Racism/Tribalism in the Ummah Tribalism in the Ummah
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:32 AM (#41)
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:44 AM (#42)
On this topic, and the emotions it's stirred I overlooked something I should have done immediately.
May Allah (Swt) bless you with a happy marriage, pious children, and his (Swt) love and mercy here and hereafter. You have done something amazing, it warmed my heart to read it...
Ameen and you too akhi. Your posts really touched me! may Allah always keep you on al haqq, and reward all your efforts and dont worry... we pick this deen for the akhirah... in the end how the people treat us is their doing and they are answerable to Allah. Be strong, Allah loves you.
My duas are with you and your family insha Allah.
Please keep me and my spouse in yours.
Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:03 AM (#43)
Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:07 AM (#44)
Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:11 AM (#45)
Dear Sister Nur,
JazakAllah... you know I was simply going to take the advice of the Imam and focus on deen and leave this topic. I checked and saw people replying. The stories from reverts, and the frustration came back... sigh... You are right, I'm in this deen for Allah, regardless of what happens.
May Allah bless you
Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:15 AM (#46)
Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:48 AM (#47)
Perhaps we should move away from focusing soley on the marriage issue and talking about how to end the overall community isolationist attitudes and practices?
I agree because with marriage it is not unreasonable for someone to prefer someone from the same cultural background as ethnic background is included when factors of compatibility are considered for marriage; there is no surprise or harm in seeing Arabs marrying Arabs, Africans marrying Africans, Bangladeshis marrying Bangladeshis, Pakistanis marrying Pakistanis and so on. What we need to focus on is general issues of isolation vs conhesion in our Muslim communities.
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:58 AM (#48)
Maybe its hard for us to grasp the problems and feelings of reverts, but as our Beloved described the ummah as one body; pain in one part is felt in others. An optimistic approach to such situations does sometimes lead to a contentment since there are people in worst situations than us but sometimes it just gets out of hand when emotions just burst out.
A question I would like to put forth,just as you need investment for business what is the biggest investment to a relationship (can be taken in general sense)? Is it money? Is it knowledge? Is it anything to do with being brought in a good family background? Is it character and morals? Because this investment holds the key to successful relationship but yet few understand it. There loosing it to acquire things which are just secondary, something which may or may not strengthen a bond but not yet complete it because it will still remain fragile. Just a thought to ponder upon, I would answer the riddle soon trying to provide examples as well InshAllah.
- Hafiz al-Shirazi
Posted 20 October 2008 - 01:31 PM (#49)
let me take this opportunity to highlight a problem almost ALL reverts have complained about:
EID: when eid day comes, usually people are all busy with their families, and many reverts feel isolated and left out and have no one to celebrate with. After the eid salat, they don't have anywhere to go...
How can we tackle this?
(it's understandable sometimes people dont want strangers in their homes mixing with their wives/husband/children etc... but then how can we solve this issue to exclusion?)
I find the wahabbis do it very well...in the morning they have a brothers-only, sisters-only open house and in the evenign they spend it with family, but i have not seen such initiatives from our sunni populations.
Posted 20 October 2008 - 01:41 PM (#50)
there should be enough of you now to be able to do this. This will actually be great for the ummah, as we will have our first mosque built and run by indigenous britains!
think about it!
Confidentiality will be maintained.
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:32 PM (#51)
why dont you reverts get together and make a mosque of your own?there should be enough of you now to be able to do this. This will actually be great for the ummah, as we will have our first mosque built and run by indigenous britains!think about it!
and what about those in sparse areas with only one or two reverts?
not everyone lives in huge populated areas...
and not everyone is from britain!
And make a new reverts-mosque.... whats happening to you people? you seem to be sucked into the british divide and rule system. You seem to want to segregate us even more.
But then I'm not even suprised at what you come out with!!!
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:33 PM (#52)
How about creating a special forum for (non)isolated members of the Muslim society online and spread the word?
People can decide and manage it. Everyone should be welcomed but the focus should be on the isolated members of our Muslim society, they should feel comfortable - too much attention can make them uncomfortable too, I suppose.
Segregate the Muslims according to the location and they can gather at someone's residence or even book a small hall if they are willing to contribute financially (not recommended though, just a suggestion). I will prefer a home, the atmosphere is homely, informal to an extent and comfortable. The aspect of any sense of formality (apart from a good moral behaviour) should be excluded.
Volunteers will be required. Especially women hosts who will have to clean up the place later (and yes! Men too!) and expect children running around the place, so expect to lose a few assets like decoration pieces, marks on walls, even stained carpets and your garbage full of diapers (lol), etc. I am not joking here. I have an experience of more than two decades of weekly hosting (except Ramadan and vacations) so I understand all the issues. People who think they really love their homes shouldn't host. After reading these, most might end up arranging a hall I suppose which I donot encourage.
Men and women get different rooms or even two corners of a room if they are comfortable with it, with or without a partition if not enough space is available.
The host should be someone who completely understands that there can be a possible conflict of characters and should be bold enough to control such a gathering.
I am absolutely loving the idea uptil now.
Not many might like the following idea because they have an independant mindset. I am speaking in terms of Eidi - giving money to younger ones at Eid, including Milad-un-Nabi and Al-Isra Wal Mi'raj. If people are willing to go for it, they should discuss about this custom. Elders or middle-aged people can exchange gifts as it is a Sunnah and spreads love.
Well, well, loads of ideas...now, I wish I lived in the UK for it. The best part about it is that you actually feel you are contributing to the society or more like Allah Azzawajal Has Blessed you with this service. You will thank Allah Azzawajal when you are able to put a smile on the face of strangers InshaAllah.
Anyhow, I think an effort will be required from the volunteers who wish to set it up InshaAllah.
Lastly, I think it will be best if there is only a small number of people at a place 10-20 in both men and women so that everyone is addressed to and is attended or some might feel left-out. They can introduce themselves individually or one-by-one.
Such gatherings will open doors to tackle all types of social issues such as marriage, etc. Married brothers and sisters can spread the word of the individuals who are willing to get married and interested members can meet.
Comments and criticism please!
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:35 PM (#53)
You have taken this the wrong way, you obviously have problems going to mosques run by people from different cultures.
Now when somebody suggests that you should try an make a mosque run by reverts, you complain once again!
Confidentiality will be maintained.
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:42 PM (#54)
Now, who is actually willing to contribute practically?
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:49 PM (#55)
You wouldn't say that if pakistanis who now live in Malasia built a mosque.
I argue that this will be good for that country, as for the first time we will have Mosques built by people who have not emigrated here. it will demonstrate Thta Islam is here, and is here to stay.
If we have this mentality, there is an even stronger case against the madhabs for dividing the Ummah. Anybody here care to show me otherwise?
Confidentiality will be maintained.
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:56 PM (#56)
The importance should be given to the factor of socialising, without including any financial aspects.
We accept that reverts may be financially and socially unstable, yet we expect them to build a Mosque!
Anyway, I am not here to debate. I am willing to contribute productively InshaAllah.
Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:54 PM (#57)
Everything I said has been refuted with extreme examples.
If I said that the average number of legs of people in Britain = less than 2, would that be accepted? Even though there is irrefutable proof that, that is the is case? No, it is intellectual deceit, to use individual examples when you know full well that the general picture is totally different to your own personal experiences.
IF you are a revert and you are married, then you have a family, so no complaints. If not, then make yourself eligible for marriage.
Salafis in my city aren't doing anything, how can you say i'm wrong when my expeirences corroborate my opinion. I'm not from that cesspit which is London, things may be different there, quite possibly, the salafis that run those institutes are reverts there themselves, so they have a special attention towards them and their needs.
Rather than asking what's being done for you, ask, what are you doing for the community? Reverts and others.
I can feel the reverts isolating themsevles in this thread and feel their camaraderie. It's human nature!
Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:39 PM (#58)
Brother Faraz.. forgive me if i came down a bit harsh but i still disagree. I dont have a problem going to a pakistani mosque... never said i did. All I am saying is everyone should make a better attempt at mixing and including everyone and making an effort.
We dont really need a 100 half empty mosques, a few full ones with people to welcome each other is much better.
Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:43 PM (#59)
i've lived in glasgow, newcastle and been to many other places.
I have to say rochdale does a fantastic job when it comes to welcoming people...masha Allah.
Other, sometimes not so well.
Why cant we just accept that reverts do feel like this from time to time, and instead of going defensive, why dont you just say: ok next year i will make the effort on eid to invite a revert to come with me to the eid prayer?Maybe even accept his invitation once in a while.
Is it really that hard!?
Posted 20 October 2008 - 07:10 PM (#60)
takbeer and adhaan (azan - for all you WELL EDUCATED people from the urdu/hindi/punjabi speaking sub continent which is india and pakistan) will be heard from domes of the vatican very soon.... inshallah.... muslims specially the ones - sorry "the god' chosen few" who' fathers are from the above mentioned continent and seem to have a monopoly on islam, should try to look from "outside of the box" instead of "from the inside" .....remember everyone of us is a representative of the prophet (saw) but sometimes from our own ego we forget what the prophet (saw) represented..... , remember one day we are all going to meet our master, and i pray the one closest to him that day will be the one who is bblliinndd!!!!! if ive offended anyone, take a look at yourself if you find no faults then please forgive me, takecare, spread love, and live life to the fuuullllll!!!!!!!