[hidayah227]

Before someone starts accusung me of attacking certain groups & personalities i would like to make myself very clear.

A person had given me a book to read titled (Kufrya Kalimaat K Baarey Main Sawal Jawab) written by Mohammed Ilyas Attar Qadri. He told me that it's a great book and that i should read it. So i took the book from him a started reading through some of the chapters . When i came across the chapter about our conduct towards the non muslims i was taken by surprise to find what was written in this book compared to what i had been taught by others Sufis and Scholars. My Reason for this post is to get answers to why such negative statments have been made in regards to how our approach and conduct towards the non muslims should by this particular author. I myself am a man who strongly believes that we all should  be treated equaly & that we should respect one another regardless of what race ,religion,background we are from. I have posted this question once before in another thread as it was relevant to the topic, but i did not get any answers.

In this book there is the following headings and questions

PAGE 428

Question; How is it to make friends with non believers? (kafir seh doosti rakna kaisa hai)

Answer; It is Forbidden - Haram hai.

 The only reference or dalile he gives is from quran.

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Page 429

Question ; Can we love a non believer? (Kya kafir seh mohabbath bi nahin rak sakthay?)

Answer; No you can not love them neither can you make friendship with them

No Sources given from quran or sunnah to back up his answer and just explains according to his own understanding.

 This means he is saying that we can not show any emotions of love and respect to them as a human being.

PAGE 432

Question; Can we shake hands with a non Believer? (Kya kafir seh haath milah sakthey hai?)

Answer ; it's Forbidden (Haram)....The prophet peace be upon him has forbidden this act that we should not shake hands with a mushrik or talk to them with (qunyaat) or to even say hello to them.

No reference has been given for the quote above in his book. Only goes on to quote from Other scholarly work. He than goes on to say We can only shake hands if we are in a situation where we have no choice (Majboor) and even if we do so we should not shake their hands wholeheartedly but only with distaste &  bitterness. :(

PAGE 435

Question; Can we Show respect to a non believer or not? (Kaafir seh tazeem karne ki hijaazat hai ya naihn?)

Answer;  It is not Allowed.

again no sources given from Quran or sunnah and goes on to quote a opinion of Alah Hazrat RA.

PAGE 439

He writes ; My SWEET SWEET islamic brother...Mere meete meete islami baiyo kafron keh paas parne( meaning to gain knowledge from them) or Unkey satth mil jur kar kaam kaj karne (Meaning to work or to do business with them) or un ki sohbath ikhtiar karne main imman k liye sakhth khatara rehta hai.


Much more negative things have been WRITTEN by the author of this book in regard to how our the morals and behavioral conduct  should be towards a non believer, but i don't have the time to write it all.

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[YaNabi-Chemist]

Salaam

This is sufficient to refute the above:

http://www.yanabi.com/forum/FindPost419362.aspx

[Fekay]

Is there reasons or explanation for any of these, or is it just "It's not allowed", with no real explanation?

[PrettyLittleWriter]

I don’t know the author but I also agree with you that everyone should be treated equally and that’s also what Islam says, the reason that it is forbidden to befriend non-Muslims is because it may affect religious commitment since they do not believe in the same things we do. Moreover, making friends with them may lead to some kind of approval in one's heart for the rituals that they do as part of their own religion, thus, it will weaken the sense of friendship and enmity for the sake of Allah. But it is allowed to visit them when their sick and you must respect them and use that opportunity to give da’wah. Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {Help you one another in Al­Birr and At­Taqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety);….}[5:2].  {Allâh does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allâh loves those who deal with equity.}[60:8]. It was narrated that Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “There was a Jewish boy who used to serve the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and he fell sick. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to visit him; he sat by his head and said, ‘Become Muslim.’ The boy looked at his father, who was present, and he (the father) said: ‘Obey Abu’l-Qaasim (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).’ So he became Muslim, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) left, saying, ‘Praise be to Allah Who has saved him from the Fire.’” -Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1290. Furthermore, the Prophet (PBUH) gave permission to Asma’ bint Abi Bakr to receive her mushrik mother when she came to visit her, and ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) gave a gift of a garment to his mushrik brother. Lastly, it is permissible to accept non-Muslim’s gifts because the Prophet (PBUH) accepted gifts from some of the kaafirs, such as the gift from al-Muqawqis the ruler of Egypt. But it is not permissible to congratulate them on the occasion of their festivals because this implies befriending them and approving of their falsehood. 'Hope I helped!

 

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=87176

 

 

[raisonner]

the book is written in urdu for a pakistani people, where there are plenty of Christian missionaries and groups trying to convert the masses. this is also why there is no references, it is for simple minded muslims from an uneducated non-questioning background. 

all the answers are correct if you take them in the context they are given. although i agree further explanation should be given for the western public, not every place is a war zone with crusader and missionaries.

did you show these quotes to the brother who insisted you read the book? what did he say?

[piara-madinah]

as one br wrote that this book is for uneducated and for less educated so kiya uneducated ko koi reference nahe cahiyee you want them not to learn more , and bear in mind br 227 the author is just a molve not a scholer , people who are not scholers need to avoid writting  religious books.

If we dont have any contacts with them , how can we spread Islam and non muslim doesnt mean they all kafir musherak, bey deen we can say then if we friendly with them we can teach them our religion etc or show them how we live etc.

even we can give them our religious book and many by reading the english translation , they become muslim.

and if we cant work with them , then what will happen to millions who are living and working in non muslim countries , next fatwa aye ga mulk say bahir jany ka visa bhi haram hay.

uneducated molvees wants to limit the relegion to the uneducated peoples only then no one will ask any explanations and in ki full time jobs pakki .

for relegion always try to read good books written by proper scholers and try to distribute good books in deprived areas.

our sufiyas and oliyas how they spread Islam by teaching the non muslims as well. As one br saying these written for less educated peoples can he explain do we need two types books one for uneducated and one for educated no br we need books written by proper scholers jin kay pass degrees nahe woh na likhen kitaben .

good scholers can write easy books for all .

[faizaneattar26]

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piara madinah (06.04.2011)

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as one br wrote that this book is for uneducated and for less educated so kiya uneducated ko koi reference nahe cahiyee you want them not to learn more , and bear in mind br 227 the author is just a molve not a scholer , people who are not scholers need to avoid writting  religious books.

If we dont have any contacts with them , how can we spread Islam and non muslim doesnt mean they all kafir musherak, bey deen we can say then if we friendly with them we can teach them our religion etc or show them how we live etc.

even we can give them our religious book and many by reading the english translation , they become muslim.

and if we cant work with them , then what will happen to millions who are living and working in non muslim countries , next fatwa aye ga mulk say bahir jany ka visa bhi haram hay.

uneducated molvees wants to limit the relegion to the uneducated peoples only then no one will ask any explanations and in ki full time jobs pakki .

for relegion always try to read good books written by proper scholers and try to distribute good books in deprived areas.

our sufiyas and oliyas how they spread Islam by teaching the non muslims as well. As one br saying these written for less educated peoples can he explain do we need two types books one for uneducated and one for educated no br we need books written by proper scholers jin kay pass degrees nahe woh na likhen kitaben .

good scholers can write easy books for all .

salam first of all please avoid direct attacks on ulamas and secondly can you please explain how a non muslim is not a kafir? as high lighted in green. you understanding seems to be that how do you do dawah to non muslim if you are not friends with then, my question is have you ever been to a shop and done shopping without making friends with the shop keeper. your answer will definitely be yes you have been shopping with out becoming friends with the shop keeper. why do you want to complicate simply matters and make judgements on every thing that you dont understand. can you also use the spell check when writing posts please.

[hidayah227]

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raisonner (06.04.2011)

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the book is written in urdu for a pakistani people, where there are plenty of Christian missionaries and groups trying to convert the masses. this is also why there is no references, it is for simple minded muslims from an uneducated non-questioning background. 

all the answers are correct if you take them in the context they are given. although i agree further explanation should be given for the western public, not every place is a war zone with crusader and missionaries.

did you show these quotes to the brother who insisted you read the book? what did he say?

The only word used is (Kafir). He does not write anywhere in his book that he is only referring to certain Christians in pakistan like you have mentioned above. As far as i am concerned there is no context to be spoken of other than kafirs in general. Why in Gods name would a Muslim want go out and attain knowledge, shake hands, be friends, do business with a Christian crusader in a war zone or with the missionaries? I'm sorry but THIS SOUNDS EVEN MORE BIZZAR TO ME. 

 

[piara-madinah]

shopping and dawah two different things brother attar and dont go emotional  dawah you cant do in 5 minutes and shopping you can ub dekh loo app ny app ny bhi unpurhon wali baat ki hay , you need to show the non muslim how we live what is our behaviours etc and what is our reelegion teachings etc and then they impress and will become muslim, to do shopping you dont need ages.

and always bear in mind whoever you like or follow they are alims for you but for others they are simple molvees , only the big scholers people have to say yes they are scholers and have there education from this and that university etc but again that is up to you , you like them or not , that is not a big thing you have to like them .

when people spend years on education and thousands and even pakistani hundred thousands money on the education , then what they doing wasting time, no they learning so a simple molve and scholer always two diferent peoples and again in knowledege again they not same.

Pakistan is full with molves and alims who got no degrees etc so you cant force others to like them or read them and that is there right if they ask the refernces etc or say this bok is from a scholer or this is from a molve .

ask the proper scholers bey deen or kafir , kafir and sikh , kafir and christians etc sab kay liye they will give diffferent definations same as kafir murtids etc .

[Desert-Sheikh]

There's nothing surprising, Ala Hazrat radi Allahu anhu holds the same opinion on this issue even he used to turn queen-stamp upside down (to show his animosity towards her), e.g., 

 

Here we are talking about non-Msulims, and he even abandoned those Sunni scholars who joined Nadwa-tul-Ulma (a political-educational organization of religious scholars from all sects).
Our opinions are based on our knowledge and perceptions, for all our intelligence, we are still limited in our minds. We humans have different opinion on different matters and i think we should stick to our-own point of view rather than showing errors in others. 

[Super_Duper]

Ala Hazrat (ra) lived centuries ago in a different kind of global situation.  It seems as though some Muslims are still stuck in the past.  When moulana's start applying old fatwa's in a new and different context then your bound to come up with incoherent conclusions!  When we confine rules like this it no longer makes sense nor is practical.  It is a rule of fiqh that any fatwa should only be delivered when the mufti/mujtahid is fully aware of the situation whereupon it will apply. 

I see this as a problem with some of our sunni brethren.  With all due respect, they confine everything to Ala Hazrat (ra).  And if your opinion is different with Ala Hazrat (ra) then it is as if you are no longer a sunni.  I wonder what Ala Hazrat (ra) would make of it if were with us today and saw what a mess we have made. 

Now these Moulana's of DI are probably thinking of Ala Hazrat (ra) regarding this matter too.  But it illustrates that they are not qualified to give opinions on such matters.  Furthermore, it shows that they have a narrow perception of deen.  Forgive me, but this is what puts me off DI and even some of the work they are doing.      

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

My best friend is a Hindu who has such fantastic human qualities that she is better and dearer to me than most of my other Muslim friends. I hope one day she will become Muslim because a good human being deserves to be saved. I eat with her, I spend time with her, I kiss her cheeks and I even hug her. She is there for me whenever I need her.  I have very intellectualy challenging conversations with her, we discuss life and God. I have never really delved into such conversations with many of my Muslim friends (this excludes TMS, we talk about very deep things too)

My point is she is my support, and my prayer is she accepts Islam. I want to know how is it conceivable to spread Islam if you do not shake hands with non muslims, you are not kind to them, you ignore their humanity and forget your own. Mevlana says 'come come whoever you are' this is the real messsage of Islam.

A Religion which preaches hate and discord does not deserve to be a Religion. God has warned us against unifying with forces whose aim is to destroy your faith like the zionists.

[seeker]

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Fatema the resplendent (06.04.2011)

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My best friend is a Hindu who has such fantastic human qualities that she is better and dearer to me than most of my other Muslim friends. I hope one day she will become Muslim because a good human being deserves to be saved. I eat with her, I spend time with her, I kiss her cheeks and I even hug her. She is there for me whenever I need her.  I have very intellectualy challenging conversations with her, we discuss life and God. I have never really delved into such conversations with many of my Muslim friends (this excludes TMS, we talk about very deep things too)

My point is she is my support, and my prayer is she accepts Islam. I want to know how is it conceivable to spread Islam if you do not shake hands with non muslims, you are not kind to them, you ignore their humanity and forget your own. Mevlana says 'come come whoever you are' this is the real messsage of Islam.

A Religion which preaches hate and discord does not deserve to be a Religion. God has warned us against unifying with forces whose aim is to destroy your faith like the zionists.

SubhanAllah, Allah yahdeehaa.Your arguments are based on rationale, clear thought and logic. I say that in a positive and admiring way. The problem is that this approach will quickly hit a brick wall when somebody brings their so-called "proofs" and "daleel" from the Qur'an and Sunnah (even though a holistic glance at the life of the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasallam) shows otherwise).

[faizaneattar26]

SALAM piyara madina can you plz clarify the question i asked you before. how is a non muslim not a kaffir? also is an alim you dont like then thats fine but so respect for them at least.

[YaNabi-Chemist]

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Super_Duper (06.04.2011)

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Ala Hazrat (ra) lived centuries ago in a different kind of global situation.  It seems as though some Muslims are still stuck in the past.  When moulana's start applying old fatwa's in a new and different context then your bound to come up with incoherent conclusions!    

Salaam

Agreed. To me living in the midst of Non-Muslims such fatwas are not only redundant but problematic. 

[The-Mughal-Sister]

 

Wonderful post Fatema, its clear thinking like that which makes us ambassadors of Islam.

I work with all different people, white, black, whatever. If I started becoming distant, standoff-ish and generally rude the non-Muslims would think that we are a proud lot, and would assume that all Muslims are like that. But on the contrary, if I find a decent, hard working colleague I would work well with her, and go out of my way to help her, and she would vice versa, we’re there for each other, back each other up when the going gets tough, and believe me it did once. My Nigerian Christian colleague is wonderful to be around, we talk about religion in a non-hostile manner, and she showed snaps of when she visited Jerusalem.

I used to say Asslamalikum to my Pakistani colleague every day, my white, non-Muslim colleague complained that I don’t say it to her and teach her how to answer back. We both laughed and taught her how to answer, so now when we say Salaam we say it to her and she replies fabulously. When they decide to go out for a meal, they go out of their way to chose a Halal place, and worry if its shariah compliant, it’s so thoughtful.

How about that for community cohesion and setting a good example to non-Muslims?  Believe it or not they are not aliens, but humans like us, if we care, share and deal with them in a positive manner maybe this notion of Islamaphobia would disappear, instead we are making matters worse by alienating ourselves like we’re some heavenly freaks bound for heaven and everyone is doomed. We may as well hold placards!!’

[Mudassar-Rana]

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faizaneattar26 (06.04.2011)

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piara madinah (06.04.2011)

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as one br wrote that this book is for uneducated and for less educated so kiya uneducated ko koi reference nahe cahiyee you want them not to learn more , and bear in mind br 227 the author is just a molve not a scholer , people who are not scholers need to avoid writting  religious books.

If we dont have any contacts with them , how can we spread Islam and non muslim doesnt mean they all kafir musherak, bey deen we can say then if we friendly with them we can teach them our religion etc or show them how we live etc.

even we can give them our religious book and many by reading the english translation , they become muslim.

and if we cant work with them , then what will happen to millions who are living and working in non muslim countries , next fatwa aye ga mulk say bahir jany ka visa bhi haram hay.

uneducated molvees wants to limit the relegion to the uneducated peoples only then no one will ask any explanations and in ki full time jobs pakki .

for relegion always try to read good books written by proper scholers and try to distribute good books in deprived areas.

our sufiyas and oliyas how they spread Islam by teaching the non muslims as well. As one br saying these written for less educated peoples can he explain do we need two types books one for uneducated and one for educated no br we need books written by proper scholers jin kay pass degrees nahe woh na likhen kitaben .

good scholers can write easy books for all .

salam first of all please avoid direct attacks on ulamas and secondly can you please explain how a non muslim is not a kafir? as high lighted in green. you understanding seems to be that how do you do dawah to non muslim if you are not friends with then, my question is have you ever been to a shop and done shopping without making friends with the shop keeper. your answer will definitely be yes you have been shopping with out becoming friends with the shop keeper. why do you want to complicate simply matters and make judgements on every thing that you dont understand. can you also use the spell check when writing posts please.

BR FA - would you agree that its not ok to make friend with kuffar - but you are allowed to lie through your back teeth to get a dodgy student visa so you can work on the side? Or maybe we cant accept friendship but were not against your social security benefits? And if  interacting with kuffar is that bad why are most of the maulvies looking for the first ticket out over to kuff land?

The biggest error of judgement is when we make men the sole inheritors of deen when in reality it is otherwise.They are good and bad in all communities. Our role should be as close as we can humanly get to that of the noble rasool e kareem s.a.w. Im ashamed that quranic ayats can be quoted without reference to asbab un nuzool and this from books written by "scholars" - and im sure my rasool s.a.w said he who calls himself a scholar isnt one! 

Let me give you a personal example. After redundancy I faced severe financial hardship and with debts piling up I asked a friend for a short term loan _ someone who only a year back had borrowed 20k off me to lend me a few thousand for a month - this gentleman refused politely - he was muslim and I wont mention the group he was from!!! Now compare this to a non muslim, a kaafir, - this gentleman rang me out of the blue to ask how i was and when i told him that things were tough - he started shouting on the phone that I had not asked him! This gentleman being a kafir offered to bail me out at a time of need without even me asking. My self respect didnt allow that I took the offer - yet when my daughter was born he sent a 500 pound bracelet! This is etiquette. this transcends different religions. Because 90% of muslims, christians do not put their beliefs into actions. The mullahs use their piety to ply their trade and fill their boots, and those that deny it are only fooling themselves.

[piara-madinah]

brother attar ziada smart na banoo for you people that is very easy that you want to split muslims in pakistan in two classes one educated and one uneducated and the molvees are writting boks for the uneducated without any sach knowledge because they want them to join there jamats they dont bother about the teachings they want the numbers.

now come to the point what you requesting me to answer that why a non muslim is not a kafir , for a muslim one have to believe on Allah , nabi paak SAW and the quran and you can find many non muslims who believe on Allah but not on nabi paak so you cant call them kafir you can call them non muslims but not kafirs and insha Allah they will beleive on nabi paak as well give them chance and try to show good iklaq and support and if you got chance to live next to them then be friendly with them and one day they will change , as we living in multy cuklture , multy socity and multy relegions , they are learning from us a lot and accepting our culture relegion etc and many they converting .

I know alahazrat done a lot of work etc for islam but that doesnt mean what he said cant be changed.

instead of arguing what our oliya sufias or scholers done 100 years back why cant we unite and see what are our scholers are saying now and listen to them and see the difference between who is saying an ordinary molvee or a scholer , ask sheikh yaqobi these questions or any other scholers of this time and age.

[hidayah227]

After the war of Badr had come to an end the Prophet peace & blessings be upon him offered to release the prisoners of war (the Quraish Pagans) for every 10 Muslim children they educated in medina. Now these people (captives) were no ordenary people like the comman Christans of today. They were infact the worst enemies of Islam who came to fight against the muslims yet the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him did not hestitate when it came to educating the children of Madina under the enemies of islam. So who are we to say that we should not go out to attain knowledge from the non muslims becuase they are great threat to our faith.

A hadith says: Seek Knowledge, even if you have to travel to China. Surely seeking knowledge in China does not mean Islamic knowledge. During the Prophet’s period, China was also known to have deep knowledge in such fields as medicine, literature and paper, bearing in mind that the chinese were not Muslims at that time.

[Know-the-Ledge]

LOL. Seriously, I don't know how to be calm, thoughtful yada yada yada. I'm brusque and abit of a problematic child. I once punched myself, just to win a penny sweet; I even once stuck two-fingers up in the direction of my house where my parents lived, in order for someone to lend me a game for my Super Nintendo. I once took a nail cutter, heated the small knife extendable pinned my brother down and singed his hand with it, 'cos he got a new coat that I wanted; it's all 'cos i'm abit of a renegade, who engages in mindless bickering and internal-ramblings, the sort of rebellion which is followed up with more of the same, against  members of the same religion.


Seriously, I don't really want to expound on what I think of this fatwa, it's toilet paper to me!! People who take this seriously, need to jump out of their council-estate wells and realise that there is more to non-muslims than Bonny and her baby, or Charlotte the Harlot.

"Mummy mummy, why are you hands so soft, is it 'cos you use fairy liquid? No you door-knob, it's 'cos i'm 14, now eat your greens, you're daddy'll be coming home from school." Oh my, look look, look at the evil non-muslims, we need to stay away from them, or we might get pregnant and get kicked in the stomach; that makes no sense does it? Abit like that fatwa then.

What? You want a thesis? Muslims: na khud khush hote hain, na doosro ko khush dekhna ch'ate hain. My urdus not bad is it? And you wanted to smack my wrist with a wet-lettuce.

Flipping hell...