[Nafs-Zakiyah]

Originally posted by: Faraz Hassan

why dont you wipe the streets?I disagree with this notion that your job is totally unimportant, and i do not believe for one second that you will be happy if your daughter marrried a street cleaner.Yes - deen plays an integral role, however you also need to make sure that the husband can provide for the family.

Well, if a person had some taqwa and trust in Allah, maybe they wouldn't be so attached to worldly wealth. It only goes to prove my point. And a street cleaner can feed and clothe a family. And with every new child there is more rizq as per the saying of Habib al-Atham (sallAllahu alayhi wa aalihi wassalam).

wassalam

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Just to re-iterate...

highway cleaners (according to employers page) earn between 11-16K a year...

a friend of mine just joined a accoutning firm after graduating with a 2.1 and she got paid 10K as the average salary.... thats even less than a street cleaner...

so what was that about providing for family and importance of job?

[YaNabi-Chemist]

11-16k a year is Low. So my point still stands.

Many of you here clearly live in a nice and fluffy fairytale where dear prance about the meadows; where fairies kiss you goodnight, and little gnomes leave pots of gold every time you leave your cottage to go clean the streets.

In the real world however, people work to live. We need money, we want jobs with lots of money! We want to be able to provide for our families! There is nothing wrong with that, and this does not mean that you are a "lover of dunyah".

I honestly doubt that you will be happy if your daughter married somebody on such a low income. It is actually a condition for a husband to be able to provide for his wife and Kids. That is my point.

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Sidi, my point is not there is anything wrong with wanting to provide for your family.

But its not necessary that poorer people are not happy.

I'll give u my own example: was proposed to by 2 individuals.
 
One was a chemical engineer, very very wealthy... good family, large houses, multiple cars, muslim born, etc etc

One was a poor revert, only jobs he can take is low skilled labour... but he loves the ahlul bayt... and puts his deen before everything...

which one did i choose?

Take your guess.

[Nafs-Zakiyah]

Bismillah,

It's not about living in a fairytale, but about not beeing greedy. Enough food to survive, clothes on your back and a simple roof over your head is enough. Everything other than that is excess. Now there is nothing wrong in having it per se, rather it's what you do with it. But to see this as something needed, something which we can't live a good life without, that's totally batil, and no doubt it is loving the dunya and even distrust in Allah.

People work to live? Well eat to live, don't live to eat!

wassalam

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

See it is also about whether one is willing to work hard and have ambition....

who is better in your eyes... the lazy heir who inherits the 20million fortune of his dads hard wok while he doesnt do a days work,

or the guy who works 12 hours a day to build his own small business out if integrity?

[Just_Ahsun]

Assalamu Alaikum everyone, MashAllah good replies on this post by brother and sisters.

@sister nur and brother faraz, I believe you both have a fair point but if you try putting yourself in each others shoes it would make it much more clearer to understand each other. Our ideas develop by how we have seen the life and happiness is how we think and not who or what we are.

As for myself, I do like a simple mode of life but I won't be able to deny the needs of my family later on in life. Its more practical not to assume that my family would be happy just because the daily necessities are being fulfilled. This doesn't mean i don't trust Allah Azzawajal but having a bit of lavish just so your family could be pleased looks fine by me as brother Faraz has been saying it. And with my experiences I believe when your nurture them with Islam (peace and contentment) they would themselves choose to adopt the mode of life of the Beloved and that would be true success rather than putting your way down their throat.

@brother luqman, I hope your in much better position now than before. What I can suggest you is a good way to mingle with the elders of pakistani origin is to learn some simple greetings in urdu so you can greet them in the similar way and that would definitely bring a smile on their face which would be a sadaqah for you. If their not eager to mingle, you shouldn't back off either.

I hope this helps JazakAllah khairan for your insights brother and sisters.

[Nafs-Zakiyah]

Bismillah
Assalamu Alaykum,

Sag-e-Attar

The thing that you are missing is that Faraz isn't saying that having a bit of excess is acceptable, and we all agreed with this depending on how you spend that money. But one can not justify that two persons are stopped from getting married because the male is not excessively rich. Not if they sincerely believe it's fine with them. But other people intervene, and often because of how people will look at them, not because they think that their daughter will starve to death. So it is still very un-Islamic in itself. Obviously no one said that one should force a simple lifestyle on a woman. So what you wrote wasn't really relevant per se.

wassalam

[Just_Ahsun]

Walaikum Assalam

I think you have misunderstood what brother faraz meant as i havent seen him mentioning anywhere you have to be excessively rich but just a mere salary of 11-16k average a year is low because there would be left little or no savings in the end (I don't think this means a lack of tawakul; you put the trust first and than try your bits and bites). I do agree that in real world, people do look for excessive rich families to marry to but brother faraz didn't mean the above unless he confirms that.

But I believe its where your content lies in, thats the most important factor to determine your life and not what so and so thinks. But well in practical its easy to say but hard to achieve since people do intervene!!! The best thing for us is to make sure nothing as such happens in our family and than unite to make sure a nation can be changed. But can we really play our part without giving up? Thats where the problem lies. JazakAllah khairan for listening

[LuqmanNaq]

Assalaamu alaikum brother Faraz, I assure you I would choose a person of Taqwa over someone rich to marry my (inshaAllah) daughter any day. I believe having a good, fulfilling, relationship with Allah (swt) is far, far, more important than having a good bank balance. I honestly doubt that you will be happy if your daughter married somebody on such a low income. It is actually a condition for a husband to be able to provide for his wife and Kids. That is my point. I spent a life changing 2 months in Malaysia last year, the last month I lived with someone who studied for 4 years in an Islamic University (Tasawwuf based), and is a martial arts instructor of repute. He was and is extremely poor, dedicating most of his time and energy to teaching Islam (in an age where fitna and deviant paths are well financed and popularized), and teaching a martial art called Silat as a way of Dawah and to reach muslims who are in 'the bad life'. He has a wife and 4 children, he struggles to provide for his family, and times are hard but he is committed and sincere to trying to serve Deen. If he came as a young man with nothing but his love for Islam, his sincerity and kind heart - and asked for any muslim's daughters hand in marriage, they are privileged. 11-16k a year is Low. So my point still stands. Many of you here clearly live in a nice and fluffy fairytale where dear prance about the meadows; where fairies kiss you goodnight, and little gnomes leave pots of gold every time you leave your cottage to go clean the streets. It is not we are delusion we just realize that money meant nothing to the Prophet (SAW), the Sahaba (who were of extremely humble material means) and the Awliya Allah - we simply don't believe it should be one of the main reasons for choosing a spouse. Believe me I've grown up as a poor child in London however honestly looking back, I never noticed or was bothered by it, because of my mother's deep love and compassion for me. One thing again coming from a non-muslim background seems to be strange is, often in the social circle I ran in (which weren't too dodgy ;-) money or job wasn't a concern when looking for a partner, character was. Bizzare - they are less materialistic than some muslims (that wasn't directed towards you brother Faraz). Honestly I think some Muslims need to take a read again of Seerah and the lives of the Sahaba - and see their deep Taqwa and humble means. Surely we want our daughters to have the riches of the hereafter?

[LuqmanNaq]

From As Shifa by Qadi 'Iyad; 11) One of the signs of perfect love is that the one who aspires to it does without in this world and prefers poverty. The Prophet said to Abu Sa'id al-Khudri, "Poverty for those among you who love me comes quicker than a flood from the top of the mountain to the bottom." (at-Tirmidhi) In a hadith from 'Abdullah b. Mughaffal, a man said to the Prophet, "O Messenger of Allah, I love you." He said, "Take care what you say!" He said, "By Allah, I love you" three times. He said, "If you love me, then prepare for poverty quickly." There is a similar hadith from Abu Sa'id al-Khudri.

[Know-the-Ledge]

You have misunderstood my point about street cleaners.

The issue is not of how much they earn, but what kind of a background leads to these type of jobs.  Whereas people with well paid jobs, tend to have, education, good attitude, will and drive, fortitude etc

Good jobs come from good attitudes and a person's wealth of charachter can be judged from the job they have. I know a guy who sweeps a Sainsburys supermarket, the guys a farily good muslim, but intellectually, he is a complete and utter joke.  he tries to preach to people, but they laugh at him, because he talks complete disconcerted rubbish! 

It isn't the salary earning potential that I was pertaining to, but the ancillary traits that are manifested in someone who is succesful in a worldy sense, these are skills which can be transferred laterally to deen. Like resilience for example. The guy who does a 5 year pharmacy degree, must demonstrate extreme dedication, this can be transfered to learning deen.

The fact that you allude to wealth and talk about 'the dusgusting dunya', is your own narrow understanding. The Prophet (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) was a succesful merchant, so there's nothing wrong with dunya, as long as it doesan't absorb you.

Secondly, you're taking my point about reverts coming to islam when they have failed at everything and misconstruing it.  Many reverts come to islam when they're at their lowest point, they have no family, they have no self worth and they have no self esteem, that is a window of mercy.

Like when people who fall ill with cancer and then begin to look for answers to life. i don't believe for one second that reverts come to islam when the 'stock market' is riding high in their lives. This is anecdotally speaking.


Finally, Asians listen to their mothers and fathers in order to maintain their family bonds. This isn't 'running to mummy' as someone put it.  The fact is, if you think that seeking our parents counsel and abrogating our own happiness to safeguard their happiness is a churlish act, then that's you opinion and you're entitled to it.

Sister Nur, people with accountancy degrees are not accountants. The term 'accountant' is a reference to people qualifed either ACCA or ACA or CIMA, the chartered associations are lobbying the governement to trademark this term and make it unlawful to be used by people not members of the above mentioned chartered associations. Using this for anyone not registered professionaly is fallacious.
All the ohter points made by Nafs Zakiyah are redundant, taking negatory aspects of the community and blowing them up proves nothing but some people (many people?) are like that, but this allusion that ALL of us are like that is prreposterous!


(Sorry about spelling, i've done this post in haste! )

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

KTL:

i don't believe for one second that reverts come to islam when the 'stock market' is riding high in their lives. This is anecdotally speaking.


I became a muslim when i was top of my class, young, accomplished, from a fairly wealthy background, could get pretty much anything i wanted... so your claim is invalid. There was no low point!

Sister Nur, people with accountancy degrees are not accountants. The term 'accountant' is a reference to people qualifed either ACCA or ACA or CIMA

I forgot to mention... we come under the ACCA banner! Khush!

[Just_Ahsun]

Secondly, you're taking my point about reverts coming to islam when they have failed at everything and misconstruing it. Many reverts come to islam when they're at their lowest point, they have no family, they have no self worth and they have no self esteem, that is a window of mercy

Like when people who fall ill with cancer and then begin to look for answers to life. i don't believe for one second that reverts come to islam when the 'stock market' is riding high in their lives. This is anecdotally speaking.


Assalamu Alaikum, brother this point is not even limited to reverts but one of the key factors when a non-practicing muslim becomes practicing and turns to his Lord when suffering in tyrants and misfortune. But in the end its a blessing in disguise which only few understand and repent with sincerity. Others turn their backs again once its all over.

Edit:

The issue is not of how much they earn, but what kind of a background leads to these type of jobs. Whereas people with well paid jobs, tend to have, education, good attitude, will and drive, fortitude etc

I think your generalizing it too much, its not necessary your education or type of job that defines your intellectual capacity. But your will to learn from your surroundings and taking interest in activities around you. A prime example can be one the famous scientists (galileo was it?? not entirely sure) who dropped out from college but later on went to make discoveries and contributing to modern science.
Because, trust me their are brighter people out their in africa and sub-continent who don't get the same chances as we do.

[Nafs-Zakiyah]

Bismillah

I never said there is anything wrong with having money. But it comes down to how attached one is to it, and how one spends it. Now Sayyiduna Rasulullah (sallAllahu alayhi wa aalihi wassalam), some of the Sahaba (radiAllahu anhum) and scholars of Islam had money. And for some of them it came and went, sometimes they were well off, sometimes they were poor. And it didn't make a difference to them. And when they had money, they still lived modest, they didn't get absorbed in the dunya.

If it's about ambitions as you claim, then why are some knowledgable students of knowledge rejected because they do not have proper dunya education and wealth? Now what if such a person is a street cleaner, or if he does any other low paid job? Financial status and job can play its part here, but not necessarily. It means that they spent alot of time educating themselves in a way that could make money, while someone who dedicates themselves to Islam shows that they are dedicated to the deen.

And i could say that some people who have "good" educations and well paid jobs are intellectually handicapped, it all depends on what one finds to be good intellectual traits. And a guy working at the warehouse can also show that he is hard working, and for you to look pass that is to disrespect certain important sectors of the society.

There is nothing wrong in wanting to keep family ties, like i said. But it is wrong when it becomes a plague for the ummah. And someone have to take the first step, whether it be a daughter, a son, or parents agreeing with their childrens choice.

wassalam

[zulfkar333]

Originally posted by: Sister Nur.

Sidi, my point is not there is anything wrong with wanting to provide for your family.But its not necessary that poorer people are not happy. I'll give u my own example: was proposed to by 2 individuals. One was a chemical engineer, very very wealthy... good family, large houses, multiple cars, muslim born, etc etcOne was a poor revert, only jobs he can take is low skilled labour... but he loves the ahlul bayt... and puts his deen before everything...which one did i choose? Take your guess.

Mashallah.

You have a lot of patience and may Allah Taala reward you in abundance for the steps you have taken in life. Inshallah with the blessing of Hazoor (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) may Allah Taala shower you and your family highly.

It goes to show that you chose an individual who had nothing except love for the family of Hazoor (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) and Inshallah you'll see the reward when you meet Allah Taala and Hazoor (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) on the day of judgement.

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Originally posted by: Z Hussain

Originally posted by: Sister Nur.Sidi, my point is not there is anything wrong with wanting to provide for your family.But its not necessary that poorer people are not happy. I'll give u my own example: was proposed to by 2 individuals. One was a chemical engineer, very very wealthy... good family, large houses, multiple cars, muslim born, etc etcOne was a poor revert, only jobs he can take is low skilled labour... but he loves the ahlul bayt... and puts his deen before everything...which one did i choose? Take your guess.Mashallah.You have a lot of patience and may Allah Taala reward you in abundance for the steps you have taken in life. Inshallah with the blessing of Hazoor (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) may Allah Taala shower you and your family highly. It goes to show that you chose an individual who had nothing except love for the family of Hazoor (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) and Inshallah you'll see the reward when you meet Allah Taala and Hazoor (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) on the day of judgement.

Jazak Allahu Khayran Kind brother/sister. Your dua brought tears to my eyes.

[zulfkar333]

Sister Nur at least some of us on this forum can learn from what you have done, in taking steps in life moving more closer to the beloved of Allah Taala (Hazoor SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam). The way in which you sacrificed wealth and many worldly desires is truly amazing. It goes to show the purity of your heart and that true muslims should be able to sacrifice the world for Hazoor (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) and the Ahle Bayt.

You may struggle living in this world with many problems but remember the beloved of Allah Taala Hazoor (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) also faced many tests and challenges but only on the day of judgement you alone will know what you have achieved. Mashallah

P.s I'm a brother.

[Sister-Nur-Husayn]

Thankyou brother...

may Allah bless you and fill your days with nur and your nights with khayr, and bring you closer and closer to His Habib (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam).

[zulfkar333]

Originally posted by: Sister Nur.

Thankyou brother...may Allah bless you and fill your days with nur and your nights with khayr, and bring you closer and closer to His Habib (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam).

AMEEN and Jazakullah.