[Know-the-Ledge]

I find your plight absolutely hilarious, for many reasons. Why try to run before you can even crawl?

I'm glad that you realise that non-muslims can't be convinced through illogical emotional outbursts and pothawari one-liners. The fact that the vast majority of our ulemah have befallen to this level doesn't alter the harsh reality of vast intellegensia that is swarming around you.

What you need to remember, is that until you have the knowledge and nous to try and tackle these type of people, then the general rule of thumb is 'if you can't convince them, then confuse them'.  Just continue to act like a complete charlatan and waffle on like you know what you're talking about, they'll soon get bored and the tacit understanding that you're not for turning.

I'm also glad that you've realsied your grave lack of faith and belief, maybe it will act as an impetus to try and realise God through thought and discard the song singing mullahs.

[arabspyder]

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Know the Ledge (18.03.2010)

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I find your plight absolutely hilarious, for many reasons. Why try to run before you can even crawl?

I'm glad that you realise that non-muslims can't be convinced through illogical emotional outbursts and pothawari one-liners. The fact that the vast majority of our ulemah have befallen to this level doesn't alter the harsh reality of vast intellegensia that is swarming around you.

What you need to remember, is that until you have the knowledge and nous to try and tackle these type of people, then the general rule of thumb is 'if you can't convince them, then confuse them'.  Just continue to act like a complete charlatan and waffle on like you know what you're talking about, they'll soon get bored and the tacit understanding that you're not for turning.

I'm also glad that you've realsied your grave lack of faith and belief, maybe it will act as an impetus to try and realise God through thought and discard the song singing mullahs.

 

I understand that you must use your thoughts too when facing situations like these but WOW do you have like no respect for ulema's? Now you are going to say that "I said majority of them not all."  Well a scholar is a scholar, and they have a certain status and a lvevel of respect. I used to have high respects for you and would think you were one of the most knowledgeable brothers on the forum, but now I feel the complete opposite

[Fatema-the-resplendent]

'Don't try to convince him, seek to justify Islam to yourselves'

Great line!

[Burak]

First of all thanks for responding and please dont turn this into a mean debate. Also I wonder why the moderator changed the name of the topic. There is loads of wrong spellings whoever did that.

[Fekay]

brother Burak, i to was at the stage your are in now,infact it was only a year ago when i was so doubtful about god that i tried to look for proof of his existence.

To be honest i was actually afraid to ask anyone for the proof of gods existence, because i was afraid of what they might think of me but then i started researching on the internet. Thats the reason i am at yanabi now.

I recommend harun yahya for you as it is great source which provides a great deal of important information which will convince you that god exists, and he is Allah(swt).

[Asfoor-ul-Madina]

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ImamSuyuti (18.03.2010)

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Asfoor ul Madina (18.03.2010)

But I still believe that pre-caution is better than caution, ie- this subject needs to be discussed and taught to the youth by ulema so that they know the difference between the right and wrong.

Salaamz Sister

Afwan minkum, maybe I was harsh in my words (I am working on it InshaAllah Ta'ala)

Anyway, I did not say dont ask such questions but cautioned him to stay away form such people. Asking questions is not the issue but discussing with such individuals without adequate knowledge can have serious consequences on ones Imaan and this takes priority.

as you say above, should be taught by Ulama. Need i say more?

Wassalam

I know what you mean Imam Sahib, I respect your opinion, there's no need to be sorry don't ask for forgiveness from me :)

I mentioned lema specifically because they need to be guiding us with the islamic teachings- ie what our correct aqida must be of His (jalla jalaluhu) zaat, sifaat and f'il. However, as we know this topic is commonly revolved with athiests using scientific 'theories' (not facts) to make their point. Therefore I do believe that it is acceptable to be discussed on a forum where there are likely to be people that have a scientific background to their understanding who can help.

If I have wronged, Allah forgive me.

Brother Burak, are the answes helping you? It doesn't matter if you can't tell the athiest this,if you are not confident enough to at the moment. What you need to do is to be very confident in your own belief fist that Allah exists.

[Burak]

Ofcourse it helps :)

[Know-the-Ledge]

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Owais qadri (18.03.2010)

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Know the Ledge (18.03.2010)

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I find your plight absolutely hilarious, for many reasons. Why try to run before you can even crawl?

I'm glad that you realise that non-muslims can't be convinced through illogical emotional outbursts and pothawari one-liners. The fact that the vast majority of our ulemah have befallen to this level doesn't alter the harsh reality of vast intellegensia that is swarming around you.

What you need to remember, is that until you have the knowledge and nous to try and tackle these type of people, then the general rule of thumb is 'if you can't convince them, then confuse them'.  Just continue to act like a complete charlatan and waffle on like you know what you're talking about, they'll soon get bored and the tacit understanding that you're not for turning.

I'm also glad that you've realsied your grave lack of faith and belief, maybe it will act as an impetus to try and realise God through thought and discard the song singing mullahs.

 

I understand that you must use your thoughts too when facing situations like these but WOW do you have like no respect for ulema's? Now you are going to say that "I said majority of them not all."  Well a scholar is a scholar, and they have a certain status and a lvevel of respect. I used to have high respects for you and would think you were one of the most knowledgeable brothers on the forum, but now I feel the complete opposite

 

If maintaining my self-respect means that I slant and dilute my opinion in order to protect other peoples' personal agendas, then I don't want respect.  Name me scholars that are challenging and refuting people such as Richard dawkins? And not rabidly chasing Ahmadiya's but demonstrably facing up to western intellegensia.

It is not about convincing the convinced, but challenging the unconvinced, that is where the wheat is seperated from the chaff.

(I wish I could find and post that video of Irfan Shah going absolutely bonkers on stage and he's the creme de la creme)

[Major-Screw-Loose]

I've had a little think about this about coming across atheists who deny the existence of Allah. At my work place I met a guy who kind of told me of things like: when he was younger he used to believe in God and that's most likely because he was made to believe so due to his parents or family and as he grew older and now that he's an adult he has moved away from believing in such things because like he says 'where is God' or 'Is God only there to make you feel better or when you need him' etc.

Brothers and sisters, help me on this one:

If an atheist asks to prove the existence of God or says where is God etc, and if I replied to him: first of all you prove to me that you exist and why I think I should believe you exist and are alive and talking and walking. He may say "I am standing right in front of you and you can see me". And if I say "But I can't see you and where are you".  He may reply: "I'm next to you". I may reply: "If you're so sure that you exist - then I'm even more certain my Lord Allah exists too.  His reply may be: "where, where is God, I can't see him, show me or prove it to me".  I could reply: "Ah, well Allah exists and always has and always will and Allah is everywhere and although I can't see him but Allah is there". I could go on further saying: "If you exist, I exist, we both can see and acknowledge each other, and we can see the creation around us that exists, would you not agree there is a Creater who created all of this including me and you?

Bottom line: is debating or discussing these topics in the manner above alright to do or is there a problem, in other words, is it ok to go about asking atheist that "do you exist, prove to me you exist, show me the evidence"... etc?

[AzharDigital]

As salaam alaykum,

I'm Azhar and happen to accidentally :smooooth: browse this thread on brother Burak's difficulty when he was talking to someone who does not believe in Almighty God, ie atheist. So i wanted to provide a little contribution in the dialog:) Insha Allah that may help him and the brother Seat belts on, and everyone.

This is why i registered on this forum:D. First of all i'm just a student of islam, therefore all the answers and questions im going to post..do also your own research:cool:, ie donot depend on it only. Allah has given us mind to think, ponder and do research. Jazaak Allah Khair.

You may comment or post replies (in english if possible..thanks), but please as a true muslim, our example should be Prophet Muhammad (saw) even if we reply to someone who has different idea or opinion:w00t:.

Brother, i will post insha Allah, but to start with i have made a presentation (after some research) on my site peacedigital.wordpress.com. Please check it up and tell me if this helps, and if you have any questions and suggestions. Thanks

my website:

[AzharDigital]

People often ask why we do not see God?

It is similar to a student who enters an examination room and ask:
Why I cannot see the answers on the blackboard?
If you see the answers already, then what is the purpose of the test?

If you do not see God that does not mean He does not exist.
If you does not see force of gravity that does not mean that gravity does not exist.

If you cannot see your brain, that does not mean you do not have a brain..isn't?

If you cannot look at the sun directly,
how can you expect to see the Almighty God, the source of Light?

Let me give another example, if you enter a dark room with just a small lamp
at a corner, how can you expect to see completely what is in the room.
The universe is dark completely, with just 1 lamp (sun), yet you expect to see God?

So life is an examination. We cannot see Allah. Allah told us in the Quran in

_______________________________________________________________________
Surah 6 Al Anaam verse 103-104:

Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle,
the Acquainted.There has come to you enlightenment from your Lord. So whoever
will see does so for [the benefit of] his soul, and whoever is blind [does harm]
against it. And [say], "I am not a guardian over you."
______________________________________________________________________


Surely we will see Allah one day, after the examinations are over. The day we
see the results of our test and patience. Allah told us in the Quran:

_______________________________________________________________________
Surah 75 Al Qiyamah verse 22-25:

[Some] faces, that Day, will be radiant, Looking at their Lord.
And [some] faces, that Day, will be contorted, Expecting that
there will be done to them [something] backbreaking.

______________________________________________________________________

[YaNabi-Chemist]

[quote]Know the Ledge (19.03.2010)

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[quote][b]Name me scholars that are challenging and refuting people such as Richard dawkins? [/quote]

Harun Yahya.

Besides, it's not a good example. Scholars are not scientists.

[Just_Ahsun]

Assalamu alaikum,

I would certainly agree with brother Faraz on his comment. The biggest deficiency in muslims these days are that we don't use our God-given intellect to the max or rather use it in pointless matters. The last time I checked, the hadith was "It is compulsory on every muslim, man and women, to gain knowledge" and not 'every scholar' !!

The scholars have done their part when they gained knowledge in their young age, now it's our turn so it's about the right time to wake up. People get limited by their surrounding and growth, and thus the scholars from back home are unlikely to be the one to deal with the educated society here who question things from a logical percpective. We are very lucky to be born at time when accessing knowledge isn't a problem anymore, even for the sisters alhumdulillah with events and online media catering for their needs.

In short, my dear brothers and sisters, utilize your time at young age and never put a full stop on learning. This is something I learned from a beloved brother in Islam once, and I'm grateful to Allah for keeping me in such company.

[ChistiSahib]

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Burak (17.03.2010)

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Well, he cant think his right just because I cant disproove him. It also made me lost hope in Allah. I used to believe in him and I still do somehow. Sometimes I doubt he exists.

Brother Burak, the fact that you sometimes doubt in Allah, shows that you are a true Beliver in Allah. Because doubts are from Satan , and Satan is giving MUSLIMS doubt so we should go away from religion. Doubts comes only to Muslims like you and me. All sorts of doubts about religion. So whenever you have a doubt say: Wala Haula Wala Quata Illa Billa Hill Aliyil Azwim. This will make Satan run away from you.

Just start your 5 daily prayers, as this will strengthen your Faith in Allah , and nothing will be able to distance you away from Him.

[AzharDigital]

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Burak (17.03.2010)

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Hello brothers and sisters! Im not saying that
I dont believe in Allah but I just lost hope. This Atheist guy keeps coming up
with logical reasons for every miracle in the Quran.

I know his wrong but I cant disproove him. Now I really want to believe in Allah
but at the moment Im half believing in him. I dont want to die as a disbeliever
so please help me by giving me proof Allah exists and I could need help answering
this Atheist.

Salaam again brother you mentioned that the atheist guy is logical.
logical or illogical? :P time will tell insha Allah. Many people have a misconception
that Islam is like other religion where you need to blind belief.

On the contrary, do you know that Allah too is very logical and islam is a rational
religion.:w00t: Read the lives of Ibrahim (as) when he discussed with his idolatrous
father and neighbours. See how Musa (as) discuss with Pharaoh.
See how Muhammad (saw) interaction with Non muslims.

Your argument should be based on truth and in
conformity with Quran and sunnah.All this require patience, perseverance
and effort on your behalf. God help those who help themselves.

Using logic, let Allah answer you ,me and everyone in my next post:cool:.
If I have time i will insha Allah explain it later. Hope it helps you.
Do give feedback.

Do also check my page Why you are here.
You need to download the presentation and read it.
It may help you insha Allah. it wont take much time.

[AzharDigital]

Quran 56:57


We have created you,
so why do you not believe?

Quran 56:58


Have you seen that which you emit?


Quran 56:59


Is it you who creates it,
or are We the Creator?

Quran 56:60



It is We Who have decreed death among you
and We are not helpless either (to bring you back
to life after this)

Quran 56:61



Nor are We (powerless) to change others into the like of you
in your place and make you grow into a form which you do not know.

Quran 56:62



And you have already known the first creation, so will you not remember?


Quran 56:63



And have you seen that [seed] which you sow?

Quran 56:64



Is it you who makes it grow, or are We the grower?

Quran 56:65



If We willed, We could make it [dry] debris,
and you would remain in wonder,

Quran 56:66



[Saying], "Indeed, we are [now] in debt;

Quran 56:67

http://www.everyayah...nText/56_67.gif

Rather, we have been deprived."

Quran 56:68

http://www.everyayah...nText/56_68.gif

And have you seen the water that you drink?


Quran 56:69

http://www.everyayah...nText/56_69.gif

Is it you who brought it down from the clouds,
or is it We who bring it down?

Quran 56:70

http://www.everyayah...nText/56_70.gif

If We willed, We could make it bitter,
so why are you not grateful?

Quran 56:71

http://www.everyayah...nText/56_71.gif

And have you seen the fire that you ignite?

Quran 56:72

http://www.everyayah...nText/56_72.gif

Is it you who produced its tree,
or are We the producer?

Quran 56:73

http://www.everyayah...nText/56_73.gif

We have made it a reminder and provision for the travelers,

Quran 56:74

http://www.everyayah...nText/56_74.gif

So exalt the name of your Lord, the Most Great.


From the Glorious Quran in Surah Waqera (56 The Event) verse 57-74

[Abdul-Mustafa]

Assalam u Alaikum,

Dear brother, read the attached article. Insha ALLAH, it will be of immense help. ALHUMDULILLAH! The proofs of the existence of The Creator are firmly established in Islamic texts.

http://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/ This is one of the best websites on internet related to A'qidah.

Here, you can discuss your queries directly with Sayyidi Shaykh Abu Adam Al-Naruiji (May Allah Almighty protect him).

Do not over-burden your mind by pondering over matters that are absurd, and please avoid the company of such people. Save your energy for something fruitful. Keep in mind that initiating an argument or debate without knowledge is very harmful. And plus, the arguments given by these people are based on false and absurd premises and they collapse after a little thoughtful analysis.

Wa-Salam,

Rashid

P.S. SubhanALLAH, beautiful post (the one above this).

[New-Leaf]

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Know the Ledge (19.03.2010)

(I wish I could find and post that video of Irfan Shah going absolutely bonkers on stage and he's the creme de la creme)

Wow. So much respect for a Sayyid. You must be proud of yourself.

[Know-the-Ledge]

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New Leaf (25.03.2010)

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Know the Ledge (19.03.2010)

(I wish I could find and post that video of Irfan Shah going absolutely bonkers on stage and he's the creme de la creme)

Wow. So much respect for a Sayyid. You must be proud of yourself.

Your emotional blackmail wont work with me, go try it on some other mug. I couldn't careless about the indo-pak's hierarchal blueprint of blackmail and emotional smothering.

I don't espoue to this completely blind, sycophantic boot-licking prevalent in our islam. What's the worst you going to do? hate me?

My judgment is with Allah.