[LuqmanNaq]

On this topic, and the emotions it's stirred I overlooked something I should have done immediately. Sister Nur... May Allah (Swt) bless you with a happy marriage, pious children, and his (Swt) love and mercy here and hereafter. You have done something amazing, it warmed my heart to read it...

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Originally posted by: Luqman Watts

On this topic, and the emotions it's stirred I overlooked something I should have done immediately.

Sister Nur...
May Allah (Swt) bless you with a happy marriage, pious children, and his (Swt) love and mercy here and hereafter. You have done something amazing, it warmed my heart to read it...

Ameen and you too akhi. Your posts really touched me! may Allah always keep you on al haqq, and reward all your efforts and dont worry... we pick this deen for the akhirah... in the end how the people treat us is their doing and they are answerable to Allah. Be strong, Allah loves you.

My duas are with you and your family insha Allah.
Please keep me and my spouse in yours.

[LuqmanNaq]

Dear Know the Ledge, Good jobs come from good attitudes and a person's wealth of charachter can be judged from the job they have. Honestly, some of the worst human being I've met personally in my life have had 'good jobs' according to society. The widespread crimes of corporations and their management, who manipulate and exploit people, and the environment, for material gain is something that a documentary by the name of The corporation (a little dated but still good) can show you is rampant. Honestly a person job is no indication of their character, or attitude, the end justifies the means according to many people it seems I've personally known in the business world. It isn't the salary earning potential that I was pertaining to, but the ancillary traits that are manifested in someone who is succesful in a worldy sense, these are skills which can be transferred laterally to deen. If that is you reason that Alhamdulillah. However have you thought of not judging their character based on their Job, and instead talking to them an examining their character and investigating what brought them to their current point in life. Perhaps they are now in a 'low' job because they were in a well paid 'good' job that was Haraam? Secondly, you're taking my point about reverts coming to islam when they have failed at everything and misconstruing it. Many reverts come to islam when they're at their lowest point, they have no family, they have no self worth and they have no self esteem, that is a window of mercy. Honeslty you shouldn't generalize. As a revert and speaking to many reverts I've known they come from a variety of backgrounds and their Journey to Islam is always unique to hear... Watch Youtube sometime... 2 Reverts I know reverted whilst being a Marine biologist in Saudi Arabis, and a professional dancer in London. Talk to reverts hear their story. Abdal Hakim Murad doesn't fit your profile, nor does Shaykh Nuh Keller, nor Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. Nor do various scientists that have reverted (check out youtube). All the ohter points made by Nafs Zakiyah are redundant, taking negatory aspects of the community and blowing them up proves nothing but some people (many people?) are like that, but this allusion that ALL of us are like that is prreposterous! please forgive me for being direct, but your posts are the kind of attitude that continues the community isolation. Honestly the next time you go into your mosque have a look at how many non-Asians are there, then go to your town centre and have a look how man Asians are their, you will see the problem InshaAllah. In 40 years little Dawah and community cohesion has been achieved, I know that is not down to Islam, but down the muslims. The Salafis even with their corrupt doctrine still are able to be more successful in Dawah than the Asian Muslim community by far, if you believe otherwise you are wrong and I invite you to have brief chat with some Salafis, or stand outside their mosque and watch the various races that go in.

[LuqmanNaq]

Dear Sister Nur, we pick this deen for the akhirah... in the end how the people treat us is their doing and they are answerable to Allah. Be strong, Allah loves you. JazakAllah... you know I was simply going to take the advice of the Imam and focus on deen and leave this topic. I checked and saw people replying. The stories from reverts, and the frustration came back... sigh... You are right, I'm in this deen for Allah, regardless of what happens.

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Originally posted by: Luqman Watts

Dear Sister Nur,

we pick this deen for the akhirah... in the end how the people treat us is their doing and they are answerable to Allah. Be strong, Allah loves you.

JazakAllah... you know I was simply going to take the advice of the Imam and focus on deen and leave this topic. I checked and saw people replying. The stories from reverts, and the frustration came back... sigh... You are right, I'm in this deen for Allah, regardless of what happens.

May Allah bless you

[LuqmanNaq]

Perhaps we should move away from focusing soley on the marriage issue and talking about how to end the overall community isolationist attitudes and practices? Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi was sallam) said, "A woman is normally sought as a wife for her wealth, beauty, nobility, or religiousness (adherence to Islam), but choose a religious woman and you will prosper. " (Muslim) "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. You should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a loser. "(Bukhari) And he said, "The whole world is a provision, and the best object of benefit of the world is the pious woman. " (Muslim) The same holds true when looking for a husband, as the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alayhi was sallam) said, "When someone with whose religion and character you are satisfied asks to marry your daughter, comply with his request. If you do not do so, there will be corruption and great evil on earth. " (Tirmidhi)

[Qadri-Jilani]

Originally posted by: Luqman Watts

Perhaps we should move away from focusing soley on the marriage issue and talking about how to end the overall community isolationist attitudes and practices?


I agree because with marriage it is not unreasonable for someone to prefer someone from the same cultural background as ethnic background is included when factors of compatibility are considered for marriage; there is no surprise or harm in seeing Arabs marrying Arabs, Africans marrying Africans, Bangladeshis marrying Bangladeshis, Pakistanis marrying Pakistanis and so on. What we need to focus on is general issues of isolation vs conhesion in our Muslim communities.

[Just_Ahsun]

Assalamu Alaikum brothers and sisters,

Maybe its hard for us to grasp the problems and feelings of reverts, but as our Beloved described the ummah as one body; pain in one part is felt in others. An optimistic approach to such situations does sometimes lead to a contentment since there are people in worst situations than us but sometimes it just gets out of hand when emotions just burst out.

A question I would like to put forth,just as you need investment for business what is the biggest investment to a relationship (can be taken in general sense)? Is it money? Is it knowledge? Is it anything to do with being brought in a good family background? Is it character and morals? Because this investment holds the key to successful relationship but yet few understand it. There loosing it to acquire things which are just secondary, something which may or may not strengthen a bond but not yet complete it because it will still remain fragile. Just a thought to ponder upon, I would answer the riddle soon trying to provide examples as well InshAllah.

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Okay...moving away from marriage,
let me take this opportunity to highlight a problem almost ALL reverts have complained about:

EID: when eid day comes, usually people are all busy with their families, and many reverts feel isolated and left out and have no one to celebrate with. After the eid salat, they don't have anywhere to go...

How can we tackle this?

(it's understandable sometimes people dont want strangers in their homes mixing with their wives/husband/children etc... but then how can we solve this issue to exclusion?)

I find the wahabbis do it very well...in the morning they have a brothers-only, sisters-only open house and in the evenign they spend it with family, but i have not seen such initiatives from our sunni populations.

[YaNabi-Chemist]

why dont you reverts get together and make a mosque of your own?

there should be enough of you now to be able to do this. This will actually be great for the ummah, as we will have our first mosque built and run by indigenous britains!

think about it!

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Originally posted by: Faraz Hassan

why dont you reverts get together and make a mosque of your own?there should be enough of you now to be able to do this. This will actually be great for the ummah, as we will have our first mosque built and run by indigenous britains!think about it!

and what about those in sparse areas with only one or two reverts?

not everyone lives in huge populated areas...

and not everyone is from britain!

And make a new reverts-mosque.... whats happening to you people? you seem to be sucked into the british divide and rule system. You seem to want to segregate us even more.

But then I'm not even suprised at what you come out with!!!

[MMM]

I understand that reverts are left out. The Asian Muslims have huge families and I believe they never thought about it this way.

How about creating a special forum for (non)isolated members of the Muslim society online and spread the word?

People can decide and manage it. Everyone should be welcomed but the focus should be on the isolated members of our Muslim society, they should feel comfortable - too much attention can make them uncomfortable too, I suppose.

Segregate the Muslims according to the location and they can gather at someone's residence or even book a small hall if they are willing to contribute financially (not recommended though, just a suggestion). I will prefer a home, the atmosphere is homely, informal to an extent and comfortable. The aspect of any sense of formality (apart from a good moral behaviour) should be excluded.

Volunteers will be required. Especially women hosts who will have to clean up the place later (and yes! Men too!) and expect children running around the place, so expect to lose a few assets like decoration pieces, marks on walls, even stained carpets and your garbage full of diapers (lol), etc. I am not joking here. I have an experience of more than two decades of weekly hosting (except Ramadan and vacations) so I understand all the issues. People who think they really love their homes shouldn't host. After reading these, most might end up arranging a hall I suppose which I donot encourage.

Men and women get different rooms or even two corners of a room if they are comfortable with it, with or without a partition if not enough space is available.

The host should be someone who completely understands that there can be a possible conflict of characters and should be bold enough to control such a gathering.

I am absolutely loving the idea uptil now.

Not many might like the following idea because they have an independant mindset. I am speaking in terms of Eidi - giving money to younger ones at Eid, including Milad-un-Nabi and Al-Isra Wal Mi'raj. If people are willing to go for it, they should discuss about this custom. Elders or middle-aged people can exchange gifts as it is a Sunnah and spreads love.

Well, well, loads of ideas...now, I wish I lived in the UK for it. The best part about it is that you actually feel you are contributing to the society or more like Allah Azzawajal Has Blessed you with this service. You will thank Allah Azzawajal when you are able to put a smile on the face of strangers InshaAllah.

Anyhow, I think an effort will be required from the volunteers who wish to set it up InshaAllah.

Lastly, I think it will be best if there is only a small number of people at a place 10-20 in both men and women so that everyone is addressed to and is attended or some might feel left-out. They can introduce themselves individually or one-by-one.

Such gatherings will open doors to tackle all types of social issues such as marriage, etc. Married brothers and sisters can spread the word of the individuals who are willing to get married and interested members can meet.

Comments and criticism please!

JazakAllahu Khayran

[YaNabi-Chemist]

Sister Nur!

You have taken this the wrong way, you  obviously have problems going to mosques run by people from different cultures.

Now when somebody suggests that you should try an make a mosque run by reverts, you complain once again!

I'm out.

[MMM]

Brothers and sisters, please reply with the perspective of uniting the Muslim community, not segregating it, or even isolating others!

Now, who is actually willing to contribute practically?

[YaNabi-Chemist]

I fail to see how reverts setting up a mosque is aiding in segregation and division!

You wouldn't say that if pakistanis who now live in Malasia built a mosque.

I argue that this will be good for that country, as for the first time we will have Mosques built by people who have not emigrated here. it will demonstrate Thta Islam is here, and is here to stay.

If we have this mentality, there is an even stronger case against the madhabs for dividing the Ummah. Anybody here care to show me otherwise?

[MMM]

You cannot eradicate Racism/tribalism or encourage socialising and building unity by building Mosques. There are other various factors that come before it, like building it?

The importance should be given to the factor of socialising, without including any financial aspects.

We accept that reverts may be financially and socially unstable, yet we expect them to build a Mosque!

Anyway, I am not here to debate. I am willing to contribute productively InshaAllah.

JazakAllahu Khayran

[Know-the-Ledge]

Why do reverts act like such a touchy bunch? I don't owe anybody anything! 

Everything I said has been refuted with extreme examples.

If I said that the average number of legs of people in Britain = less than 2, would that be accepted? Even though there is irrefutable proof that, that is the is case?  No, it is intellectual deceit, to use individual examples when you know full well that the general picture is totally different to your own personal experiences.

IF you are a revert and you are married, then you have a family, so no complaints. If not, then make yourself eligible for marriage.


Salafis in my city aren't doing anything, how can you say i'm wrong when my expeirences corroborate my opinion. I'm not from that cesspit which is London, things may be different there, quite possibly, the salafis that run those institutes are reverts there themselves, so they have a special attention towards them and their needs.

Rather than asking what's being done for you, ask, what are you doing for the community? Reverts and others.

I can feel the reverts isolating themsevles in this thread and feel their camaraderie. It's human nature!

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Brother MMM... hats of to your wonderful socialising idea. Sounds exciting

Brother Faraz.. forgive me if i came down a bit harsh but i still disagree. I dont have a problem going to a pakistani mosque... never said i did. All I am saying is everyone should make a better attempt at mixing and including everyone and making an effort.

We dont really need a 100 half empty mosques, a few full ones with people to welcome each other is much better.

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

KTL... im not just banging on about london...

i've lived in glasgow, newcastle and been to many other places.

I have to say rochdale does a fantastic job when it comes to welcoming people...masha Allah.

Other, sometimes not so well.

Why cant we just accept that reverts do feel like this from time to time, and instead of going defensive, why dont you just say: ok next year i will make the effort on eid to invite a revert to come with me to the eid prayer?Maybe even accept his invitation once in a while.

Is it really that hard!?

[zahir-b]

salams all,

takbeer and adhaan (azan - for all you WELL EDUCATED people from the urdu/hindi/punjabi speaking sub continent which is india and pakistan) will be heard from domes of the vatican very soon.... inshallah.... muslims specially the ones - sorry  "the god' chosen few" who' fathers are from the above mentioned continent and seem to have a  monopoly on islam,  should try to look from "outside of the box" instead of "from the inside" .....remember everyone of us is a representative of the prophet (saw)  but sometimes from our own ego we forget what the prophet (saw) represented..... , remember one day we are all going to meet our master, and i pray the one closest to him that day will be the one who is bblliinndd!!!!! if ive offended anyone, take a look at yourself if you find no faults then please forgive me, takecare, spread love, and live life to the fuuullllll!!!!!!!