would his/her (i added the her just for u sis FTR!) reaction be to find that the foremost discussions amongst muslim scholars is... erm the construct of a slogan at gatherings?

If a joe blogg like me with little knowledge of anything special can think of this and be embarrassed for the sake of the ummah - why cant the learned people of this ummah - those who are supposed to have the interest of the ummah above all?

[qadrimuslim]

Br MR I think you'll find it's not simply about the slogan.. Books have even been written on the subject!!

its about our Aqeeda

slogans can be anything you want them to be as long as they don't go against Shariah. We hear some weird and wonderful stuff in our mehfils and its not a problem.

as far the Haq Yar subject in particular, we are talking about our Aqeeda of the Blessed Companions (RA) - a topic that should be discussed with some delicacy. People begin to ask questions when you only say 4 are Haq. Sayyidi Mufakkir e Islam was not and IS not the only scholar who took an intellectual issue with it and AlHamdulillah after successfully winning the debate with the chosen person from the opposing camp, many people have accepted that it is better to say HAQ SAB YAR because it is proven by many verses of the Qur'an and many Ahadith including the famous Hadith "As-Sahabi Kulluhum Udool". This Hadith was recently quoted in the Fatwa from GolRa Shareef to defend Hazrat Amir Muawiyah (RA). So as you can gather.. All the Sahaba are Haq - not just the 4.

Our point has been made..

[qadrimuslim]

Shaykh_Kahn, on 01 February 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

The First 4 Yaars Where Appointed By Allah Subhantallah

Divinely Appointed? Really?

[Desert-Sheikh]

Sab halwey Khane ke bahane hein... jaib bharne ke tariqey....

Name any Mullah or shaykh who challenged tyranny (in this or previous century)??
Any Sayyed who act in the tradition of Imam Hussain??

Mullah-o-Sufi, both are tyrants bootlickers. Just to divert our attention from actual matters, they intentionally keep us busy with such issues.

[qadrimuslim]

DS Can you please allow the brother to respond to my question over his claim that the Khulafa are DIVINELY APPOINTED.

first time I ever heard such a thing from a Sunni. Seems to me that some groups are going to extremes. Like the Shia when they claim the Imams are Divinely Appointed.

[Mudassar-Rana]

[quote name='qadrimuslim' timestamp='1328152026' post='441185']
[color="#0000FF"][size="4"][font="Tahoma"]Br MR I think you'll find it's not simply about the slogan.. Books have even been written on the subject!!

its about our Aqeeda

slogans can be anything you want them to be as long as they don't go against Shariah. We hear some weird and wonderful stuff in our mehfils and its not a problem.

Br. Qm with all due respect to your opinion - i disagree with this whole issue. infact to deem it an issue is an insult. I think further that the mureeds of mufakir have spent more time on this issue than the mufakir himself. It was time to move on once the book had been written and the discussion finished.

One thing i have noticed about 99% of ulema of indian subcontinent at least is that there scope is very narrow. I recall a couple of years ago nawaz sharif at a rally of pir siddiqui where the pir saab introduced him as some sort of modern salahuddin. Im not saying anything bad about any pir saab all im saying is that because we have secularised deen they only really understand minor topics and have very little knowledge about wider and more pertinent matters.

If i may be allowed i think a new slogan should be incorporated - Bas Kar Yar. I cant believe i interrupted my paratha to reply to you!Lol!

[Desert-Sheikh]

Mudassar-Rana, on 02 February 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

One thing i have noticed about 99% of ulema of indian subcontinent at least is that there scope is very narrow. I recall a couple of years ago nawaz sharif at a rally of pir siddiqui where the pir saab introduced him as some sort of modern salahuddin. Im not saying anything bad about any pir saab all im saying is that because we have secularised deen they only really understand minor topics and have very little knowledge about wider and more pertinent matters.

If i may be allowed i think a new slogan should be incorporated - Bas Kar Yar. I cant believe i interrupted my paratha to reply to you!Lol!

Sheher Mein Aa Gaye Hein Kiss Kay Qadam
Saari Basti Nay Khud-kushi Kar Li

Ab Kisi Rahzan Ko Dhoondein Gain
Rahbron Nay To Rahbari Kar Li

Deikh Kar Waqt Kay Khuda'on Ko
Hum Nay Khud Apni Bandagi Kar Li

[qadrimuslim]

Mudassar-Rana, on 02 February 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Br. Qm with all due respect to your opinion - i disagree with this whole issue. infact to deem it an issue is an insult.

If i may be allowed i think a new slogan should be incorporated - Bas Kar Yar. I cant believe i interrupted my paratha to reply to you!Lol!

If it insults your intelligence so much, then perhaps you shouldn't have interrupted your paratha to discuss the matter..

I added the Hanif Qureshi video for everyone so we take heed from his balanced advice, which I appreciate. Maybe you should watch it?

Quote

One thing i have noticed about 99% of ulema of indian subcontinent at least is that there scope is very narrow. I recall a couple of years ago nawaz sharif at a rally of pir siddiqui where the pir saab introduced him as some sort of modern salahuddin. Im not saying anything bad about any pir saab all im saying is that because we have secularised deen they only really understand minor topics and have very little knowledge about wider and more pertinent matters.

I can agree with some of this, except from the unnecessary targetting of Pir Siddiqi..

Indo-Pak Islam is tarnished with sectarianism, hatred and village mentality - most of the new generations have recognised this and look for a fresher version. Unfortunately our elders are still entrenched in the back home style and our Mashaikh are usually even older than them!

But you are wrong when you say the Mashaikh "have very little knowledge about wider and more pertinent matters". This simply smacks of bughz of the Mashaikh and refusal to recognise the hard work they have done and sacrifices they have made for people like me and you.