[Mystic]

[Imran.]

Seems like naqshbandi chain has been stuck onto another chain through Qadiri imamya shijra then added the the other ahlul bayt imams after imam musa ridha(as) into the equation too.


Bayazid bistami was a mureed of imam jafar as sadiq(as) and then sat in presence of imam musa alkazim (this  is established from authentic reports/narrations in books or sayings of the order),yet this "shijra" states he was born after imam musa al kazim(as) had passed away.

It neither makes sense that hadrat bayazid sat with imam musa alkazim(as) whilst at a  matur(ish) age yet still was around nearly 100 yrs later to get ijazah of the imam hassan Askari(as) too.

Where do the shaikhs at 15 and 16 come from,because from bayazid bistami(ra) to Abul hasan kharqani(ra) the silsila becomes uwaisi,the latter getting the ijaza/faiz to continue lineage at the tomb of the former,there were about 150 yrs between the esteemed shaikhs,this is the belief of the naqshbandya too and a well known fact amongst sufia.

Why arent the 2 shaikhs at no: 15 and 16 added to all naqshbandi shijras the world over?

Where does "imam al mahdi" figure in this,he seems to be born(as per shia belief) in year 869,whilst bayazid bistami passeed away in 877/78 which woud mean that this A mahdi(for arguments sake) would have been 8/9 years old?

..... and then giving faiz and khilafat to others too?

If he is alive then,why did the author deem it neccassary to continue this shijra,and why did none of the shaikhs that came after him including al Ghawth Al Adham(ra) not hold the belief that A Mahdi was even born,let alone be their current shaikh in tariqat?

Dont make any sense.

 

[technocore]

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Shaykh Nazim: Imam Mahdi’s Helpers believe he is the son of Imam Hasan al-Askari-Jan 16th, 2011

January 21st, 2011 § Leave a Comment




- www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzBhcbP636E -
- www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-7N0_67uUM -

Mawlana Shaykh Mehmet Nazim al-Qubrusi: The Helpers of Imam Mahdi (as) are from Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jam’ah, but they believe he is the son of Imam Hasan al-Askari (as)-Jan 16th, 2011

(Below content taken from http://ahmedamiruddi...e-twelve-imams/ )

This was also the belief of Ghawth al-Adham Shaykh ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani as highlighted by his grandsons in the book Mishkaat an-Nubuwat, and also that of Shaykh al-Akbar Muhiuddin Ibn Arabi, Hadrat Ihsan Khwaja Ubaydullah al-Ahrar and the venerable Khwaja Baha al-Din Shah Naqshband as mentioned by his caliph and biographer Khwaja Muhammad Parsa, who wrote in his Fasl al-Khitab, in the chapter “Ahwal al-Aqtab: Fadhail Khulafa wa Ahlul Bayt”:

“Imam Hasan al-Askari (rad) is the father of Abul Qasim Muhammad al-Muntadhar (rad)…the birth of al-Muntadhar (rad) was on the night of the 15th of Sha’ban, 255…his mother’s name is Narjis”[Fasl al-Khitab [Arabic]: Fadhail Khulafa wa Ahlul Bayt, p. 592, Khwaja Muhammad Parsa].

[technocore]

(http://ahmedamiruddi...sunni-nor-shia/)

GrandShaykh ‘Abd Allah al-Faiz ad-Daghestani: Imam al-Mahdi (rad) is not Sunni or Shiite



July 25th, 2011 § Leave a Comment

Q. According to a post on eShaykh.com, you are accused of being influenced by Shiite publications because of your stated beliefs regarding the Mahdi. What is your response to such comments?

A. Shaykh Hisham al-Kabbani, one of the Shaykhs on that website, stated on 2-22-2006 in his sohbet titled, “Arrival of Sayedena Mahdi Alaihi Salam”, “The Imam is Sayyidina Mahdi…He is from that line of 12 imams” (www.mevlanasufi.blogspot.com).

There is not a single GrandShaykh of the Naqshbandiyya who does not believe that Imam Mahdi (as) is the son of Imam Hasan al-Askari (rad), because our silsila traces through them (peace be upon them). All of our Saints from the Golden Chain will return (in spirit?) to believe in Imam Mahdi (as) when he returns, like the Prophets returned from Barzakh on the Night of the Ascension in Jerusalem to believe in Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) and pray behind him, and testify to his Imamate, as the Imam of all Prophets.

According to Mawlana Shaykh Nazim al-Qubrusi, Imam Mahdi (as) is neither Sunni nor Shia. Mawlana said, ”May Allah forgives us, and protects all our brothers, sisters and believers, mo’min people, to reach and to be with Saheb uz-Zaman, Imam ul-Asr, we hope. He is brining Sirr ush-Shariah. GrandShaykh was asking [Hadrat Mahdi], I was there, Oh Saheb uz-Zaman, which Madhab you are following? I am hearing, he (Hadrat Mahdi) said, “O Shaykh Abdullah, I am not in need to follow any Mahdab, we are like Prophets (infallible). What he was making way for his Ummah, we are going first, and whole Shia, Sunni, Salafi, Malafi, all of them must follow me. Who is not following, I am ordering to be taken away 70,000 from those people whom they are claiming we are Ulemas”*.

It is not correct anymore, according to Mawlana Shaykh Nazim to say we are “Naqshbandi”, “Qadiri”, “Rifai”, “Mawlawi”, rather it is now more correct to say we are Rabbani. Rabbani is from Rab. The ABJAD value of Rab is Ra+Ba=202. The ABJAD value of Muhammad is Meem+Haa+Meem+Daal=92, and the ABJAD value for ‘Ali is ‘Ayn+Laam+Yaa=110. If you add 92+110 you get 202, the same ABJAD value for Rab. This indicates that to be Rabbani, you can only go through the secret of Muhammad’Ali, meaning believe in Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) and befriend Imam ‘Ali (rad).

“Ana wa ‘Aliyyin min Nurin Wahid”, meaning “I and ‘Ali are from One Light.”

[Mystic]

Here is something you want to look at. According to the 12rs the mother of the Mahdi is not a Roman Princess as the Sufi above narrated.


More info here.

http://www.revivinga...imam-mahdi.html

[technocore]

 Mystic, on 20 August 2011 - 05:29 AM, said:

Here is something you want to look at. According to the 12rs the mother of the Mahdi is not a Roman Princess as the Sufi above narrated.

Wether this lady "Narjis" was a roman princes or black bondwoman is not stated/narrated by the sheikh. And as to the explicit statement of the sheikh, well he is the grand sheikh of the naqshbandi order, who has inspired millions of people. I lived in cyprus for some time and had the chance to see him up-close. He is truly a humble, God fearing man who holds strictly to shari'ah. To expect "falsehood" from such a person, creates an ironical situation. If I can't believe a living person fitting the description of wali, who has converted thousands to islam, heading an ancient order of Awlia, than why should i believe in things attributed to all those from Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani (ra) to Sahaba (ra), already dead. Logically, It is easier to create a superman out of a normal person when you have a time span of centuries and an audience with intellectual capacity to question the unnatural incidents or fairytales, close to apes.

[Mystic]

Proof should be based on textual sources instead of our emotions and experiences.

Yes, it good that many awliya said so and so. However, we have to make sure they don't always borrow material.

There are some saints that have good text on the 12 imams. Then there are others where it seems like they are borrowing material.

I have respect for Shaykh Nazim's shaykh, but its not always enough to do blind taqleed.

This post has been edited by Mystic: 21 August 2011 - 05:27 AM

[technocore]

 Mystic, on 21 August 2011 - 05:26 AM, said:

Proof should be based on textual sources instead of our emotions and experiences.

Yes, it good that many awliya said so and so. However, we have to make sure they don't always borrow material.

There are some saints that have good text on the 12 imams. Then there are others where it seems like they are borrowing material.

I have respect for Shaykh Nazim's shaykh, but its not always enough to do blind taqleed.

Interesting brother, are you saying a genuine Wali can lie and deceive, intensionally or unintentionally ?
If we cannot believe in a living person who adheres to shariah and sunna, possess qualities of wilayat ... than under what rational logic, can we trust those whose traditions have been passed down through centuries or those who examined and accepted those traditions. You take the assumption that the transmitters of the text of our literature were on absolute truth. Apart from Quran, the word of a person living or dead is as good as his apparent character.

In addition how would you concile the words of the sheikh above, the transmission from historical figures and our apparent belief that special knowledge is passed on to Awlias from chest to chest through golden chains from the Prophet (saaw) himself. Logically there has to be a lier some where in there. Discrepancy makes it an absolute fact.

[Mystic]

I'm not calling the Wali a liar. What I am saying is we should work on textual proofs. Inshallah I am working on a project to get rid of this weakness.

Anyway to entertain you thought let me give you an example. Shaykh Nazim al Haqqani say Hajj al Akbar is this year. Yet we know its not the case. What do we do with cases like this ? Yes we have to take it as spirituality. Brother I rather read a hadith from the Prophet (pbuh) which is clearly understood.

[Imran.]

 technocore, on 20 August 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

And as to the explicit statement of the sheikh, well he is the grand sheikh of the naqshbandi order

He, with all due respect is the grandshaikh of a one branch(of possibly thousands of other branches) of the naqshbandi order,and not the whole of the naqshbandi chain,lets be clear about this first.

Shaikhs can and have in past(including shaikh nazim ) erred on their interpretation of the kashf they recieve,this does not translate as lying,but mere error.

As for this secret coming down chest to to chest,well this has not transmitted by any other naqshbandi shuyukh of any other branch of the silsila,never mind any other silsila.

The shaykh has erred in his predictions many a time in the past too sadly,although this is not to say that he is not a man of god(which he is).

Genuine error is possible for even walis although lying is not.

[technocore]

very logical / reasonable, but ...

On what premises is it based that he is in error ?
Considering that he is not an ordinary person, but one regarded by millions to be the genuine wali of Allah(swat) in faith and actions, the "fact" that would prove him to have erred should in it self be absolute.
By this time i think it is clear, the 12th imam is not the topic of this conversation, but the concept of reaching/accepting truth in our religion.

[Mystic]

Please tell me how your points are any different from a 12r who is inspired by Imam Khomeini ?

[Imran.]

 technocore, on 22 August 2011 - 12:48 AM, said:

On what premises is it based that he is in error ?

On the fact that he has erred in predictions regarding the mahdi before(he was supposed to appear in 1979/80 according to the respected shaikh),and on the fact that sunni sources signify Al Mahdi as being hasani in paternal lineage and hussaini in maternal,aswell as his parents having the same names as that of the parents of RasoolAllah(alayh assalato assalaam),however imam Askaris name was not Abdullah nor his wifes Amina.

These ahadith even if not mutwatir are considerably stronger and more reliable than the shia versions

Quote

Considering that he is not an ordinary person, but one regarded by millions to be the genuine wali of Allah(swat) in faith and actions, the "fact" that would prove him to have erred should in it self be absolute.

Being regarded as a wali means nothing nor does it give one the status of second to Quran only(as you seem to be suggesting).

Why does he not prove such claims in light of what is "absolute",rather than claiming it stemming from "secret" knowledge(if he does in the first place, and is not being misquoted or misinterpreted)?

Funny, you reject the rijaal and isnaad(by which deen is supported) on a whim yet conclude this "secret knowledge"(which cannot even be verified) as truth.

Why has no other naqshbandi shaikh (with bigger status and more followers)throughout the generations made such a claim and why this "secret" not divulged before?

PS It was one of the teachers of Abu Hanifa who said "if it wasnt for isnaad,anybody could say/claim whatever they wished"

[technocore]

Interesting brother ... by the way i only trying to contemplate how rijal & asnad can absolve a matter above personal whims.

Just for my own personal knowledge, can you or anyone, explain, who verified the asnad of hadith collection of the great scholars of history like imam bukhari / muslim / nisai etc ... I mean they travelled thousands of miles to collect ahadith through out their lives in the muslim empire, what is the proof that they actually wrote down what they heard or even heard and not make up appropriate asnad to propagate their system of belief ?

Without a governing body to audit, do we not rely on their character to believe they are telling the truth ?

[Mystic]

Why don't you read up tafsir of those ahadith.
For ahadith that are made up there is a reason they are weak.
On the contrary, refer to this clip and see how the 12rs try to convince others of the existence of the Mahdi.

In the above clip that Nakshawani claims that Imam Askari (as) did not want people to know he is father of the Mahdi.
Next they are not even sure among themselves whose is real mother. Is she a Ethiopian slave or a Roman Princess ?
Then he says the Mahdi's mother had no signs of pregnancy.
Then he adds that 5 year came in namaz has the full strength to push his adult uncle away. Now are you trying to tell me this happened, and nobody was able to recognize the voice of a 5 year boy ?


People don't tell me the above stories are more trustworthy because they inspire you.

As for sufi belief its there, but its not binding on any Muslim.
On top of that there isn't even that much information from the Sufi side. In our books we have more information about the Mahdi after he becomes a calipah.