[Major-Screw-Loose]

What is the real and actual Kalimah that Shias believe in and do all Shias believe in this or are there some shias distance themself and do not believe in the Shia Kalimah?

Secondly, do Shias also believe in the original kalimah?

P.s. Qadiani's change the meaning of the Qur'an (correct me if I'm wrong), Shias make additions to the Kalimah, Yazeed makes halal haraam and haraam into halal.  Aren't they just as bad as each other?

If changing or alterating the words of Qur'an is seen as very wrong and grave sin, then isn't it just as grave sin for changing or adding or creating your own self-made Kalimah I would love to ask the Shias.

I really need some feeback on this issue because I'm likely to discuss these matters with my parents and family because I'm sick of them not paying heed/attention to whats true/false and right/wrong and all they seem to care about is going to the majlis's of Shias everytime Muharram month comes.

[beautifulwayoflife]

EDIT: Refrain from posting nonsense. 

[Zarb-e-Haidari]

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Major Screw Loose (20.12.2010)

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What is the real and actual Kalimah that Shias believe in and do all Shias believe in this or are there some shias distance themself and do not believe in the Shia Kalimah?

La e laaha ill Allah ho Muhammadur rasulullah Aliyun waliyullah khalifatahu billa fasl.

It is in three parts the first two are same as us and the third last part is:

Aliyun walyullah khalifatahu billa fasl - Meaning Ali is the friend of Allah and his Khalafat is without. Khalafat with out space means distance in time in other words after the Holy Prophet (sawaw) there is no space distance between the Nabuwat of Rasulullah (sawaw) and the Khalafat e Walayaat (spiritual khalafat) of Imam Ali (as). This further means that they were both created at the same time Nabuwat and Walayaat. Both personalities were also came into existance at the same time from the same Noor. Now we agree with this 100% and so to all Muslims that Ali (as) is the Wali of Allah (azawajal) It is a Hadeith from Sahih Bukhari.

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Secondly, do Shias also believe in the original kalimah?

Yes they accept our Kalima but add the third part to it.

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P.s. Qadiani's change the meaning of the Qur'an (correct me if I'm wrong), Shias make additions to the Kalimah, Yazeed makes halal haraam and haraam into halal.  Aren't they just as bad as each other?

They are not changing the Kalima but adding to it as we have 6 Kalimas if we deny any of them are we still Muslims ? Same as if we deny the Shias third part of Kalima as Ali is the wali of Allah (swt) Who as a Muslim can disagree?
 

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If changing or alterating the words of Qur'an is seen as very wrong and grave sin, then isn't it just as grave sin for changing or adding or creating your own self-made Kalimah I would love to ask the Shias.

No they are NOT changing the Quran in fact they use the Quran to point out that they dont just accept Allah (swt) and Muhammad (sawaw) but also Ali (as) as per these Ayahs that which you believe, you must testify.




إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلاَةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ

Innama waliyyukumu Allahu warasooluhu waallatheena amanoo allatheena yuqeemoona alssalata wayutoona alzzakata wahum rakiAAoona

5:55 Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

Surah Maidah Ayat 55

Only Allah is your friend and His Messenger and the believers that they establish the prayer and pay the poor-due and are bowed down before Allah.

English(Yusuf_Ali)

Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

Yes it is Authentic as the Whole Qur'an my dear friend. Who ever doubts a single word of the Quran leaves the fold of Islam like a arrow from a bow.

We accept that Ayah refers to Imam Ali (as) as they are the only one attributed to this event. Sunni as well as Shia accept this. Though plural words have been used, but it only refers to one person as there has been none other than Moula Ali (as) who gave Zaka'at in state of Raku'u for the past 14 centuries and even before then.

Who ever accepts that this Ayah refers to Imam Ali (as) cannot deny the wilayaat e Ali (as). Other friends of Allah (swt) are included in the Wilayaat of Imam Ali (as) As Imam Ali (as) are the distributers of Walayaat. So those wali who spent their time in worship of Allah (swt) are included but the main Wali that this Ayah refers to is the one who gave Zaka'at in the state of Raku'u.

The Shia's use this Ayah to say that Imam Ali (as) is Allah's wali when in fact the Ayah states Make Allah (swt) and his Prophet (sawaw) and Imam Ali (as) your wali.

Kanz-ul-Eeman

Surah Maidah Ayat 67

يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَإِن لَّمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ وَاللّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْكَافِرِينَ

Translation:

O Prophet, Deliver the message which has been revealed on you, If you do not perform the action then you have not delivered any message of His Risalah. Allah will protect you from the bad-intentions of people. Verily Allah does not guide those who reject.

Allah says in Surah Baqara Ayat 283

وَلاَ تَكْتُمُواْ الشَّهَادَةَ وَمَن يَكْتُمْهَا فَإِنَّهُ آثِمٌ قَلْبُهُ وَاللّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ عَلِيمٌ

Don’t conceal a Shahadat(which is specific), any one who does conceal a Shahadat, Surely he will be sinful.

Allah says in Surah Baqara Ayat 140

وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّن كَتَمَ شَهَادَةً عِندَهُ مِنَ اللّهِ وَمَا اللّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ

Who is more Zalim then that person who conceal that Shahadat which has been done obligatory by Allah.

You can refer to these ayahs which were revealed for Wilayat of Maula Ali(as)

Surah Maeda Ayat 55
Surah Maeda Ayat 5
Surah Zukhraf Ayat 43
Surah Nisa Ayat 170
Surah Anam Ayat 153
Surah Nehal Ayat 93
Surah Aal e Imran Ayat 144
Surah Aal e Imran Ayat 185
Surah Anfal ayat 24
Surah Maeda Ayat 10
Surah Airaf Ayat 172
Surah Atakasur Ayat 8
Surah Nashar Ayat 7-8
Surah Niba Ayat1-5
Surah Qalam Ayat 3
Surah Marij Ayat 1-2
Surah Jumma Ayat 2
Surah Fatah Ayat 26
Surah Mohammad Ayat 34
Surah Zukhraf Ayat 45
Surah Zumr Ayat 32
Surah Safaat Ayat 23
Surah Mominoon Ayat 73
Surah Taha Ayat 82
Surah Kahf Ayat 44
Surah Yousuf Ayat 108
Surah Yunus Ayat 25
Surah Tauba Ayat 16
Surah Tauba Ayat 18
Surah Anam Ayat 82
Surah Hajj Ayat 24
Surah Baqara Ayat 138
Surah Rom Ayat 30
Surah Nisa Ayat 137
Surah Maeda Ayat 19
Surah Hadeed Ayat 19
Surah Zariyat Ayat 8-9
Surah Furqan Ayat 7-8
Surah Furqan Ayat 27
Surah Ankabot Ayat 38
Surah Dhar Ayat 30
Surah Nuh Ayat 28
Surah Nisa Ayat 174-175

And hundreds of more……

Surah Airaf Ayat 29, Surah Zumr Ayat3, Surah Fatir Ayat 10 etc etc
All the above ayah were revealed for Wilayat e Ali(as).

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I really need some feeback on this issue because I'm likely to discuss these matters with my parents and family because I'm sick of them not paying heed/attention to whats true/false and right/wrong and all they seem to care about is going to the majlis's of Shias everytime Muharram month comes.

You are most welcome to ask anymore questions. To conclude we as Sunni accept many as Wali to deny any of them we go out of Islam, so there is no reason for us to go around telling people that we accept, as no Muslim has ever denied them. Shia Kalima was made when people were forced to hate and send lanat upon Moula Ali (as) as a result Shias included the waliyat of Moula Ali (as) in their Kalima.

If someone says to you why do you not read the Shia Kalima then say to them we do not need to, as we read the Kalima of the Holy Prophet (sawaw) and the 12 Imams including the Sahabas and Walis of Allah (swt).  The Holy Quran is also part of our deen do we include it in the Kalima ? Or shall we ?

Imam Ja'afer Al-Sadiq (as) our Ahle Sunnah's 6th Imam have said that the Kalima (Sunni Kalima) is enough to be a Muslim. Ask the Shias why you call the Yazeedi's as Muslims which Kalima were they reading ??

Waslaam

[beautifulwayoflife]

I apologize brother YaNabi Chemist I was only trying to help (I thought it was relevant) Insha'Allah will not make this mistake again!
To Major Screw Loose I do not know. 

[Zarb-e-Ali]

[Mystic]

Well the 12rs believe the Waliyah of the 12 imams is an extension of the Kalma. Without this they believe you are kaffir in the aqira.
Al Khoei the major mujadid of the 12rs has a fatwa where he declares all non-12rs Shia including Ismaili and Zaydi shias to be Muslim in the dunya, but kaffir in the aqira.




However, they have disagreements whether Ali un Wali Allah should be added tashahhud or not.



Also, the 12rs believe the Waliyah(Calipate) of the 12 imams will be fulfilled through the process of rajah.

[technocore]

Salam Brother,
MashAllah great post by brother Zarb-e-Haideri.
In addition, 12-er shia's have the third part of qalima (related to wilayet & khilafat of Moula Ali a.s) as part of Iman and not part of kalima itself. In 5 ritual prayers they do not add the third part and recite the same qalima as us.
It is similar to what we do in durood (an obligatory act according to Quran), we add sahaba (ra) at the end of durood whereas the Prophet (saaw) only asked to send it on him, his aal (progeny) and his wives. In prayers we recite only the durood taught by the Prophet (saaw) himself.
They read the same Quran as us. Our difference with them lies in the extended concept of Imamat and their rejection of most of the companions of the Prophet (saaw), being the primary aspects. As we donot call them non-muslims but believe they are destined for hell due to their misguided aqeeda, similarly, they do not regard us as non-muslims but believe we are destined for hell for our misguided aqeeda. That is whats meant by kaafir in akhira.
Most (not all) differences among shia/sunni are more of an exaggeration than reality, cooked up by our spice loving mulla's. For example it is common concept that they do not recite salam at the end of the prayer but rather do takbir three times. In reality they do recite salam (without turning head sideways) and their prayer ends at salam and the three takbirs are mustahib (voluntary recommended act) they consider as sunnah.
Although I heard some where and would appreciate if someone would verify it, that in Makkah the kalima Prophet (saaw) asked people to recite was only "La illaha illAllah" than in madina it was "La illaha illAllah Muhammad ur Rasool Allah" and during his (saaw)'s last days, he asked some people to recite "Aliyun waliAllah" at the end of the kalima as well ? Is this true ?
Brother Mystic, a few unlearned idiots like Ammar Nakshwani do not represent the whole group. Although their are similar idiots among them (as also in our case) who follow such self-proclaimed aalims.

[Mystic]

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technocore (21.12.2010)

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Salam Brother,

They read the same Quran as us. Our difference with them lies in the extended concept of Imamat and their rejection of most of the companions of the Prophet (saaw), being the primary aspects. As we donot call them non-muslims but believe they are destined for hell due to their misguided aqeeda, similarly, they do not regard us as non-muslims but believe we are destined for hell for our misguided aqeeda. That is whats meant by kaafir in akhira.

Brother no one has the right to say the 12r shia are destined for hell. As much as I disagree and dislike their views, I do not believe there is any proof they will go to hell. They have an equal right to jannah, as much the Sunnis do. As for your interpretation of what they mean when they call us kaffir in the aqira it is not correct. They believe the sahaba are automatically kaffir because they rejected Imam Ali (as) to be the immediate successor of the Prophet (pbuh). For Sunnis they believe we are ignorant of history so there is still a chance for us to become 12rs. Its all a dawah tactic. However, to say we are kaffir in the aqira means we didn't even accept the kalma, and that we will remain in hell forever.  In the Sunni believe if you are Muslim and go to hell, you still have a chance to enter jannah after your period is over.

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Brother Mystic, a few unlearned idiots like Ammar Nakshwani do not represent the whole group. Although their are similar idiots among them (as also in our case) who follow such self-proclaimed aalims.

The problem with the Sunni and shia world is that these type of spicy Mullah have a large number of followers. I've seen great scholars among them, but those shia scholar a small amount of followers.

[Zarb-e-Haidari]

 

This is the evidence Shias give in proof of their Kalima which I will refute at the end 

Imam Ali (as) Shia Kalima (declaration)

The definition of Kalima:
In Arabic grammar 'Kalima' refers to, any sentence that means something for example:

1- 'There is none worthy of worship save Allah'

2- 'The House of Allah is in Makka'

3- 'Allah is the Master of all Creation'

All three Kalima's are correct.

The definition of Kalima Tayyiba

Kalima Tayyiba refers to any sentence that is correct. For example 'Allah is Rabbil Alameen' or 'Alhamdolillah hai Rabbil Alameen' are examples of Kalima Tayyiba as there are true statements.

Allah (swt) says in his Glorious Book in Surah Muhammad verse 19:
" Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes."

Before we go into this topic we would like to issue to challenges to our critics:


*Can you show us any single Hadeeth wherein Rasulullah (sawaw) said that this Kalima was fixed and that no one was allowed to make any additions to it?


*Can you locate the Kalima Tayyiba recited by Sunni brothers 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger' from the Holy Qur'an? By this we don't mean joining up verses we are asking the Sunni brothers to show us this Kalima as a single complete sentence from the Qur'an.

With that let us now prove from Qur'an and Hadeeth that the Kalima that the Shi'a recite is in accordance with the Qur'an and Hadeeth and hence is statement of fact that is valid under the Shari'ah.

The traditional Sunni method to prove the Kalima from the Qur'an:

Incapable of locating a verse wherein this complete Kalima is mentioned our critics tend to piece portions of verses together to prove their point.

The words 'There is no God but Allah' appears in the Qur'an on two occasions. The first time is in Surah Safaath verses 35-36:

"For they, when they were told that there is no god except Allah, would puff themselves up with Pride, And say: "What! shall we give up our gods for the sake of a Poet possessed?"

The second time is in Surah Muhammad verses 19:

" Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes."

As we see these words appear within a sentence / context and are not exclusive sentences within themselves.

The words Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah, appears only once in the entire Qur'an, in Surah Fatah verse 29:

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure."

Like the term 'There is no God but Allah' we also that the term 'Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah' is not an exclusive sentence that would constitute Kalima Tayyiba, on the contrary it forms part of a much wider verse. As we see the terms 'There is no God but Allah' and 'Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah' are two Kalima Tayyibas and yet in the Qur'an at no point do we see either term in the form of Kalima Tayyiba that is one verse with no other additions.

The Ahl'ul Sunnah try to prove the Kalima by merging these two terms together, How can our critics accuse the us/Shi'a of adding to the Qur'an when in order to prove the Kalima they merge together portions from two separate Qur'anic verses?

Kalima Tayyiba from the Holy Qur'an:

We will now cite reference to Kalima Tayyiba from the Qur'an. We read in Surah Fatir verse 10:

"If any do seek for glory and power,- to Allah belong all glory and power. *To Him mount up (all) Words of Purity*: It is He Who exalts each Deed of Righteousness. Those that lay Plots of Evil,- for them is a Penalty terrible; and the plotting of such will be void (of result)."

This verses does not make reference to a single Kalima Tayyiba. It refers to several Kalima Tayyiba's, for the verse refers to 'Kalim'. In Arabic:

*Kalimatun means one Kalima
*Kalimataan means two Kalimas
*Kalim means three or more

Allah (swt) refers to Kalim namely a minimum of three Kailmas being taken up to Him (swt). What are these three Kalimas? The Ahl'ul Sunnah recite two terms 'There is no God but Allah' and 'Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah' but they don't possess a third kalima, and as this verse stipulates it is these Kalima of purity via which deeds are rewarded. As we shall seek to prove, we the Shi'a can identify this third Kalima in light of Qur'anic verses that refer to the Wilayat of Maula 'Ali (as), which is why we recite the third Kalima 'Ali is the Wali of Allah'. We shall now substantiate our assertion with Qur'anic proofs.

Verses proving that Ali bin Abi Talib [as] is Waliullah:

First verse, which we read in Holy Quran:

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

Various explanations of the Holy Quran state that this divine verse was revealed in honor of Imam Ali bin Abi Talib (as) when he gave his ring to a beggar whilst he was bowing during prayers. Unsurpisingly our critics par excellence Ansar.Org have sought to refute this fact in one of their articles but answering-ansar.org has written a detailed refutation of Ansar.org's article which can be read here:
http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/verse_of_wilayah/en/index.php

As per this verse of the Holy Qur'an, Muslims have three guardians (Wali), Almighty Allah, Holy Prophet (s) and Imam Ali (as). By saying "la Ilaha Illallah" we declare the unity of Allah, by saying "Mohammad ar-Rasul Allah" we declare the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (s) and by saying "Ali un-Wali Allah" we declare the guardianship (Wilayat) of Imam Ali (as) and this is necessary because had it not been done, the one-third of this verse would have been left unpracticed.

Second verse:

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

This verse also cites three separate types of obedience. Obedience to Allah (swt), Obedience to the Holy Prophet (s) and to Imam Ali (as), who was the righteous Imam after the Holy Prophet (s) and falls within the meaning of "Ulil Amr". In this connection, Imam Raazi has said that the "Ulil Amr" needs to be infallible just like the Holy Prophet (s) (for further elaboration on this point see answering-ansar's article 'The Creed of the Shi'a'.

Third verse

[Shakir 5:67] O Messenger! Deliver what has been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.

The Sunni scholars of Tafseer have confirmed that this verse descended for Ali (as) at Ghadir e Khum. Moreover Abdullah ibn e Mas'ud is reported to have said that:

"during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (s) we used to recite this verse as:
O Messenger! Deliver what has been revealed to you from your Lord that Ali is master of al belivers...'
1. Tafseer e Durre Manthur, volume 2, page 298, published in Egypt.
2. Tafseer e Fatah ul-Qadeer, volume 2, page 60, published in Egypt.
3. Tafseer e Fatah ul-BaYun, volume 3, page 89, published in Egypt.
http://www.answeringansar.org/fiqh/kalima_adhan/tafseer_mazhari_v3_p353.jpg

The above verse declares the guardianship (Wilayat) of Imam Ali (as) which was conveyed to everyone by the Holy Prophet (s) when he said: "One who has me as his master has Ali as his master".

1. Mishkat al Masabeeh, page 565, published in Delhi.
2. Sunan Tirmidhi, volume 2, page 298, published in Egypt.
3. Marqaat Sharh Mashkaat, volume 11, page 349, published in Multan

Hadeeth scholars have accepted that Hadeeth of Ghadir is not only correct and reliable, but have commented that it has many narrators.
1. Marqaat Sharh Mashkaat, volume 11, page 342, published in Multan.
2. Tadhkirah Hufaaz, volume 3, page 231, published in Deccan.
3. Tafseer e Mazhari, volume 3, page 142, published in Delhi.
4. Madarij al-Nabuwat, volume 2, page 521, published in Nolakshoor.
5. Sawaiq al-Muhriqa, page 40 and page 120, published in Egypt.

From me:

Now as you can see this is what the Shias give as proof and they testify that our Kalima the first two parts exist in the Holy Quran and they try to fool us that the third part of their Kalima exists in the Holy Quran! Where? In the Ayah 5:55 that only states to the Ummah make Ali (as) your wali ! Not Allah's (swt) wali as per Shia Kalima Ali yun waliyullah.

Lets go back to the full ayah they use to prove their Kalima [Surah Maidah 5:55] Only Allah is your Wali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow. The last part is refering to Moula Ali (as) those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow

We the Sunnis and the Shias agree on this that its refering to Hz Moula Ali (as) however as our Wali. But does not state Ali yun waliyullah like we find for the first two parts of our Kalima Surah Fatah verse 29 regarding the Holy Prophet :"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" or The words 'There is no God but Allah' Surah Safaath verses 35-36. 

In light of the above evidence we can conclude that as a creed our Kalima is complete in the Holy Quran as stated word for word but this is not the case for the third Shia addition. Non of the Shia Kitaab ul Arba (four books) state that any of their Imams have ever read the third part as their Kalima nor it was recited during the Holy Prophet (sawaw) time as a Kalima. Imam Ali (as) have been mentioned as the leader of all Walis in Sunni books as well as Shia books.

The dispute is not if Ali yun waliyullah is correct the dispute is the addition of it to the original Kalima. As their Adzaan contains it their Kalima contains it but no reference can be given from the Holy Quran or Salah. As some Shias are trying to add it to the Salah (namaz) and the hardliners are resisting change from their old ways. But some Shias have added it and practice in their Salahs and if they get the upper hand a few centuries later they will claim that it was from the time of the Holy Prophet (sawaw). This deviousness is nothing new in the Shia sect as it is always changing from day one bits being added to it here and there.

We do not see the need is not the requirement of the Kalima as many many places it states in the Holy Quran Ati Allah was Ati ar Rasul do ita'at of Allah (swt) and Rasulullah (sawaw) only at one place its states do Ita'at of the ruler of your time only if he does the ita'at of Allah and his Messenger. 

Here the meaning is regardiung a pious ruler not regarding just Hz Imam Ali (as) as Shia accept Imam Ali (as) as Ma'asoom so why would Allah (swt) point out "IF" they followed Him and His Messenger this means that there would be rulers who did not follow and this cannot apply to the Ahle Bayt e Rasul as they were all sin free and could not go wrong deviate from the straight path. Now the next is that Shias say our waqt e Imam is Imam e Mahdi (as) but do they realing mean that when they are already stating that the ruler of the time (waqt) is Moula Ali (as) according to the Ayah (4:59) as can be seen states "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you.

The word among would not have applied if it was just in reference to Moula Ali (as) or the rest of the 12 Imams.

Shias always use tactics to change meanings of Ayahs to suit themselves, there books and the internet is full of such examples. We have established that the Shia Kalima is not in the Holy Quran ? Any Shia wishes to prove wrong, is welcome. Proof from other books is doubtful because if you cannot provide it from the Holy Quran then that means it is not an article of faith or creed as per Quranic verses.

Allah (azawajal) knows best.

Waslaam