[Fatema-the-resplendent]

TMS

I admire your ability to see things from a perspective many others are not able to, detaching yourself I suppose is a good way to keep the peace within your faith.

I think if we call ourselves Representatives of faith and honesty which ofcourse includes ones conscience, it is hard to turn a blind eye on the actions of people who represent religion for us.

Khalid Bin Waleed is a sahaba of RasoolAllah there is no doubt nor is there any doubt on his servcies for Islam. He changed from someone wanting to attack RasoolAllah like Hazrat Omar to someone who spent his life in the service of Islam. BUT dear sister, it grieves me that we are afraid of the truth when it comes to Religion. The mind wonders and can not accept that such great people have been responsible for actions which would be quite shameful in todays terms. Killing someone is a huge crime in Islam, so is killing someone and taking their wife even before her iddah is over let alone if she agreed to the union. Then he is forgiven, without test or trial. Let us not forget the slaughter of the tribe of judhim who he was supposed to invite to Islam and perhaps killed them to settle old scores of enmity.
There is more on him but I am sure information is readily available to everyone and they can find out for themselves. Now I am not trying to character assasinate him I am trying to understand what kind of people are we holding as heroes? He does not even compare to Imam Ali AS because the moral decency and HAYA of Ali is unmatched. Asadullah, their is only one lion of Allah. 

I want to know how RasoolAllah would have dealt with such a situation, Islam is against murder, violence, slaughter, compulsion and adheres to the fundamentals of Justice. I know we say that everyone makes mistakes, yes they do but not so big ones and get forgiven too.

So the conclusion is it is important, it has relevance, it exposes the writers favouritism towards certain personalities within Islam.

I am in favour of open, fair dialogue and academic research when it comes to Islam. I do not believe in perhaps and maybes, they serve no purpose to a logical deduction to what is right.

The all is goood, everyone is right is weak. Lastly, Secularism may indeed be the saving grace for so many Religiously frustrated people in the world atleast it provides certainty and allows one to practice Islam the way they see fit.

If only I could believe that Bro SR is less God conscious than Ghulam e Naqshband, But I can't and I won't.

 

[JoeDacky]

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Imran. (13.04.2011)

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Joe_Dacky (12.04.2011)

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. Its not as simple as it reads above and I think it's unfair on those who are n ot privy to the full account of what took place. The man involved was not just a mere enemy, rather he was also a companion of the The Messenger of Allah (s.a.a.w), known as Syedna Malik bin Nuwayrah (r.a). After he was killed, his widow, Umm Tamim (r.a) was married to Syedna Khalid bin Walid (r.a) BEFORE the expiration of the period of Iddah. Some accuse him of being unjust. Others say he he made a mistake and is not subject to punishment. Syedna Umar (r.a) condemned the actions of Syedna Khalid bin Walid (r.a) but Syedna Abu Bakr (r.a), on the other hand excused him 

So according to you,hadhrat khalid bin walid(ra) killed a muslim,and married his wife before her iddah was over thereby the marriage being invalid,therefore zinnah(maza'Allah),and on top of that Siddiq e Akbar(ra) forgave  the hadd punishment for both these accusations that are upon khalid bi waleed(ra)?

Not only have you accused khalid bin waleed of a gross intentional wrong but Abu bakr saddiq of two more.

Salaam,

Allah (swt) knows thats not what I intended. I made a gross error of judgement by only reading one side of the story. Terrible mistake and I should have known better. Brother thank you for correcting me.

[Mudassar-Rana]

Secularism the saving grace !

Could we just count how many people secularists have killed? And how many religious bigots/zealots have?

Its a shame that secularism is associated with freedom of speech - D notice's are just something to protect ordinary gullible folk.

Render unto ceasar what is Ceasers and render unto God what is God's - so said alledgedly Jesus Christ NOT muhammad s.a.w and if jesus was right then I suppose when the mind wanders the question would arise that was rasool e kareem s.a.w wrong?

Its a shame that you compare him to syedna ali a.s for no man compares to him. If that is the yardstick to disgrace then there is no hope for any of us. 

[Imran.]

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Fatema the resplendent (13.04.2011)

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Killing someone is a huge crime in Islam, so is killing someone and taking their wife even before her iddah is over let alone if she agreed to the union. Then he is forgiven, without test or trial. In another incident he has killed a Sahabi of RasoolAllah called Malik Bin Nuwayrah who he accused of being Mutad, after he sleeps with his wife!! now I am not trying to character assasinate him I am trying to understand what kind of people are we holding as heroes? Let us not forget the slaughter of the tribe of judhim who he was supposed to invite to Islam and perhaps killed them to settle old scores of enmity.

Please broaden your reading dear sister,answering ansar or shia chat are just one side of the twisted/ concocted argument.



 

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I want to know how RasoolAllah would have dealt with such a situation and how on earth is this allowed in the name of Islam?

 

Well you know perfectly well how RasoolAllah(Alayh Assalaam) dealt with the issue of tribe of judhim,and in what  regard he held khalid bin walid in, up until his departing to the next world.

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Mudassar Rana

If questioning to satiate the mind is wrong then guilty as charged. It's a difficult path to tread but tread I must.

Innhi pathron peh chal ke agar asako to ayo,mere ghar ke raaste mein kahin kehkashan nahin hai.

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Imran

You see the thing with history is it does not affiliate itself with any one sect. It either is or isn't. In this case it was and even YOU can not deny it.

I've got no problem with you holding him in high esteem at the end of the day he has been in the company of our beloved prophet. I just wanted to highlight that all that glitters isn't gold.

[Ghulaam-e-Naqshband]

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Fatema the resplendent (13.04.2011)

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TMS

I admire your ability to see things from a perspective many others are not able to, detaching yourself I suppose is a good way to keep the peace within your faith.

I think if we call ourselves Representatives of faith and honesty which ofcourse includes ones conscience, it is hard to turn a blind eye on the actions of people who represent religion for us.

Khalid Bin Waleed is a sahaba of RasoolAllah there is no doubt nor is there any doubt on his servcies for Islam. He changed from someone wanting to attack RasoolAllah like Hazrat Omar to someone who spent his life in the service of Islam. BUT dear sister, it grieves me that we are afraid of the truth when it comes to Religion. The mind wonders and can not accept that such great people have been responsible for actions which would be quite shameful in todays terms. Killing someone is a huge crime in Islam, so is killing someone and taking their wife even before her iddah is over let alone if she agreed to the union. Then he is forgiven, without test or trial. Let us not forget the slaughter of the tribe of judhim who he was supposed to invite to Islam and perhaps killed them to settle old scores of enmity.
There is more on him but I am sure information is readily available to everyone and they can find out for themselves. Now I am not trying to character assasinate him I am trying to understand what kind of people are we holding as heroes? He does not even compare to Imam Ali AS because the moral decency and HAYA of Ali is unmatched. Asadullah, their is only one lion of Allah. 

I want to know how RasoolAllah would have dealt with such a situation, Islam is against murder, violence, slaughter, compulsion and adheres to the fundamentals of Justice. I know we say that everyone makes mistakes, yes they do but not so big ones and get forgiven too.

So the conclusion is it is important, it has relevance, it exposes the writers favouritism towards certain personalities within Islam.

I am in favour of open, fair dialogue and academic research when it comes to Islam. I do not believe in perhaps and maybes, they serve no purpose to a logical deduction to what is right.

The all is goood, everyone is right is weak. Lastly, Secularism may indeed be the saving grace for so many Religiously frustrated people in the world atleast it provides certainty and allows one to practice Islam the way they see fit.

If only I could believe that Bro SR is less God conscious than Ghulam e Naqshband, But I can't and I won't.

 

OK I was going to avoid posting on this topic, as it is just another cheap stunt by a Secularist extremist to score cheap points at the expense of the honour of a Great Sahaabi (May Allah be Pleased with him), but since I get a mention in the post by FTR (don't know why), I will have to add my small contribution.

Two people have been harping on about and questioning the greatness of Hazrat Khalid bin al Waleed (May Allah be Pleased with him) recently on Yanabi.com, yet they fail to provide a single authentic reference to back up their arguments, while the opposite side have produced post after post with evidence. As both of you on the sinking boat have no clue to what your own arguments are about, rest your case and move on.

FTR no matter how many posts you create to question the integrity of the Sahaaba, it will not have an iota of affect on them as Allah the Almighty has said of them : "Allah is well pleased with them and they are pleased with Him" (Surah Tawbah)

 

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

Ghulam e Naqshband

Typical emotional rebuttal, even the secularist-which may not even exist in me is laughing at it, lol. I so wish you could knock sense into me but it's just that only what satisfies me intellectually will be of value.

 

[Mudassar-Rana]

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Fatema the resplendent (13.04.2011)

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Mudassar Rana

If questioning to satiate the mind is wrong then guilty as charged. It's a difficult path to tread but tread I must.

Innhi pathron peh chal ke agar asako to ayo,mere ghar ke raaste mein kahin kehkashan nahin hai.

This whole life is about mental satisfaction, without which one can never lead a life of content. Nevertheless mental satisfaction is not derived from questioning personalities but is derived for the certainty which your aqeedah gives you. i.e. belief in Allah and belief in the quran.

And if rasool allah s.a.w has said something then because of my tawakkal in allah and his kitab then I take the word of the mightiest of messengers to be as real as that which I can touch, feel and sense etc. I believe that my rasool s.a.w was divinely inspired and therefore he could not err. And if he could not err he could not have been wrong about Khalid r.a or any other sahabi that people question i.e Aisha r.a. , Umar/abu bakr r.a., Abu huraira r.a.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your attempt to compare Syedna Ali a.s with Khalid r.a - not because a comparison couldnt be made - because fools will try anything but because my rasool s.a.w said Ali a.s was his brother. Therefore no man compares to him. Nevertheless the feats of Khalid r.a when compared with any mere mortal do not deserve this type of character assassination by insinuation. If it was really an attempt to satiate the mind then I would have expected you to simply lay out the charges openly. This type of exercise of "democratic/secularist right to insult" those esteemed by allah's messenger s.a.w  is futile, because similar attacks are laid at the door of the messenger s.a.w himself by secularists who view 6th century arabia through 21st century cosmopolitan reading eyes. 


Never did I question your right - i questioned the methodology employed. i.e mind already made up. This complex that you are a lone secular ranger fighting a battle amongst a hoard of religious bigots and thugs is akin to the jews crying about the holocaust all the time. It is my contention that remove deen from outside the mosque i.e secularism is to insinuate that our rabb and his rasool s.a.w were incompetent and could not legislate for human nature. Mine and your favourite islamic personality syedna ali a.s said that this ummah could not be straighted without an amir! This ummah isnt dead therefore it still needs an amir. Therefore that isnt secularism. Anti mullahism shouldnt push one into the secular camp because the biggest secularists are the mullah themselves. Who teach people to run their lives according to their wishes and leave funerals, prayers  and shariah to them.  

[Imran.]

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Fatema the resplendent (13.04.2011)

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Imran

You see the thing with history is it does not affiliate itself with any one sect. It either is or isn't. In this case it was and even YOU can not deny it.

Well in that case we have a dilemma, because the report(s) in regards to khalid bin walid marrying the wife of malik bin nuwayrah are all with defective and broken isnads with Umar ibn Sayf being one of the reporters in the chain,this umar ibn sayf is known as a forger of hadith and highly unreliable by concensus of ulema of rijaal,but the most important point is that this very same umar ibn Sayf is the one that also reports or is included in the reports regarding Abdullah ibn saba(being the founder of shia sect).

So in reality its not in favour of any sect really is it?

I mean if you believe him then you have to believe him about Abdullah ibn sabah too,whereas if you now decide to reject him,then welcome to my world.

[Desert-Sheikh]

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Fatema the resplendent (13.04.2011)
Khalid Bin Waleed is a sahaba of RasoolAllah there is no doubt nor is there any doubt on his servcies for Islam. He changed from someone wanting to attack RasoolAllah like Hazrat Omar to someone who spent his life in the service of Islam. BUT dear sister, it grieves me that we are afraid of the truth when it comes to Religion. The mind wonders and can not accept that such great people have been responsible for actions which would be quite shameful in todays terms. Killing someone is a huge crime in Islam, so is killing someone and taking their wife even before her iddah is over let alone if she agreed to the union. Then he is forgiven, without test or trial. In another incident he has killed a Sahabi of RasoolAllah called Malik Bin Nuwayrah who he accused of being Mutad, after he sleeps with his wife!! now I am not trying to character assasinate him I am trying to understand what kind of people are we holding as heroes? Let us not forget the slaughter of the tribe of judhim who he was supposed to invite to Islam and perhaps killed them to settle old scores of enmity..

 

Well, it's all been written in the books, and you cannot find a single book by an unbiased observer. Holy Quran is the only authentic and authoritative book but it's hard to find an utterly impartial translation because every sect (Shia, Sunni, Wahabi) interpret the Quran the way they want. And here we are now talking about books, written by humans (all were definitely not Hajji-Sahibs), based on their knowledge and perceptions.
Especially when it comes to Islamic-history, we interpret the same text in different ways to suit our best. Now, in the present day, we cannot testify for the events occurred 1400 years before. So, we can either consider someone hero or zero basing on our personal-affiliations or the interpretations we believe.
In such condition, i listen to my own instincts that tell me to hold Hazrat Khalid bin Walid radi Allahu anhu as hero and he was always my hero. It's not being a sheep and following certain ideologies blindly but about believing something that i want to believe and i can't force it on others, they are free to make their own mind as people only believe what they want to believe.
Koun Taqon Pe Raha Koun Sar-e-Rah-Guzar
Shehar Ke Saare Charagon Ko Hawa Janti He

[Khalid_the_Warrior]

Let’s look at the issues without being emotional which are mentioned in this topic again and again.

These are historical issues, and must be treated as such. This means that in judging their historicity one should firstly include all the evidence which exists around the issue, both general and specific, and secondly, be objective enough to look critically at the authenticity of one’s material.Seeking to brand persons, and more especially the Sahabah , as corrupt and irreligious on grounds of only one side of the available evidence, and stubbornly refusing to critically scrutinise the historical material upon the basis of which a claim of this serious nature is made, can only point to thefact that the accusers have an agenda— an agenda which they are committed top romote and uphold, no matter to what extent truth and honesty might be compromisedin the process.

When Hazrat Khalid ibe Waled Killed Malik bin Nawarah. In Sayyiduna Khalid’sparty was the Sahabi Sayyiduna Abu Qatadah . He was amongst those who claimed that they had seen Malik’s people making salah. He was thus understandable upset at the decision of Sayyiduna Khalid, and returned immediately to Madinah to complain to Sayyiduna Abu Bakr . Sayyiduna ‘Umar insisted that Khalid beremoved from his position as commander on account of his impetuousness. Khalid was summoned back to Madinah and interrogated by the khalifah, who concluded that Khalid’s deed was an error of judgement, for which it was not necessary to dismiss him

Sayyiduna Abu Bakr t was guided in this decision by two things. Firstly,the hadith of Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam wherein he described Khalid as “the sword which Allah unsheathed against the Unbelievers”. The second was the fact that a similar occurrence took place in the time of Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam, also with Khalid ibn al-Walid.He was put in command by Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam of an expedition to Banu Jadhimah. When Khalid asked them to accept Islam they responded by saying “saba’na, saba’na”,a word which literally means “We have become Sabeans”, but which had come to beused in the general sense of changing one’s religion. To Khalid this was not sufficient evidence of their acceptance of Islam, and he gave the order fortheir execution. When the news of their execution reached Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam helifted his hands and said, “O Allah, I dissociate myself from what Khalid hasdone.”Although Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam dissociated himself from the haste Khalid made himself guilty of, he did not punish him, since it was an error in judgement onhis part. A very regrettable error it was, but it was still an error. It was for this reason that Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam did not hesitate to give Khalid command over other expeditions as well. Shortly after the Banu Jadhimah incident Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam entrusted him with the mission to destroy the temple of the pagan goddess ‘Uzzaat a place called Nakhlah.In Jumada al-Ula in the year 10 AH he was sent on ada‘wah mission to Banu Harith ibn Ka‘b, and they accepted Islam at his handswithout a drop of blood being shed.It was also to Khalid that Rasulullah rentrusted the expedition to Ukaydir ibn ‘Abd al-Malik.

Above all there was the day, at the battle of Mu’tah in the year 8 AH,when Khalid ibn al-Walid would prove his valour and military genius by saving the day for Islam and the Muslim ummah in its first ever encounter with the Roman Empire. The three generals appointed by Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam all attained martyrdom in succession, and the standard was taken over by the valiant Khalid,who through his sheer genius managed to save the honour of Islam by effecting atactical withdrawal after what seemed like certain defeat. Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam was informed by Allah of what had happened at Mu’tah, and although his eyes were filled with tears at the martyrdom of his beloved cousin Ja‘far ibn Abi Talib,his adopted son Zayd ibn Harithah and the poet ‘Abdullah ibn Rawahah y , he sallalho alhe waslam reason to give the Muslims in Madinah the glad tidings of Khalid’s victory,saying, “then the standard was taken up by a Sword from amongst the Swords ofAllah, and upon his hands did Allah grant victory.”

 

All of this show that Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam saw the Banu Jadhimah incident, asregrettable as it was, as a mistake on the part of Khalid. In not punishing Khalidfor the execution of Malik ibn Nuwayrah, and not dismissing him from his postas commander, Sayyiduna Abu Bakr t was thus completely justified. His interrogation of Khalid revealed that Khalid had committed an error of judgement, and the insistence of Sayyiduna ‘Umar t that Khalid be dismissed wasmet by a resolute answer form Sayyiduna Abu Bakr t : “I will not sheath the sword that was drawn by Allah.” Like Rasulullah sallalho alhe waslam did in the case of Banu Jadhimah,Sayyiduna Abu Bakr paid out blood money to Malik’s brother Mutammim, and ordered the release of all captives taken by Khalid.

 

[Know-the-Ledge]

He does not even compare to Imam Ali AS because the moral decency and HAYA of Ali is unmatched. Asadullah, their is only one lion of Allah. 



Deary me! Where did that come from? If Imam Ali (AS) is the barometer; then I think history should  form an orderly queue to be whipped. Everything that glitters may not be gold, but the secularists should tell you that they've been trolling the same tripe out about Rasoolullah (SAL) for centuries.

We say Rasoolullah (SAL) was such an accomplished Prophet He left no part of our life untouched and illuminated it all with guidance. Secualrists say, "haha, he taught you how to wash your arse!!" As Desert Sheikh said. just depends on how you skin the cat of ilm.

FTR, your secularism is a charade, because all I see is some serious under-tones of secatarian fundamentalism. You and SR are not peas from the same pod; he doesn't give a damn about what you so intrepidly say (to be frank, neither do I). Before you put mitti over this, let's remember, you're the one snotting on us about your such esteemed secular credentials and treating the so called bigots as idiots. All i'm saying is, stop putting a halo on your own sectarian bigotry, dressing it up and dignifying your smearing as a 'search for the truth'. We don't put our roti in our ears you know.

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

KTL

I have never said once said I am a secularist, it is something everyone assumes I am. I will allow you all to think like that because I really am quite careless about how others perceive me.  I also think SR to be a better thinker than most people on this website, it does not mean that him and I think alike he has his own experiences and I have mine. I am as you put it a seeker of truth and ravings rantings about presumed affiliations does not ruffle my feathers. I am content in how I live and how I think, it's a shame you can't pigeonhole me because I am free, free from the shackles of brelvism, from Ahle sunnah Wal jamah, from Shiaism, even secularism, and every extreme view that is deceptive, fantastically over dramatised and devoid of satisfactory sense.

Just in case you miss it, most of what you say is irrelevant to me too, story telling is a good quality but knowledge is another thing altogether. If you honestly believe what you think about me has any bearings on me then I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Have a good day.

[Know-the-Ledge]

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Fatema the resplendent (13.04.2011)

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KTL

I have never said once said I am a secularist, it is something everyone assumes I am. I will allow you all to think like that because I really am quite careless about how others perceive me.  I also think SR to be a better thinker than most people on this website, it does not mean that him and I think alike he has his own experiences and I have mine. I am as you put it a seeker of truth and ravings rantings about presumed affiliations does not ruffle my feathers. I am content in how I live and how I think, it's a shame you can't pigeonhole me because I am free, free from the shackles of brelvism, from Ahle sunnah Wal jamah, from Shiaism, even secularism, and every extreme view that is deceptive, fantastically over dramatised and devoid of satisfactory sense.

Just in case you miss it, most of what you say is irrelevant to me too, story telling is a good quality but knowledge is another thing altogether. If you honestly believe what you think about me has any bearings on me then I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Have a good day.

You know, one of lifes most amusing irony's, over which I dribble on my bib, time and time again, is people who constantly fret and tell other's that they are ambivalent in how they are perceived, over and over, you know, just incase you missed it - honestly. Because they are by far the most concerned with making sure that others view is shaped a certain way. It's such a paradox; but wets my pants with lots of har har.

If you honestly believe we care if your feathers are ruffled, you only mock your own self-importance, the self-importance that treats others like idiots and fawns over somoene who thinks like itself; 'doosro se dosti, aur voh bhi apni self-importance keh liye'.

Knowledge might be a good quality, but wisdom is an alltogether different thing; living everyday trying to make a dollar out of 50 cents in the proverbial sense, is good enough for me! Do let me know when you get to the route of this topic; i'll give you all a big star, until then, it's all redundant his-story to me.

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

Don't mean to be caddish

G'day!

[The-Mughal-Sister]

Unfortunately it seems the topic is drifting off the core issue and evolved into the business of character assassinations.

Sister Fatema has raised some questions about the Warrior Khalid Bin Waleed and fair enough, it’s about education and progression.

Brothers Rana Saab, Imran and Khalid the Warrior have given knowledgeable in depth answers, and should continue to do so. This thread can be dedicated to the greatness of Khalid Bin Waleed and answering the questions lurking in the air by history.

No one means disrespect, that I am sure, Sister Fatema is a knowledgeable sister and I commend her knowledge, and thus wishes questions to be answered.

But personally I feel, knowledge is all good and well, but it’s having the skills to put it into practice with wisdom, with the guidance of a spiritual elder and hence making us all better people.

Brother KTL and dear Sister Fatema, lets build a bridge and get over it!:)

[Tahir-Riaz]

Khalid Bin Walid (ra) is a hero due to his skills and not necessarily his character. Hence, even if someone somewhere knows something bad about him then rest assured that he is appreciated by Muslims for completely different reasons.

This brouhaha originates from the practice of reading political literature as religious revelations.  Root of all such disputes (for and against) is a total negation of the political landscape under which these narrations emerged. Having said that, what has this got to do with Islam? Was Khalid Bin Walid, or any other individual for that matter, serving Islam to become Islam? Sure, we appreciate their efforts and sacrifices but is that a good enough reason to make them an article of faith?

Islam without human idols would mean lesser disputes and divisions. Give it a try!

[objective-enquirer]

yes, storytelling and knowledge are two different things and the same has happened to the case of hazrat khalid bin walid. there are elements of storytelling in the narrative as post projections written a couple of centuries after the death of hz khalid bin walid and reflected the political zeal and religious fervour of the day. Thucydides' treatment of Athenians or Precopious' depiction of Justiin I are precursory examples of the genre'.

 

with this structure in mind it would require a method of interpretation which separates the true from the apocryphal. so if people are really serious about investigating khalid bin walid in the hagiographical academic sense the present your arguments with hard evidences and studies. cite your refrences as evidence and explain the historiography in the debate otherwise keep your fictional writing to yourself.

 first provide a framework for investigation, and then present materials such as cognitive sources and documentary evidence. this is the only method for arguing for or against in this issue otherwise just keep reading oliver twist.

[Mudassar-Rana]

[quote]The Mughal Sister (13.04.2011)

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Sister Fatema has raised some questions about the Warrior Khalid Bin Waleed and fair enough, it’s about education and progression.

Brothers Rana Saab, Imran and Khalid the Warrior have given knowledgeable in depth answers, and should continue to do so. This thread can be dedicated to the greatness of Khalid Bin Waleed and answering the questions lurking in the air by history.

No one means disrespect, that I am sure, Sister Fatema is a knowledgeable sister and I commend her knowledge, and thus wishes questions to be answered.

The problem dear sis tms - is that no question was ever raised - so what do we answer? What was put forward was insinuation and character assassination. Those not in the know are led to harbouring sinister misgivings vis a vis one of the biggest names of muslim history ala br joe dacky simply because you hear a side of the story. An intellectually honest thread would have been "Was Khalid bin walid r.a a rapist, pillager and plunderer?

The issues that br. KTL highlighted regarding the controversies surrounding Khalid bin walid r.a are only his assumptions that sis ftr meant. Because the insinuations were that there is something bad lurking in the closet. If there is then we want to hear about it because it is unfair to leave an issue dangling in the air. Because next time someone mentions this most noblest of men then what are we supposed to think?

This attitude that I am a secularist, i am not a secularist, I dont give a damn what people think of me etc - has me thinking which person do I reply to!

[Know-the-Ledge]

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The Mughal Sister (13.04.2011)

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Brother KTL and dear Sister Fatema, lets build a bridge and get over it!:)

I already have!! What do I win? Oh please a bride from Russia :Wow:

This thread was opened not with the intention to discuss the allegation raised, but to show up the 'bigotry' of zealots, who are accused of 'covering up'. I also don't really resonate anything but indifference to the question, but am in agreement with MR, that despite the claims to the contrary, the manner in which this 'inquisition for the truth' was followed, was seemingly very unprofessional and it is that little inconveneint truth, which riled me, it was patronising and no better than what the 'zealots' are accused of doing.

I may not have knowledge on the issue at hand, but I know lack of decorum and respect when I see it! Besides, telling me I don't have knoweldge on an issue, is like calling a fish stupid for not being able to climb a tree. Would that be fair? I know my limits!


Despite that, no love lost...