[Alom]

Salaamu Alaikum to all the brothers and sisters who have taken part on this thread thus far.

 

First off I would like to welcome our dear brother Luqman to this forum and congratulate him for taking the bold step in highlighting this very sensitive issue. 

 

Secondly I would like to thank sister Nur for taking the next step and proposing to break down this problem in to smaller ones so we can work our way dealing with one issue at a time.  One important thing that we all must realise is that we are not doing this to prove anything to the world, but we are doing it to make life easier for our fellow Muslims regardless of their colour and their backgrounds.  Some people may label this as a feel of compassion from a revert to another but I disagree, I believe this is the correct path which was ordained for us as a representative of Islam to help one another.

 

I am not going to indulge on the discussion about marriage as I believe the subject has been dealt well by both parties.  I agree with the brothers and sisters who believe caste system should be abolished as it has no base in Islam and only segregates one Muslim from another, and to my limited understanding I don't think such commodities was practise during the golden age of Islam.  However and coming to the comments made by my brothers Faraz and Ledge one has to agree that the period we are leaving in now is no where near the golden age of islam, instead I personally believe this is the dark ages we are facing right now.  Money has taken key roles in our life, and one has to adapt to its situation to survive.  No question about it deen is the most important factor in our life, however saying that one also must understand that money at this period of time is also slowly building its way in our life.  I have witnessed a lot of families going through difficult situation because of lack of money in their lives, some families even broke apart.  Now people can blame this on lack of deen, but I personally diagnose that one needs to keep a firm balance between the both.

 

Anyhow lets move on to something constructive.  I really like the idea of doing an Eid gathering and my acclamation goes to brother Triple M for highlighting it beautifully with details.  It reminded me of deed I use to do when I was residing in London, what we use to do in the week before Christmas was design a gathering for the homeless and we use to feed them by making the food ourselves and we also use to distribute them to near by orphanage.

 

So perhaps brother Luqman can do something like that with his community but for Eid.  We can stay here all night and come up with ideas after ideas but they will be no good unless we put them into action, so brother Luqman why don't you have a talk with your imam and propose the idea of having a gathering in the morning of Eid day so all the brothers can feel the closeness of the Ummah, and later on those who want to go and visit their relatives and friends can go and do so and the remainder of the group can cook up some nice meal and distribute them to the poor, that way you will be also promoting Islam, and if you can try and get the youths involved in it so they can too understand the true spiritual meaning of Eid.

 

At first you might not get too many people excited but don't let that damper your spirit.  Remember when the holy Prophet (pbuh) was introducing Islam to his people, not all of them at first jumped the bandwagon, but none the less the Prophet (pbuh) still carried on promoting Islam and so should you.  The first step is always the hardest but once you have taken it the rest of the path become straight forward, so go ahead and prepare your Eid plan in advance.

 

I leave this post with a story to all our users that their once was a city called Madina.  Many years ago about 1400 years to be precise a group of people migrated from the city of Makkah to Madina to escape prosecution leaving behind them their homes and some their families, and ventured in to an unknown land.  The people of Madina whom had no real relationship with the new comers invited them to their land and to their homes with open arms, sharing with them their wealth, their cloths and their food.

 

1400 years after and coming to this day so much has changed...........yet hope still lives!

[Damishq]

Originally posted by: Sister Nur. Brother MMM... hats of to your wonderful socialising idea. Sounds exciting [IMG][/IMG] Brother Faraz.. forgive me if i came down a bit harsh but i still disagree. I dont have a problem going to a pakistani mosque... never said i did. All I am saying is everyone should make a better attempt at mixing and including everyone and making an effort. We dont really need a 100 half empty mosques, a few full ones with people to welcome each other is much better.

Well said sister Nur Masha'Allah you have made some brilliant points in this thread. JazakAllah Khair to brothers Luqman, Nafs Uz-Zakiyah and Sister Nur for sharing their thoughts and experiences with us and discussing some of the problems that reverts to Islam experience. Last year, one of my white friends became a Muslim, Alhamdulillah Before she became a Muslim, we attended many Islamic talks together and we met and spoke to quite a few Islamic scholars at these events who helped to answer some of her questions (May Allah Ta'ala reward the shayukh abundantly for all their help. Aameen Thumma Aameen) regarding Islam. Alhamdulillah, after reading about Islam, spending time with other Muslims and attending talks etc she decided to take the shahada and we still attend talks as much as we can.

However, as Sister Nur has highlighted, masjids need to be alot more welcoming and help the reverts. When me and my friend went to the masjid together, especially the ones where most of the ladies present were Asian, my friend was stared at alot and the women hardly ever smiled at times and she didn't feel very welcome at times, whereas at some other masjids we went to where there was a mixture of sisters from different cultures such as Somalians, Arabs, Pakistanis and there was less staring and the sisters seemed more welcoming and attempted to talk to my friend and make her feel welcome. I think this is an area that needs to be focused on because there are many non-muslims who are exploring Islam and there are many reverts who go to talks in masjids to learn more about Islam and to meet others who can help them, but if the people in the masjids are not welcoming and not helpful then the non-Muslims exploring Islam and the reverts will begin to feel isolated and not know who to turn to for support. I think that masjids need to start having something in place for reverts so that they can meet other reverts and can learn about Islam and learn things such as Arabic and Salah. Many reverts struggle to find someone who can help them or classes to learn how to pray salah and classes to learn Arabic so that they can read the Qur'an and other Islamic books and therefore I believe this needs to be addressed.

It would be brilliant if masjids could start some sort of programme consisting of different classes for Reverts and advertise these classes through Islamic forums, leaflets and posters in shops and the masjid itself so that news of the classes could also spread by word of mouth Insha'Allah. Classes could include Arabic for beginners. From my experience many classes for beginners (Adults) at masjids require the student to know the arabic alphabet and how to read the joined letters before they begin the class whereas the classes for children do start right from scratch learning each letter and how to read and pronounce it, but no adult would really want to join a child's class. Therefore there needs to be Arabic classes for reverts which start from learning the basics, meaning the alphabet. Additionally, classes include fiqh classes and a salah class teaching reverts how to pray salah and providing handouts of the du'as and targets so that they memorise certain du'as for salah before each class as I think that there aren't alot of masjids that provide this sort of help for reverts. It would also be good to hold dhikr sessions for reverts and perhaps after dhikr, there could be a tea/coffee session where reverts get to meet other reverts, but it would also be good at this point to have other Muslim brothers and sisters at the session to make reverts feel welcome inshaAllah and to help them in any way possible.

These are just some of my ideas and perhaps there are many masjids that already have classes like this in place for reverts, but I have not come across many masjids that seem welcoming to reverts and help them in this way. Please feel free to agree/disagree with my points and voice your opinions and concerns. Furthermore, the idea that brother MMM presented regarding inviting revert brothers and sisters to homes at Eid and other special occasions or having a gathering in a hall sounds excellent masha'Allah. Personally, I believe the home is a better location than in a hall because the home seems like a more relaxed, warm and welcoming environment than a hall.

[Damishq]

Earlier this month at Eid, I invited my friend who reverted to Islam to come and celebrate Eid at my home with my family and she was invited by a few of our other friends too Alhamdulillah to their homes to celebrate Eid and I believe it really does make a difference and makes one feel welcomed. Next Eid, Insha'Allah I will try to invite more people I think the idea is brilliant and a great way for the new Muslims to experience what Muslims do at Eid and to meet other Muslims including the new Muslims and feel welcomed.

I just ask that brothers and sisters put themselves in the shoes of our revert brothers and sisters and imagine that if you were new to Islam and you did not have much support and were not welcomed by other Muslims in the community or were not welcomed in the Masjids, what would you do and how would you feel? Therefore, we need to aim for inclusion and not let reverts feel isolated as they are our brothers and sisters and as Muslims it is our duty to help one another in the best way possible Insha'Allah Ta'ala.

May Allah Ta'ala guide us all and make us better Muslims. Aameen Ya Rabbal Alameen and may Allah Ta'ala bless you sister Nur and your spouse and bless you with a successful marriage filled with love and happiness. May Allah Ta'ala make life easy for you both. Aameen Thumma Aameen! Bed time for me now as I have work in the morning

Ma'assalaamah!

[LuqmanNaq]

Assalaamu alaikum Wa rahmatullahi Wa barakatu,

I would like to first apologize for the tone of my previous posts in response to some other brothers comments. I cannot offer and excuse for my lack of Adab. I would like to ask the Admins to delete both of my replies to Brother Know the Ledge (#10 and #45) and I ask for your forgiveness brother for my behaviour.

===

I intended this discussion to be about more than just the reverts, I believe the problems I have outlined - of Tribalism - effect Asian Muslim youth, non-Asian born Muslims, and the non-Muslims who live in Britain ... I'd just like to highlight the main things that I believe we as a community need to address...

Racism

The problem is rampant. Regarding the subject of marriage, I know of many Asians and non-Asians who have unfortunately been unable to marry a suitor because of their race. Within the Asian community I know that 'mixed' marriages between Guajarati's, Bengalis, and Pakistanis are prevented by parents who disapprove of their children marrying outside of their immediate family's 'origin'. I also know of non-Asians who have been prevented from marrying Asians because their family wouldn't like them to marry someone outside of their race. Just to stress I'm talking about Asians who desire to marry somebody but are being denied the opportunity due to their parents Racism, I'm not talking about being denied due to their job, socio-economic status, or education - I'm talking about Racism which I know is rampant in the Asian Muslim community. I again would just like to stress that the problem of Racism within the Ummah effects both Asians and non-Asians.

Lack of Dawah

The lack of Dawah that has been done in the last 40 yrs is something that frustrates almost all of the reverts that I have spoken to. As we all know Islam holds the answers to all of life's problems both personal and societal - the world is crying out for answers, and we Muslim's have the answer, but we have failed to share it with our neigbouring communites. From observation of the born Muslim community they seem to display no strong desire to bring non-Muslims to Islam. Most - reverts at least - know that in regards to Dawah (via speech and text at least), the Salafis are filling the void left by the Sunnis.

The Prophet (saws) was not only concerned with the well-being and spiritual flourishing of the Ummah, but he was also concerned with how to bring non-Muslims into the fold of Islam, and save them from Jahannam.

Community Isolation

From personal observation and again hearing the complaints of reverts and non-Muslims. It seems that rather than being ambassadors for Islam, the Born Muslim community seem to have created - and are trying to maintain - a cultural 'ghetto' and seem to be making little attempts at community cohesion, and outreach.

The practices (whether intentional or unintentional) of 'imported' Imams, Urdu speaking in Masjids, over emphasis on inter-family marriages, prohibiting children to marry outside their race, immigrants who don't learn English, the 'caste' system mentality, etc, have all served to create a community in Isolation.

I think the attitude and practice of Self-Isolation has come at a severe price... Many Asian Muslim youth are adopting the cultural trends of non-Muslim youth. I believe that if the Asian Muslim community tried (or tries) to build communication and understanding with their surrounding communities perhaps they would have deeper insight into the culture that their youth are adopting, and could take more effective measures to 'reach' them.

===

I believe all of the above are interconnected - I could be wrong? Does anyone agree or disagree with the analysis?

Does anyone have any solutions?

===

I realize that as a revert little of what I can do will have any effect - the mosques it's committees aren't 'made up' of reverts, and non-Asian muslims. Also the Sunni Muslim reverts seem to be 'scattered' geographically, and not in any significant number to do anything effective like open mosques (perhaps it is something we as reverts should aspire to do?), I personally believe that the Salafi reverts are in larger numbers, I know of at least one seemingly revert filled Salafi Mosque in Birmingham.

Anyway... InshaAllah my words have been some benefit to the Ummah, and I beg forgiveness of anyone I have offended. I also thank the Asian Muslims community for building mosques, and bringing to our shores such Ulama like Shaykh Nuh Keller, Shaykh Habib Jifri, Shaykh Yaqoubi Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, etc. Their presence on this land is a blessing to everyone in the Ummah who resides in Britain and JazakAllah for the opportunity to receive sacred knowledge from these blessed Ulama. In spite of what I have wrote above, and my tone throughout this discussion (please forgive me) the Asian Muslim community's presence in this land alone has probably been the reason for the Rahma that is upon Britain today, and I recieved Dawah from an Asian (revert).

JazakAllah Khair for everything you've done.

InshaAllah now that my nafs are (inshaAllah) under control whilst writing this, InshaAllah the tone will come across as constructive criticism - and broader than being just about reverts.

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Sister Ishqu qalbi... masha Allah, May Allah bless your efforts and ameen to all your dua.
Please PM me ur email add i have been meaning to forward something to you.

Brother Luqman...another wonderful post.

Yes you are right there is an issue... i come from an asian family...and the problem is not just amongst muslims...it is a cultural thing indeed.

[Damishq]

Aameen to your du'as too sis! Check your PM sis

[LuqmanNaq]

JazakAllah sister Nur for your kind words. Am wrong about Racism in the Asian Muslim community from your perspective?

Forgot to add this... this Shaykh expresses the point of view I far more eloquently than I ever could...

http://www.faithtube.com/video/AUDIO-Shaykh-Ahmad-BaBikir-Bi

[MMM]

Brother Luqman, we are aware that there is a factor of racism present in our Asian community and I can guarantee you that you will not find it amongst practicing Muslims InshaAllah because they are aware of the true nature of Islam.

Since you have taken the first step of raising an issue of concern, I believe the brothers and sisters will ponder about it and act to counter it InshaAllah.

Most Asians are devout believers in the caste and race ideology so you will have to bear the amount of time it will take to eradicate these beliefs.

JazakAllahu Khayran

[Damishq]

Originally posted by: Muhammad Mobasher Muhammadi

Most Asians are devout believers in the caste and race ideology so you will have to bear the amount of time it will take to eradicate these beliefs.

JazakAllahu Khayran

Alot of Asians are devout believers in the caste sytem and marrying within the same race, but I feel this is more prevalent in the older generations of Asians rather than the youth, perhaps more so in the UK and other Western countries. I think many of the younger generation of Asians, do not mind whether they marry the same caste or not, whether a Mughal, Jat, Chaudhary etc and some do not mind marrying from a different race (although I think alot of the younger Asians still do want to marry within the same race). However, alot of the older generations do believe in marrying from the same caste and I think the Asians do need to be educated on this issue because there are many Asian brothers and sisters out there who find a potential spouse who is pious and practicing yet because they are not of the same caste or race, their parents often say no when RasoolAllah has said in a hadith that when choosing a spouse, religion and piety should be the most important quality that we should seek in a spouse. It would be good if our Sunni Masjids could hold some talks in English and the languages of the Sub Continent to educate Asians that Islam does not say it is compulsory to marry within the same caste or race and if the speakers could provide references from the Qur'an and Hadith this would strengthen the argument Insha'Allah and make our Asian brothers and sisters more aware of this issue Insha'Allah Ta'ala. JazakAllah Khair

Ma'assalaamah

[LuqmanNaq]

JazakAllah Khair for the replies...

Uncle Muhammad Mobasher... sigh I do need patience... like a brother told me today, we are living in the end times and every fitna of every age is here today.

Ishqu Qalbi Ya Habeeb Allah... I wish their was more education and discussion about this too. I don't personally believe that the problem will finish with the next generation they seem to like music and culture of non-asians but I rarely see them mixing with non-Asians (except boys with girls).

I just wanted to pass on this blog article... it is about a broader issue, but he raises the point of the isolationist attitude's contribution to the growth of Salafism...

http://www.blogistan..._salafisms_rise

[Damishq]

Originally posted by: Luqman Watts JazakAllah Khair for the replies...

Uncle Muhammad Mobasher... sigh I do need patience... like a brother told me today, we are living in the end times and every fitna of every age is here today.

Ishqu Qalbi Ya Habeeb Allah... I wish their was more education and discussion about this too. I don't personally believe that the problem will finish with the next generation they seem to like music and culture of non-asians but I rarely see them mixing with non-Asians (except boys with girls).

I just wanted to pass on this blog article... it is about a broader issue, but he raises the point of the isolationist attitude's contribution to the growth of Salafism...

http://www.blogistan..._salafisms_rise

Uncle MMM is right...we all do need patience because for problems like this to be eradicated, it takes time but we have to remember that patience is beautiful...As-Sabirun jameelun and Insha'Allah if we put our effort in and educate others about these issues, we will see the fruits of our hard work inshaAllah. As for the younger generation of Asians, yes many do listen to the music of non-Asians but do not "hang out" with non-Asians. There are Asians, like myself, who do have non-Asian friends, but for those who don't, I believe their upbringing and what they have been taught by their parents may be one of the factors, but also you have to remember that some young Asians may live in a predominantly Asian area and the school, college or university they go to and the course they are enrolled on may be mainly made of Asians and so they have less or none non-Asian friends. So it is important to note these factors and take these into account when considering how to tackle certain problems.

Ma'assalaamah

[LuqmanNaq]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=...vwDuSo&feature=related - Baba Ali on Racism :-)

[Abdurrahman3]

My brother Luqman, assalamu alayku, wa rahmatallahi, wabarekatu,

I feel so much what you are saying, and it hurts me greatly.And i am shocked and saddened to see what has been written in response here. Didthe Ansar ever say to the muhajiroun, “Why did you become a Muslim? Was it sothat you could come and scrounge off me and live in my house?”

 We, the reverts toIslam, who had to fight all the bewilderment and rejection of our nativecommunities and completely overthrow our previous way of life to enter the Deen,Alhamdulillah, and become Muslims, now are faced with this. Just as were theMuhajiroun. Maybe not so extreme as their case, but many of us have had to gothrough similar trials. Many of us have lost or almost stopped contact with ourcommunities as a result of embracing Islam. We have had to dissacociate fromour old friends and even our families who could not accept our new way of life.We did this, it is suggested here, because we were losers anyway and we thoughtwe may pick up a nice rich well bred Asian chick if we “gave Islam a try”.

Is this a joke? If so this is the most diabolical joke Ihave read since the Danish cartoon fiasco. How can anyone accuse us of hypocrisyin such a way? We are Muslims. Muslims like the slave Bilal (Radhi Allahu Anhu)who called the faithful Sahabah (RA) to prayer for our beloved prophet (SAW),even though he was NEGRO and a SLAVE! Did he embrace Islam to get a free leg upin life? Did he suffer the tortures of his master to near the point of death, refusingto renounce Islam “Ahad! Ahad! Ahad!”, so that he could pick up a nice QuraishiArab girl?

If this forum is for those that follow the Sunnah, then Ithink some people posting here need to re-familiarise themselves with theSunnah of our Prophet SAW and his companions RAA before they charge incondemning our brave and sincere brothers with such kinds of heinousaccusations and slanders, which is the very opposite of what our Nabi SAW stoodand strove for though his life and wonderful example to humanity.

We who have embraced Islam have had to do so at our own worldlyexpense, not to gain benefit in the Dunya, and surely if we did so it wouldonly be by the reward of Allah, and he loves not those who’s intention is torun after worldly treasures. We have had to leave behind those circles wheredrinking alcohol or taking drugs was the dominant theme of our social interactionsin society, and we seek to be a part of the Ummah. We don’t expect to be told (indirect contradiction to the very principals of Islamic brotherhood and unity)that we don’t belong because we are not from this tribe or that tribe, and weprobably only did it to try and pick up a chick anyway.

As a white man, who came from the British upper-middle classurbanite culture, I see the same problems rampant in our British Muslimcommunity, and I feel greatly for what you say, dear brother Luqman. Did ourProphet SAW not say “no Arab is superior to the non Arab and no non Arab issuperior to the Arab, it is by imaan alone that Allah distinguishes betweenyou.” Did the Muslims not accept Bilal al Habashi and Salman Farsi as theirbrothers regardless of tribe? And my heart cries out to feel this pain, to seeour Sunni community put to shame by the Wahabis with their openness to allthose who seek to enter the fold of Islam, and to see this backwardness andtribal mentality of our Sunni Ulama. It is driving all these people who seeksalvation in the path of the Ahl al Sunnah away and into the arms of theSalafis. I have felt it too brother. That look of “what is HE doing here?” inthe masjid. People even refuse to return salaams or just ignore, like themasjid was little more than some kind of ethnic social club, and YOU aren’t amember.

Now, I am married to an Ethiopian Muslim and I live in Ethiopia.The community here is quite open to me but initially I have faced some similarproblems, which I have overcome through time. I never faced any such prejudicein Arab countries when I have travelled in Egypt, Syria etc. and people wereoften delighted to receive a Muslim as a guest without regard to race, andwelcome me to the heart of their families. I do fear that if I return to the UKwith a black wife, we may neither of us feel we belong in the Sunni community,if it is dominated by tribalists. I hope and pray many Du’as to The Almightythat the Sunni community can adapt to the times and wake up! Because theSalafist movement is a real and growing threat to our identity as Muslims andif the Sunnis are entrenched in such tribal mentality and love of the Dunya asi have seen, they are going to be completely swamped by Dr Zakir Naik and hisfan club. No tribe owns Islam, not the Arabs, not any South-Asian tribe, notthe black man nor the white man, not the easterner not the westerner. This is auniversal brotherhood of humanity that worships Allah alone and serves him accordingto the Sunnah of His last Prophet, Musatafa, Peace and Blessings be Upon Him,and anybody who forgets that or opposes it has lost the true path.

Wa Allahu Aalim.

[Fekay]

@ Bro Abdurrahman3, from only reading the first afew replys and just the top half of your post, i think you may have picked up the wrong idea regarding asian families!

When it come to asian families, most of them don't even marry outside their own family circles, even to other asians! So that can't be racism!

It's just culture, but if your rich and a doctor, then culture/race doesn't matter. :)

[Brother_MGS]

FeKay, on 14 April 2011 - 02:25 AM, said:

<font size="3"><span style="font-family: Courier New;">@ Bro Abdurrahman3, from only reading the first afew replys and just the top half of your post, i think you may have picked up the wrong idea regarding asian families!</span><br style="font-family: Courier New;"><br style="font-family: Courier New;"><span style="font-family: Courier New;">When it come to asian families, most of them don't even marry outside their own family circles, even to other asians! So that can't be racism!</span><br style="font-family: Courier New;"><br style="font-family: Courier New;"><span style="font-family: Courier New;">It's just culture, but if your rich and a doctor, then culture/race doesn't matter. </span></font>

They are what you call Asian Gypsys who value family ties and family honour more than anything!
Im sure we all know many people who have had thier marriages arranged withhin the family.
Kids for centuries have been in my opinion sacrificed for the name and honour of a family.

[IslamSister22]

There is a lot of racism especially between Pakistanis and bangali's!

[Ashiq--e--Rasool]

warea, on 17 October 2008 - 12:30 PM, said:

<begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Luqman Watts</b></i><BR><BR>An important problem that the scholars have to tackle is the practice of caste system by some muslim communities in india. <BR><BR>

Cast system in Indian Muslims? First time Iam hearing this. I know the Hindu Cast system but never saw any Indian Muslim practicing cast system. Can you give an example of the community plz?

And Brother regarding your concern, when it comes to Marriage Asian muslims prefer to marry someone from same background as theirs to eliminate Cultural differences, like food ,clothing, language etc.

I dont see any problem marrying outside our Ethnic background as the binding force among muslims is our Religion, unfortunately we are not practicing it as we should and hence indulged in minute differences.