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Shi'ism

Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:24 PM (#21) User is offline   Fatima-Hassan 

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Imran. (24.06.2010)

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Then I read two books about shiism. "Tasfiyah Mabain Sunni o Shia" by "Pir Mehr Ali Shah"


Where in there does Ala Hadrat golravi(ra) declare them all as  kaafir(there is no fatwa of kufr in it at all as far as i know)?


 I just said that I read that book.

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Manzoor nuamani is a deobandi himself,he should worry about his own clan and their aqeeda.


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Then I read two books about shiism. "Tasfiyah Mabain Sunni o Shia" by "Pir Mehr Ali Shah" and "Irani Inqalab, Imam Khomeini Aur Shiat" by "Maulana Muhammad Manzoor Naumani". The latter one I gave to shias and they confirmed that all what is written in this book about our beliefs is correct. About few things they were confused, but confirmed later by asking their community heads.


If a deobandi says that there are some people out there who believe in ___, ___, ___ ..... and if someone goes to shiites and asks them about their beliefs, and they approve the said things by a deobandi, then what's wrong with believing him (deobandi) in that matter?

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:24 PM (#22) User is offline   Fatima-Hassan 

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Luhif (24.06.2010)
Shiites do talk a load of filth about blessed Companions Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar (Radiallaho Anhum Ajmaeen).They do not believe in Khilafah.They say that Khilafah can only be given to the family and deny the Khilafah of other companions.Now I dont know if it takes them out of the fold of Islam but it is definitely a grave sin.


Shiites do talk lots of filth about our Ummahaat Razi ALLAHu Ta'ala Unhuma

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:25 PM (#23) User is offline   Fatima-Hassan 

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Muhammad Afzal Qadiri (24.06.2010)
The only time one can issue fatwa of Kuffur is when someone blatently 'barks' kuffur. (and Not because you feel, think, heard etc)


Feel free to correct!


They were barking kuffr as they were denying verses of Holy Quran.

Now tell me, what should I call them?

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:25 PM (#24) User is offline   Fatima-Hassan 

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You have Kamil-Yaqin than what proof or evidences do you want? (by Desert Sheikh)

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so much curious to know all those sound reasons behind it, just to get Yaqin-e-Kamil.


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I wanted to hear the truth myself, of course for Yaqin-e-Kamil.


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Kya pata mai hi ghalat hoon? So I requested you people to give references in their favor. Because my hatred for them was getting worse every second.


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I posted the topic because I wanted to discuss with you people.


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It was Sunday, I guess, when I posted this topic, and today is Friday. By some more discussions with other people, I got to know more about their reality.


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:26 PM (#25) User is offline   Fatima-Hassan 

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Only fools call ALL Whabi Shia for Kafirs

If people say that we believe ___, ___, ___, ... and those things go against Islam, then what will we call them? By the way, when did I say that all wahabis are kafirs?

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 10:33 PM (#26) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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Fatima Hasan (25.06.2010)

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Muhammad Afzal Qadiri (24.06.2010)
The only time one can issue fatwa of Kuffur is when someone blatently 'barks' kuffur. (and Not because you feel, think, heard etc)


Feel free to correct!


They were barking kuffr as they were denying verses of Holy Quran.

Now tell me, what should I call them?


If you know that one is committing Kuffr or denying Zarroriat-e-Deen than ASK/discuss a reliablescholar and act on his advice. It’s not everyone’s job to declare people kafir or shout Kafir, kafir. Saying something Kuffr or bieng Kafir are two different things, it is a very sensitive matter. If a reliable scholar confirms that person Kafir than you can call that person Kafir. 

 

PS: Never say Shia orDevbandi or Wahabi are kafir, we cannot generalize the entire group.

 


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Posted 27 June 2010 - 03:45 PM (#27) User is offline   Fatima-Hassan 

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Desert Sheikh (25.06.2010)

If you know that one is committing Kuffr or denying Zarroriat-e-Deen than ASK/discuss a reliablescholar and act on his advice. It’s not everyone’s job to declare people kafir or shout Kafir, kafir.

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If a reliable scholar confirms that person Kafir than you can call that person Kafir.


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Desert Sheikh (23.06.2010)

PS: If you are just looking for a one line statement "Kafir, Kafir, Fullan Kafir", than you are at a wrong place. This is YaNabi.com not a Fatwa-factory. We are failed to provide xyz references because we hate to throw people out of Islam.


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Fatima Hasan (24.06.2010)


PS: All those Shiites about whom I told, go to their majalis regularly and have a vast knowledge of their own fake books. I told this whole story because I don't need one line statement. I am not looking for any Fatwa from anywhere or anyone. By the way, who is Mufti here to issue a Fatwa?


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Saying something Kuffr or bieng Kafir are two different things, it is a very sensitive matter.

Yes, I know. But Ailaania Gunah, Ailaania Tauba. They persist on their profanity and don't consider the need of reiteration of faith.

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 03:46 PM (#28) User is offline   Fatema-the-resplendent 

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BROTHER Fatima Hassan... First of all not sure you are really a female your tone suggests otherwise. Call it female intuition. You must be a very self assured Muslim who is sure that Allah has acceted his version of Islam and that you make no mistakes. Stranger still wouldn't it be more useful to you to focus your energies on making yourself a better person? You emanate very negative energy therefore your focus on Islam is politically motivated and serves no purpose other than promulgating hatred. Such a sad state of mind you have. Shiites are about as kafiir as we are muslim, no one knows. Each case is individual, there could be many non muslim muslims. Although in essence I disgaree with any form of extremist views be it Shia or wahabi but even I do not have the autonomy to categorise people on Allahs' behalf.
...And my mercy embraces all things.

(Surah al araf, Quran)
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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:02 PM (#29) User is offline   Fatima-Hassan 

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Fatema the resplendent (27.06.2010)
BROTHER Fatima Hassan...First of all not sure you are really a female your tone suggests otherwise. Call it female intuition.You must be a very self assured Muslim who is sure that Allah has acceted his version of Islam and that you make no mistakes. Stranger still wouldn't it be more useful to you to focus your energies on making yourself a better person? You emanate very negative energy therefore your focus on Islam is politically motivated and serves no purpose other than promulgating hatred. Such a sad state of mind you have.Shiites are about as kafiir as we are muslim, no one knows. Each case is individual, there could be many non muslim muslims. Although in essence I disgaree with any form of extremist views be it Shia or wahabi but even I do not have the autonomy to categorise people on Allahs' behalf.


Does not matter what you think about me.

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 02:05 AM (#30) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

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Fatema the resplendent (27.06.2010)
BROTHER Fatima Hassan... First of all not sure you are really a female your tone suggests otherwise. Call it female intuition. 


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Fatima Hasan (27.06.2010)
Does not matter what you think about me


I had my doubts and you have just confirmed them. Thank you, yet another coward hiding behind a female shield to promote his venom. You are a menace to humanity.
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Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:05 PM (#31) User is offline   Fatima-Hassan 

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Qanbar (29.06.2010)

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Fatema the resplendent (27.06.2010)
BROTHER Fatima Hassan... First of all not sure you are really a female your tone suggests otherwise. Call it female intuition. 


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Fatima Hasan (27.06.2010)
Does not matter what you think about me


I had my doubts and you have just confirmed them. Thank you, yet another coward hiding behind a female shield to promote his venom. You are a menace to humanity.


Anything else you wanna say? Feel free to add more comments.

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 01:22 AM (#32) User is offline   shez1983 

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I hate it when muslims argue but I hate it more when muslims try to be diplomatic/apologetic..

Ok ONE hadeeth of Holy Prophet can establish the right or wrong assuming that hadeeth is sahih/reliable:

"Jews had 72 sects, Xians have 73 and my ummah will have 74 and only ONE of those will enter heaven"

Now what do you think this hadeeth means? if all sects are muslims.. then this hadeeth is wrong otherwise how can muslims go to hell? 

any elaboration is appreciated!
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Posted 03 July 2010 - 01:29 AM (#33) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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shez1983 (03.07.2010)
I hate it when muslims argue but I hate it more when muslims try to be diplomatic/apologetic..

Ok ONE hadeeth of Holy Prophet can establish the right or wrong assuming that hadeeth is sahih/reliable:

"Jews had 72 sects, Xians have 73 and my ummah will have 74 and only ONE of those will enter heaven"

Now what do you think this hadeeth means? if all sects are muslims.. then this hadeeth is wrong otherwise how can muslims go to hell? 

any elaboration is appreciated!


You will not be able to understand any elaboration. 
PS: Hater's keep hating.....
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Posted 03 July 2010 - 01:54 AM (#34) User is offline   Imran. 

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shez1983 (03.07.2010)
I hate it when muslims argue but I hate it more when muslims try to be diplomatic/apologetic..

Ok ONE hadeeth of Holy Prophet can establish the right or wrong assuming that hadeeth is sahih/reliable:

"Jews had 72 sects, Xians have 73 and my ummah will have 74 and only ONE of those will enter heaven"

Now what do you think this hadeeth means? if all sects are muslims.. then this hadeeth is wrong otherwise how can muslims go to hell? 

any elaboration is appreciated!


correction: "jews had/divided into 71 sects,christians 72 sects,my ummah will divide into 73 sects......"

The word "ummah" is clearly mentioned,meaning all these sects will still be a part of the ummah(a non muslim cannot be from the ummah),although 72 will be in error and only 1 will be on correct belief(s).

The 72 will go to hell for a certain period, but not forever like the non muslims.

Why cant a muslim go to hell?
La Ilaha Ill Allahu Muhammadur Rasool Allah
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Posted 03 July 2010 - 01:56 AM (#35) User is offline   Mudassar-Rana 

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shez - understand that firqa in shariah is different to what it means in urdu. To farq on aqeeda is a sect i.e. extra prophet etc different maslaks like hanafi shafi etc are not sects - please open your heart and mind. Allah's rasool did not come to condemn his ummat to jahannam. His s.a.w last words were "ya ummi" - my ummah. it wasnt my bareliwi or my wahabbi.
my brothers are those who will believe in me, without having seen me.” [Ahmad, Musnad]

Jaag Muslmaan Jaag Muslmaan ... kitna naacho gai ghairon ki dhun par?Jis ummat mein rab ne sher paida kiye aaj wohi gheedar ka libaas apna muqaddar samjh bethi
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Posted 03 July 2010 - 02:39 AM (#36) User is offline   shez1983 

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^ I am not talking about hanafis etc..

are you out of your mind.. if i said that there is another Prophet then i am not a muslim, nor a sect of muslims/islam.. eg Ahmedis/Qadyanis ARE NOT a sect of muslims as they are kaafirs..  

Sect is where we all have common aqeedah but some differences ie shias with their Ali (as) issue, Wahabis with their biddah issue etc.. 




He didnt condemn his ummah to jahannam.. but his hadeeth is clear cut; it was a prophecy.. there is another hadeeth which I heard once so forgetting the detail but it was something like:

Holy Prophet prayed to ALlah that He doesnt want three things to happen to His peace be upon him) ummah... His first two wishes were something like: we dont suffer and that we dont get azaab of Allah or something like that.. to which ALlah said "yes"! When Holy Prophet was about to make the third wish, ALlah stopped him peace be upon him) and said that will happen and I dont want you to make the wish because then I would have to accept it.. and the third wish of Holy Prophet was that his ummah shouldnt divide and fight amongst each other

Ok so I dont remember the first two wishes, but i do remember the Important BIT ie relevant details.. 



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Posted 03 July 2010 - 03:12 AM (#37) User is offline   Mudassar-Rana 

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read my message properly - i said different maslaks are not sects. majority of shia regard as a walli of allah which is the way of the ahle sunnah. Wahabbi's have their issues with bidda, kufr and shirk etc - but still they are not a sect. a sect is like qadiyani or nation of islam. these are out of the fold of islam.

my point is sects are kafir. maslaks or different fiqh's are just different schools of thought so do not count as the 72 that are going into jahannam.

Allah's rasool s.a.w also said that muslims will conquer istanbul - sahaba spent 900 years trying to conquer it. He s.aw. also said muslims will conquer hind and then conquer jerusalem. These are also prophecies why not try to achieve them instead talking about different sects.

I reiterate again that I didnt say you said - i was making a point that we ought not try to create friction because allah's rasool s.a.w also said that shaitan's throne is on the ocean and when he sends his people out he asks them to make friends with those who create fitna.

So the ummah should concentrate on healing wounds not pouring salt on them, otherwise the kuffar will continue eating you like pieces of meat - that is another prophecy!
my brothers are those who will believe in me, without having seen me.” [Ahmad, Musnad]

Jaag Muslmaan Jaag Muslmaan ... kitna naacho gai ghairon ki dhun par?Jis ummat mein rab ne sher paida kiye aaj wohi gheedar ka libaas apna muqaddar samjh bethi
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Posted 03 July 2010 - 03:49 AM (#38) User is offline   shez1983 

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your thinking is a bit wrong.. while i like you saying about masalak etc..  your take on what you consider a sect is WRONG..

the fact is that qadyanis are not a sect of muslim/islam.. to be a sect of ISLAM you have to be a muslim first.. so according to you christianity can be considered a sect of Islam since they too are kaafirs? 
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Posted 03 July 2010 - 04:41 PM (#39) User is offline   shez1983 

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Desert Sheikh (03.07.2010)

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shez1983 (03.07.2010)
I hate it when muslims argue but I hate it more when muslims try to be diplomatic/apologetic..

Ok ONE hadeeth of Holy Prophet can establish the right or wrong assuming that hadeeth is sahih/reliable:

"Jews had 72 sects, Xians have 73 and my ummah will have 74 and only ONE of those will enter heaven"

Now what do you think this hadeeth means? if all sects are muslims.. then this hadeeth is wrong otherwise how can muslims go to hell? 

any elaboration is appreciated!


You will not be able to understand any elaboration. 
PS: Hater's keep hating.....


changing font size/style/colour doesnt mean you are RIGHT!! 

I think you are still fuming over because I didnt agree with your other "equality" post.... you should keep your nafs and desires in check.. otherwise you look like a hypocrite and have no right to be a moderator when you cant be impartial and hold on to previous things.. 
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Posted 03 July 2010 - 04:43 PM (#40) User is offline   shez1983 

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Imran. (03.07.2010)

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shez1983 (03.07.2010)
I hate it when muslims argue but I hate it more when muslims try to be diplomatic/apologetic..

Ok ONE hadeeth of Holy Prophet can establish the right or wrong assuming that hadeeth is sahih/reliable:

"Jews had 72 sects, Xians have 73 and my ummah will have 74 and only ONE of those will enter heaven"

Now what do you think this hadeeth means? if all sects are muslims.. then this hadeeth is wrong otherwise how can muslims go to hell? 

any elaboration is appreciated!


correction: "jews had/divided into 71 sects,christians 72 sects,my ummah will divide into 73 sects......"

The word "ummah" is clearly mentioned,meaning all these sects will still be a part of the ummah(a non muslim cannot be from the ummah),although 72 will be in error and only 1 will be on correct belief(s).

The 72 will go to hell for a certain period, but not forever like the non muslims.

Why cant a muslim go to hell?





the hadeeth doesnt mention nor clarify whether muslims will enter hell for a certain period etc... so I hope (& really hope) you are right because I dont want a kaafir to go to hell let alone a muslim..




secondly: why cant a muslim go to hell:  by this I meant a muslim cant go to hell indefinitely and this is what i THOUGHT/THINK to be true..
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