[Tahir-Riaz]

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sultansalim (16.06.2010)

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But i would love to see a point to point reply to his evidences.

Dear brother you are missing the point. This discussion is about normative principals of decency and I will not allow anyone to confuse the topic with deviant this or that.

This is an Islamic lecture and civilized people can't play it for their KIDS. That's the issue, so please keep your focus on the right place.


 

[Zarb-e-Ali]

Listen to his you ifran shah! 

 

 

 

 

[samzus]

http://www.yanabi.com/Hadith.aspx?HadithID=126320

[Roaming-Soul]

@ Zarb E Ali

To be honest brother the only thing I respect in your post is the fact you spent sometime typing that. I was gona reply but after noticing drainage level you have dropped yourself to, its not worthy a reply. Sorry not exactly a kind reply as you might have expected it.


WaSalaam.

[Zarb-e-Ali]

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Muhammad Afzal Qadiri (16.06.2010)

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@ Zarb E Ali

To be honest brother the only thing I respect in your post is the fact you spent sometime typing that. I was gona reply but after noticing drainage level you have dropped yourself too, its not worthy a reply. Sorry not exactly a kind reply as you might have expected it.


WaSalaam.

Oh please Oh please! Open your eyes, brains, ears, mouth, heart, hands, everything! And understand what that guy has said in those little 10 minutes! And its just one of his many many speeches! Why cant you understand it? Whats so hard? Your love and devotion to irfan shah wont get you into jannat (if thats what you'r hoping for) but you love and devotion for this depressed humanity will get you into it! Dont you know anti-islamic forces have always used the sect-hate to destroy muslim lands and its people! Heck, catholics and protestants have more extreme differences between them then any muslim sect, but even they dont preach such things!

Do you agree with Irfan shah? Ya wana cut offs my head, yeah, jus try it dude. I think its ok to pray behind wahabi mullahs. I dont have problem with ifran shah, i have problem with terrorism and extremism. If the west thinks i am a born terrorist, its because of people like irfan shah.

 DOWN WITH SECTARIAN SCUMS!

 

Ps, please spare some minutes and listen to Dr Tahir above.



 

[Tahir-Riaz]

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sultansalim (16.06.2010)

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That is fine that we do not want to divert the topic to name-calling of groups or people. But what i want cleared is that is Sayyid Irfan Shah Sahib justified in behaving like this with the evidences he has provided? He is justifying his mannerism with textual evidences. Surely those opposing his behaviour must be able to answer those 'evidences'. I want to see how.

The call of nature does not look for fatwa's. I wouldn't address ANY Islamic scholar as DALLA even if some concocted Hadith suggested that I could do so. I can't believe I'm reading this, this man thinks that calling leading Islamic scholars DALLA is a part of Islamic curriculum and can be justified.

You can't defend insanity without becoming insane and guess what? I'm not interested :)


 

[Zarb-e-Ali]

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[b]sultansalim (16.06.2010)[/b]But what i want cleared is that is Sayyid Irfan Shah Sahib justified in behaving like this with the evidences he has provided? He is justifying his mannerism with textual evidences. Surely those opposing his behaviour must be able to answer those 'evidences'. I want to see how.

Justified? Yea right, all he has somehow managed to justify is like it is ok and sawab to kill of gustakhs and hypoctries (where he is referrin to Dr Tahir). He justifies his stance on total mass extermination of all gustakhs/shias/ and those sunnis who dont agree with Takfeer of other sects, from the face of earth. He has justified his stance on beheadings, and in the end, he has justified that something partical should be done now since he has given enough sermons! I oppose his shick behaviour and i dont need anything to prove that terrorism and extremism is wrong. Even a 2 year old kid will start crying if you shout this much loud infront of him, i wonder how those dumb sheeps can listen to him and say 'Allah o Akhar'!

 

[Roaming-Soul]

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Zarb e Ali (16.06.2010)
Justified? Yea right, all he has somehow managed to justify is like it is ok and sawab to kill of gustakhs and hypoctries (where he is referrin to Dr Tahir). He justifies his stance on total mass extermination of all gustakhs/shias/ and those sunnis who dont agree with Takfeer of other sects, from the face of earth. He has justified his stance on beheadings, and in the end, he has justified that something partical should be done now since he has given enough sermons! I oppose his shick behaviour and i dont need anything to prove that terrorism and extremism is wrong. Even a 2 year old kid will start crying if you shout this much loud infront of him, i wonder how those dumb sheeps can listen to him and say 'Allah o Akhar'!

Brother, I strongly suggest you go and see some psychiatrist tomorrow. Hazrat Qibla Shah Sahaib is a great scholar look at the  bigger picture and not at what suites your desire. Your comparison of Shah Sahaib to terrorism are baseless as he is well a known outspoken anti-deobundi/salafi/wahabi Scholar.

I can assure you he is not from Lal Masjid and if you gotto a problem with him, than simply stop listen to his speeches.

[Zarb-e-Ali]

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[b]Muhammad Afzal Qadiri (16.06.2010)[/b
Brother, I strongly suggest you go and see some psychiatrist tomorrow. Hazrat Qibla Shah Sahaib is a great scholar look at the  bigger picture and not at what suites your desire. Your comparison of Shah Sahaib to terrorism are baseless as he is well known outspoken anti-deobundi/salafi/wahabi Scholar.

I can assure you he is not from Lal Masjid and if you gotto a problem with him, than simply don't listen to him.

 

Woha! Am i talking to a robot here or with a living human being with no senses? Do you understand urdu? The 3rd most spoken and understood language around the world? If you do then please go and translate all above speeches of your blessed Qibla sahab in English. Dont censor it. He is calling for open voilence, mass murder, loot and plunder in the above clip. He calls that its a blessed deed to kill hypocrites and not make peace with them,he forgets that it was Rasool Allah who issued those commands, and he is not Rasool Allah (or maybe he thinks so). He is using 3rd class village illiterate language in the clip above. He is shouting like there is no tomorrow! All in the blessed Masjid, the house of Allah. Do i still need to go to psyct, or you do? Are you on pay-roll of this peer? No wonder how did mirza gulam ahmad qadiani was able to get staunch followers! Please be fair and netural.

 

I dont care if he is from lal masjid, or Noorani white masjid, We dont need sunni terrorists to fight wahabi terrorits, thus i refute and refuse all type of terrorism and people who promote voilence in the name of Sectarianism. Such mullahs should be lashed in Public along with their mad followers. I wish this guy was in U.A.E.

[qalam]

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Muhammad Afzal Qadiri (16.06.2010)

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Qanbar (16.06.2010)

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Now tell me something, is there a different Islam for scholars than the layman? If the rule above is applicable for all Muslims then where does that Put Irfan Shah Sahab for calling Dr. Sahab a DALLA while sitting on MIMBARE Rasool?

Unethical and wrong regardless of the justification you may carry for it.

I have no authority/knowledge to speak for or against what Qibla Shah Sahaib said and why. My point is simple, I have utmost respect for noble scholars of Islam, be it Dr Tahir Ul Qadiri Sahaib or Shah Sahaib. It makes my blood boil to see users of Sajid/Qalam calibre openly degrading scholars. 

Brother if you think im trying to degrade this forum, than I would kindly request you to: get some sleep! :)

BTW - its not about what you and I think, its our intentions, that matter.

Salam

why am I  being targeted and being dragged into this thread. If you have a problem with my style please pm me or start another thread . don’t polute this one

 

when did i disrespect the scholars

does this guy - irfan shah make your blood boil aslso

Dr aq

[qalam]

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Muhammad Afzal Qadiri (16.06.2010)

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(@ Tahir) No my brother, if my views are hypocrytical just because they happen to clash with your views than I shall speak no more...!

But what about those lunatic users (likes of Qalam/sajid) who are openly challenging sunni-unity thats an excellent form of defence isn't? As machiavelli said 'attack is the best form of defence'.

Having said this, I'll ponder on your constructive critism.

salam

give examples of my lunacy and where i have challenegd this utopian concept of sunni unity?

dr aq

[Imran.]

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sultansalim (16.06.2010)

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Because this calls for an intellectual response and not emotional epiphets, i would like to see from those objecting to Sayyid Irfan Shah's method of preaching, a point to point response of his evidences. From amongst those evidences was the verse of the Quran:

'waghluz a'layhi' (Surah Tawbah) and this verse was revealed as an abrogating verse.

He also provided examples of where Sahabah were harsh to disbeleivers, and even used the word 'dog'. The Khawarij were also referred to as 'dogs of hellfire'. So why then is Irfan Shah wrong to swear at ahlul bid'a?

But i would love to see a point to point reply to his evidences.

Intellectual responses can only be give to intelligent questions/arguments presented.

Let me simplify it for your brother,you cannot go around refferring to specific individuals(especially sunni scholars) as dalla's,dogs,hijras etc with the intention to the insult their person,its simply haram and against the conditions of adab,and when you get a scholars who are supposedly a form of guidance to the masses doing so,its both dangerous and a mockery of deen,aswell as giving a  pretext to other sects to make a laughing stock of sunnis.

I cant believe someone is trying to prove insulting/swearing at individual muslims  via "textul evidences", this is both absurd and an insult to the sacred deen in itself.

An example would be, that Xcalled y a "haraami"(born out of wedlock/b****D) with intention to insult Y

Follower of X comes here and tries to exhonerate his mentor by claiming that There are instances of disbelievers being born out of wedlock mentioned in hadith etc therefore what is wrong with calling a muslim scholar as such?

You see how silly it is?

There is a clear difference between "disbelievers" as mentioned in quran and sunni scholars whom one has a difference of opinion with.

The former were non muslim,whereas the latter are with in islam and part of the ummah.

Khwarij were called dogs of hell as a whole group and as an indication/insinuation of their condition in the next life, this would be in contrast to me pulling up an individual wahabi/shia and calling him kanjar,hijra,kuttha etc for the sake of insulting alone.

 

[Imran.]

[quote]sultansalim (16.06.2010)

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Another example of unacceptable language:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKrDoH2F-VA&feature=player_embedded 

[/quote]



This guy(in video) is neither the posterboy nor sher/lion of a certain group of sunnis(as  irfan shah seems to be neo brelvis these days) nor  todays ala hadrat(as one idiot called him irfan shah sahib),but just a hanger on i believe.

As for the word that i assume is being made light of, its not a certain part of the male anatomy that is mentioned but the punjabi word "lang" meaning path/way/route,  or sometimes can be used as the passage of time/journey of life etc, especially as the dream is about a following a path or route and symblic following of a great hasti.



"Mere putar de lang which hath na paye = do not get in/ or be an obstacle in the way of my son.."(very simply put)


This is what happens when very young mirpuri massairs(with dirty minds) try to interprete  punjabi.

[naqee]

My reply to this TOPIC!

Apne Peer Ko Chode Mat, Duje Peer Ko Chede Mat

Apni Nisbat Aage Badhaye Jaa!

Kilk-e-Nazmi Haq Numa Se Jab Bhi Takraoge,

Rubb-e-Ka'aba Ki Qasam Aundhe Moonh Gir Jaoge!

[blogger]

Shah Saheb's language cannot be excused. But what about the incident many years ago when Dr Saheb was chased out of a Masjid in Durban (South Africa)? What an unfortunate and sad state of affairs in the presence of respected scholars such as Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan and Allama Zia-ul-Mustafa, are we truly following the Sunnah of our Beloved Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam?

[MDeen]

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Zarb e Ali (16.06.2010)

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[b]sultansalim (16.06.2010)[/b]But what i want cleared is that is Sayyid Irfan Shah Sahib justified in behaving like this with the evidences he has provided? He is justifying his mannerism with textual evidences. Surely those opposing his behaviour must be able to answer those 'evidences'. I want to see how.

Justified? Yea right, all he has somehow managed to justify is like it is ok and sawab to kill of gustakhs and hypoctries (where he is referrin to Dr Tahir). He justifies his stance on total mass extermination of all gustakhs/shias/ and those sunnis who dont agree with Takfeer of other sects, from the face of earth. He has justified his stance on beheadings, and in the end, he has justified that something partical should be done now since he has given enough sermons! I oppose his shick behaviour and i dont need anything to prove that terrorism and extremism is wrong. Even a 2 year old kid will start crying if you shout this much loud infront of him, i wonder how those dumb sheeps can listen to him and say 'Allah o Akhar'!

 

Please can you refrain your stupidity with immediate effect!!

You tell me a time when you can not say Allah Hu Akbar? It does not matter who is saying what, you can still say Allah Hu Akbar

What Does Allah Hu Akbar mean? Allah is the greatest how can that ever be wrong?

Even animals praise Allah SWT and our beloved Prophet Muhammad SAW, so there is nothing wrong with humans praising the All Mighty.

You talk about sheep like that because of reasons no other than vanity. Have you ever sat down to think for a moment about a sheep?? I don't know if you do Qurbani but if it wasn't for 'these' sheeps many of us wouldnt be able to afford to do Qurabni.

My advice to you is please think before you speak, you seem very eager to get you point across, but you dont seem to be thinking about what you are saying and if what you are saying is viable or even if its disrespectful to others.

Irfan Shah MAY have done wrong but I dont think your helping your self in anyway by saying things like what I have highlighted above.

Unfortunately I am not a mod and if I was I would have got rid of that bit atleast.

[blogger]

Sorry for going a bit off-topic, I tried to make this point in the other topic.
We are quite rightly offended by the behaviour of Irfan Shah Saheb (and other scholars who call him Dr Padri) towards Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri.

I for one will continue to benefit from Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri's works and am proud to see him representing Sunnism and Islam in general. But some of the users who have stated that it is quite ridiculous to assume that Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri could be out of the fold of the Ahle Sunnat should really find out what their own Murshid believes. They'll find that their own Murshid is in the same camp as Syed Irfan Shah Saheb (maybe not as voiciferous).

So the question is why don't we take our arguments to our own Pirs as well as Syed Irfan Shah Saheb?

[hafiz-qadri]

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blogger (17.06.2010)

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Sorry for going a bit off-topic, I tried to make this point in the other topic.
We are quite rightly offended by the behaviour of Irfan Shah Saheb (and other scholars who call him Dr Padri) towards Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri.

I for one will continue to benefit from Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri's works and am proud to see him representing Sunnism and Islam in general. But some of the users who have stated that it is quite ridiculous to assume that Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri could be out of the fold of the Ahle Sunnat should really find out what their own Murshid believes. They'll find that their own Murshid is in the same camp as Syed Irfan Shah Saheb (maybe not as voiciferous).

So the question is why don't we take our arguments to our own Pirs as well as Syed Irfan Shah Saheb?

We will not even consider to Follow your Diversion, but Politely request for a little understanding towards our grieviances,which are very difficult to digest for some Blind Followers.So far the Blind Followers have failed miserably to Justify their Sher e Ahle Sunnat.Maybe just maybe their Hearts agree but their Minds are still involved in playing Games.

PS. Blogger please stick to the Topic and Yanabi.com does not need you to Advertise it's contents/ Mods/Members on other sites.

[hafiz-qadri]

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M.Deen (17.06.2010)

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Zarb e Ali (16.06.2010)

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[b]sultansalim (16.06.2010)[/b]But what i want cleared is that is Sayyid Irfan Shah Sahib justified in behaving like this with the evidences he has provided? He is justifying his mannerism with textual evidences. Surely those opposing his behaviour must be able to answer those 'evidences'. I want to see how.

Justified? Yea right, all he has somehow managed to justify is like it is ok and sawab to kill of gustakhs and hypoctries (where he is referrin to Dr Tahir). He justifies his stance on total mass extermination of all gustakhs/shias/ and those sunnis who dont agree with Takfeer of other sects, from the face of earth. He has justified his stance on beheadings, and in the end, he has justified that something partical should be done now since he has given enough sermons! I oppose his shick behaviour and i dont need anything to prove that terrorism and extremism is wrong. Even a 2 year old kid will start crying if you shout this much loud infront of him, i wonder how those dumb sheeps can listen to him and say 'Allah o Akhar'!

 

Please can you refrain your stupidity with immediate effect!!

You tell me a time when you can not say Allah Hu Akbar? It does not matter who is saying what, you can still say Allah Hu Akbar

What Does Allah Hu Akbar mean? Allah is the greatest how can that ever be wrong?

Even animals praise Allah SWT and our beloved Prophet Muhammad SAW, so there is nothing wrong with humans praising the All Mighty.

You talk about sheep like that because of reasons no other than vanity. Have you ever sat down to think for a moment about a sheep?? I don't know if you do Qurbani but if it wasn't for 'these' sheeps many of us wouldnt be able to afford to do Qurabni.

My advice to you is please think before you speak, you seem very eager to get you point across, but you dont seem to be thinking about what you are saying and if what you are saying is viable or even if its disrespectful to others.

Irfan Shah MAY have done wrong but I dont think your helping your self in anyway by saying things like what I have highlighted above.

Unfortunately I am not a mod and if I was I would have got rid of that bit atleast.

M.Deen;;;When Scholars behave in an abnormal way from Mimbar E Rasool (Astagfirullah) is a better suited response.

[bd8bo]

I know many people within Minhaj ul Quran who have speak highly of Qiblah Shah Saab and many People who do not like Shah Saab. The same for people who follow Shah Saab i know some who speak highly of Dr. Tahir ul Qadri Saab.

I don't see the point of such threads its just a oppurutnity to bash the scholars of Deen, people who are much learned then us, if we really have a problem addess it with the person and he will give you an answer. Just like the caller did on Ummah Channel and Shah Saab answered him it is simple instead of spreading a campaign of hate against aUlemah just speak to that person yourself and you will get an answer like it or not! Shah Saab was asked a question and he answered to his knowledge.

Qiblah Shah Saab has cleared up a lot of issues on Ummah Channel where a lot of people have benefited.  Dr. Tahir ul Qadri Saab have also cleared up a lot of issues in regards to Shiayath and so fourth. Both Ulemah are strong followers of Imam Ahmed Raza Khan Brelvi (AleyheyRahmah)  and both have gained faiz from Bareilly Shareef so whats the problem. They will always be disagreement.

a leave you with a story.

A father wanted his son to be a great alim-e-deen so he took him to the Dar ul Uloom to a great Alim and he said i want my son to be a great Alim but i want it in one night, the Mufti replied this is not possible! The boys father said it is possible please do it. Despite the boys father not listening to the Mufti the Mufti decided to take the boy on to teach him.

During the night the Mufti told the boy if anyone ever asks a questions about anything Aqaid, Fiqh just say 'is vich ikhtalaaf hai jee'. The next morning his father came back and said to the Mufti is my son a great Alim-e-deen the Mufti said yes you may take your son now. He was in in shock. So on the way home the father asks 'do you have to keep a beard' he son replies 'is vich ikhtalaaf hai jee' his father is like MashAllah my son has learned a lot. He then asks so more questions but he keeps getting the same answer. He eventually asks son you keep giving me the same answer. Remember I am your father he replies 'is vich ikhtalaaf hai jee'.

Ponder.