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Authenticity of a Hadith I am the gate of knolwedge and Ali is the door

Posted 19 December 2007 - 10:48 PM (#1) User is offline   SufianA 

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"I am the city of knowledge, and Ali is the door"

salaam. could anyone tell me if this hadith is authentic/fabricated?
Prophet Muhammad (saw) (pbuh) "Do not acquire knowledge to compete with the scholars,nor argue with the ignorant, nor to gain mastery over gatherings. Since whoever does that,then:the fire!the fire!"
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Posted 19 December 2007 - 10:59 PM (#2) User is offline   Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw 

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As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

As far as i am aware it is Saheeh or Hasan and it's only the wahabbiyya and nawaasib that say it isn't.

Walhamdulillahi Rabbil 'alameen.


Laa Fatah illa 'Ali Laa Sayf illa Dhulfiqaar

Ali nu yaad karo
Jisi 'Ali nahin milte Khuda nahin milta

Ya Ameerul mumineen wa Imaamul mutaqeen Imaamul Awliyah Sher e Allah Mawlana e kainaat Mushkil kushaa Sayyidina Mawlana Haider al Karrar 'Ali al Murtadha 'alaykas salaam Madad
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Posted 20 December 2007 - 12:23 AM (#3) User is offline   Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw 

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As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Sidi that is a shi'a site, can you please remove the link .

JazakAllah khair.


Laa Fatah illa 'Ali Laa Sayf illa Dhulfiqaar

Ali nu yaad karo
Jisi 'Ali nahin milte Khuda nahin milta

Ya Ameerul mumineen wa Imaamul mutaqeen Imaamul Awliyah Sher e Allah Mawlana e kainaat Mushkil kushaa Sayyidina Mawlana Haider al Karrar 'Ali al Murtadha 'alaykas salaam Madad
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Posted 20 December 2007 - 01:10 AM (#4) User is offline   Faiz-E-Noori 

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Regarding the following Hadith Shareef:

'I am the city of Knowledge, and Ali (Radi Allah Anhu) is its gate'.

It has been related by Imam Al Hakim in 'Al Mustadarak', Imam Tabarani's, 'Maujam Al Awsat' (The Greater Collection).

According to the following great Hadith masters Hafiz Ibn Hajar Asqalani (Alaih Rahmah), Hafiz Ibn Hajar Haytami (Also known as Ibn Hajar Makki) (Alaih Rahmah) and Imam Jallaluddin Suyuti (Alaih Rahmah) have declared the Hadith Shareef as Hasan.

JazakAllah

Fi Amaanillah
Charon Taraf Hain Najdi Wahabi,
Beech Main Tanha Mera Raza,
Aise Main Islam Bachana,
Sab ke Bas Ki Baat Nahin

Bhaatee Nahin Humdum Mujhe Jaanat Kee Jawaani
Sunta Nahin Zahid Se Main Huurun Kee Kahani
Ulfat Hai Mujhe Saaye E Deewaar E Nabi Se

Ya Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam)
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Posted 20 December 2007 - 09:50 PM (#5) User is offline   SufianA 

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the reason why i asked was because in a book i was reading by sheikh Hisham Kabbani, he mensions this hadith.

however then in a lecture by sheikh hamza Yusuf, he said it was a fabricated hadith...? so it came as a bit of a shock to me..
may be i am mistaken, however i am 99% sure that is what i heard.

May Allah forgive me if i am wrong. Allah knows best, i do love and respect both religious guides.


Prophet Muhammad (saw) (pbuh) "Do not acquire knowledge to compete with the scholars,nor argue with the ignorant, nor to gain mastery over gatherings. Since whoever does that,then:the fire!the fire!"
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Posted 21 December 2007 - 02:23 AM (#6) User is offline   Faiz-E-Noori 

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I refer to classical scholars when it comes to the sceince of Hadith and the different gradings of Hadith.

Charon Taraf Hain Najdi Wahabi,
Beech Main Tanha Mera Raza,
Aise Main Islam Bachana,
Sab ke Bas Ki Baat Nahin

Bhaatee Nahin Humdum Mujhe Jaanat Kee Jawaani
Sunta Nahin Zahid Se Main Huurun Kee Kahani
Ulfat Hai Mujhe Saaye E Deewaar E Nabi Se

Ya Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam)
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Posted 21 December 2007 - 03:11 AM (#7) User is online   Qadri-Jilani 

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can you show us the clip where he says this?

quite shocking, i have only known kharji/nasbis to reject such things.

This is a very famous hadith and i have heard it quoted by all sunni scholars.
Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 23 December 2007 - 10:49 PM (#8) User is offline   SufianA 

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inshallah i will try to find the lecture and upload it..

jazakallah for your replies anyway.
Prophet Muhammad (saw) (pbuh) "Do not acquire knowledge to compete with the scholars,nor argue with the ignorant, nor to gain mastery over gatherings. Since whoever does that,then:the fire!the fire!"
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Posted 19 September 2010 - 05:49 AM (#9) User is offline   Sahib 

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All Praise is due to Allah, the Lord of all mankind.

In this short treatise I will discuss a well-known narration attributedto the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) that is often cited as evidence ofthe superiority of Ali, and his reverence by the Prophet (صلى الله عليهوسلم). The first narration says "I am the city of Knowledge, and Ali isthe door of it" while another one says "I am the house of wisdom andAli is a door of it". The meaning of these two narrations are ambiguousto an extent, and the followers of the Shi`a religion have perpetuatedseveral meaning and interpretations of these narrations. In addition, Iwill endeavour to look at the authenticity of the above mentionednarrations in order to show what the followers of the Shi`a religionrely on in their argumentation.

Ali did not perceive himself as intellectually superior

I would like to point to one important narration which is oftenoverlooked by shi`as. Ali did not perceive himself to be intellectuallysuperior, or accredited knowledge to himself. This is evident fromShi`a sources;

"When people went to Amir al-mu'minin in a deputation and complained tohim through what they had to say against `Uthman, and requested him tospeak to him on their behalf and to admonish him for their sake, hewent to see him and said: The people are behind me and they have mademe an ambassador between you and themselves; but by Allah, I do notknow what to say to you. I know nothing which you do not know, nor canI lead you to any matter of which you are not aware. You certainly knowwhat we know, we have not come to know anything before you which wecould tell you; nor did we learn anything in secret which we shouldconvey to you"1.

This is reiterated in Hadith Literature which is accepted by the majority of Muslims;

"Narrated 'Ali: We have nothing except the Book of Allah and thiswritten paper from the Prophet (where-in is written:) Medina is asanctuary from the 'Air Mountain to such and such a place, and whoeverinnovates in it an heresy or commits a sin, or gives shelter to such aninnovator in it will incur the curse of Allah, the angels, and all thepeople, none of his compulsory or optional good deeds of worship willbe accepted. And the asylum (of protection) granted by any Muslim is tobe secured (respected) by all the other Muslims; and whoever betrays aMuslim in this respect incurs the curse of Allah, the angels, and allthe people, and none of his compulsory or optional good deeds ofworship will be accepted, and whoever (freed slave) befriends (take asmasters) other than his manumitters without their permission incurs thecurse of Allah, the angels, and all the people, and none of hiscompulsory or optional good deeds of worship will be accepted".

There is further evidence which indicates that Ali did not possesKnowledge that was unknown to the Muslim community about Islam, asindicated in;

"I used to get emotional urethral discharges frequently and felt shy toask Allah's Apostle about it. So I requested Al-Miqdad bin Al-Aswad toask (the Prophet) about it. Al-Miqdad asked him and he replied, "On hasto perform ablution (after it)"2. (This hadith was also narrated byshia al-Hurr al-Amili in "Wasailu shia" 1/278/№7 (731), and Abu JafarAt-Toose in "al-Istibsar" 1/91/№2 (292).)

In addition to the above quoted narration, we raise the question ofwhether it is plausible to believe that all knowledge came through Ali("the gate") to the Prophet (the city) (صلى الله عليه وسلم). Thereforeif he was a "gate for knowledge", why do we see him coming to "city ofknowledge" from another "gate" – al-Miqdad?


Opinion of scholars on Ali being the gate of knowledge

Those who said it's authentic
Hakim in his "Mostadrak".

Those who said it's good (hasan)
Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, hafidh al-Alai, Suyuti, Sakhawe, Shawkani.

Those who said that it's weak, fabricated or rejected.
Yahya ibn Muin said about this hadith: "There is no base for it"3.Khatib in his "Tareeh" (11/205) narrated that ibn Muin said: "Lie, nobase for it, extremely rejected". In "Sualat li ibn Junayd" (185)written that ibn Muin said: "Lie, no base for it". (Note: It ismentioned elsewhere that he accepted this hadith.
Bukhari said: "Rejected (munkar), there is nothing from authentic in it"4.
Tirmizi said: "Qareeb (strange, odd) and rejected (munkar)"5. (Tirmizisaid that right after he narrated this hadith in his "Sunnan",Abdulhusayn quoted him in "al-Murajiat", but as usual omitted hisopinion, as non suitable).
Ibn Jawzi said: "Hadith isn't authentic even if consider all ways of transmission"6.
Ibn Hibban said: "This story has no base from prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم)7.
Uqayli in "Duafa"8 said: "There is no authentic hadith with such text".
Daraqutni said: "Hadith is mixed, not steady"9.
Dhahabi ruled that it's fabricated10.
Shaykhul Islam ibn Taymiyah ruled that it's fabricated11.
Allama Abdurrahman al-Mualami ruled that it's fabricated12.
Allama shaykh Nasir ad-deen al-Albani ruled that it's fabricated13.
Ibn Adi ruled that it's fabricated14.
Ibn al-Arabi said it's false (batil) in "Akhamul Quran" (5/104)
Muhammad ibn Darwish al-Hoot included it in his "Asna mattalib" (n 390), and cited there opinions of Tirmizi and Bukhari.
Nawavi said hadith is false in "Tahzib asma wa lughat" (1/480)15.
Abul Muhasen Muhammad ibn Khalil al-Qawukchi (القاوقجي) included it inhis "al-Luli mawsua fima la asla lahu aw bil asli mawdua" (n 84).
Jazari ruled that this hadith is fabricated16.

Narration from ibn Abbas.

Route 1
It was reported by al-Hakim in "Mustadrak" (4637), Tabarani in"al-Kabir", and Tabari in "Tahzib al-athar" via chain: Abu SaltAbdussalam ibn Saleh reported to me Abu Moawiyah from al-Amash fromMujahid from ibn Abbas.

Dhahabi in "Talkhis" said it's fabrication. Al-Heythami in "Majmauzawaid" (14670) said: "Reported by Tabarani, in the chain Abdussalamibn Salih al-Harwe and he's weak".
This chain is extremely weak
Abdussalam ibn Salih was accused. Abul Hasan Ali ibn Muhammad ibnal-Arraq al-Kinani in "Tanziru sharia" (1/79/#166) said: "Abdussalamibn Salih Abu Salt al-Harwi was accused in lie by more than onescholar". Abu Abdullah al-Hakim in "al-Madkhal ila sahih" (#139) said:"Abdussalam ibn Salih ibn Sulayman Abu Salt al-Harwi. Narrated fromKhammad ibn Ziyad, Abu Moawiyah, Abbad ibn al-Awam and other rejectedstories". Same opinion was quoted by Abu Nuyam al-Isfahani in "Kitabuduafa" (#140).
Uqayli said about this narrator: "Rafidi habidh", ibn Adi said:"Accused". Nasai said: "Not tuthful". Daraqutni said: "Habidh rafidi,was accused in fabrication of hadith: "Faith is by accepting byheart"17.
Zakariya Saji said: "He narrated munkar stories, and he was weak due totheir opinion". And it was reported from Uqayli that he said about AbuSalt: "Liar". Naqash said: "Narrated manakir". Muhammad ibn Takharsaid: "Liar"18.
Hafidh al-Khalili in "Irshad" (3/873) said: "He wasn't strong due totheir opinion". Imam Zeylai al-Hanafi in "Nasbu rayi" (1/345), ibnRajab in "Fathkul bare" (6/412) and ibn Hajar in "Tahrij ahadethkashaf" (2/465) said: "Abandoned".
Abu Moawiyah turned from narrating this hadith Dc. Khalifat al-Kare inhis "Tahrij hadith Ana madinatul ilm" wrote: "Ibn Mukhriz narrated fromYahya ibn Muin: "It was reported to me by ibn Numayr, which said: "AbuMoawiyah use to narrate it in the past, and then turned away fromnarrating it"19
Same was noticed in "Usudul qaba" (1/794).
Another problem in this chain is al-Amash. He was truthful narrator,but awell known mudalith. And he narrated this hadith from Mujahid inanana form, without making it clear. If he heard it himself or not.
Yaqub ibn Shayba said: "I asked from Ali al-Madini: "How many ahadethal-Amash hear from Mujahid?" He answered: "Narrations (of al-Amash fromMujahid) are not established unless (al-Amash while narrating from him)said: "I heard (him saying)". Narrations of al-Amash from Mujahid, aregoing via Yahya al-Qattan"20
Yahya ibn Sayed al-Qattan said: "I wrote narrations of al-Amash fromMujahid, all of them were connected by him, (he) didn't hear from him(anything)"21.
Ibn Muin said: "Hearing of Mujahid by al-Amash, nothing from what henarrated from him, he heard from him, without doubt they aredisconnected, mudalis"22.

Route 2

It was reported by al-Hakim in "Mustadrak" (4638) via chain: Muhammadibn Ahmad ibn Tamem al-Qantare narrated to me al-Hussain ibn Fahmnarrated to me Muhammad ibn Yahya ibn Durayth narrated to me Muhammadibn Jafar al-Faydhi narrated to me Abu Moawiyah from al-Amash fromMujahid from ibn Abbas.

This chain is weak. We have already mentioned Al-Amash from Mujahid.The narrator Muhammad al-Qantare, ibn al-Fooras said that there issoftness in him23. And the narrator Al-Hussain ibn Fahm. Daraqutni saidabout him: "He's not strong". Same opinion was reported from Hakimhimself24.

Route 3
It was transmitted by ibn Asakir in "Tarih madinatul dimashk" (42/379)via chai: Rajah ibn Salamah reported to me Abu Moawiyah ad-Darer fromal-Amash from Mujahid from ibn Abbas.

I already talked about link "al-Amash from Mujahid", but this chain hasanother defect, that's Rajah ibn Salamah. Ibn Hajar in "Lisanul mizan"(2/456) quoted ibn Jawzi, which accused this narrator in stealing ofahadeth.

Route 4
It was reported by ibn Asakir (42/379) via chain: Abu Sayed al-Hasanibn Ali ibn Salih al-Adawe reported to me Hasan ibn Ali ibn Rashidreported to me Abu Moawiyah reported to me al-Amash from Mujahid fromibn Abbas.

The above route has "al-Amash from Mujahid" in the narration, and inaddition to it chain weakened by Abu Sayed al-Adawe. Ibn Jawzi in"al-Mawdua" (1/354) said: "Liar". Ibn Adi accused him in fabrication ofahadeth. Daraqutni said he's abandoned25.

Route 5
In "Tarih madinatul dimashk" (42/379) via chain: Ahmad ibn Salamah AbuAmr al-Jurjani reported to me Abu Muawiyah from al-Amash from Mujahidfrom ibn Abbas.

The problem here is with tadlis of al-Amash which is next to Abu Moawiyah.

Ibn Adi said about Ahmad ibn Salamah: "Related false stories from reliable (truthful narrators) and steal ahadeth"26.

Route 6
In "Tarih madinatul dimashk" (42/379-380) via chain: Sayed ibn UqbaAbul Fatkh al-Koofe reported to me Sulaiman al-Amash from Mujahid fromibn Abbas.

Ibn Adi said: "Sayed is unknown, not truthful"27.

Route 7
In "Tarih madinatul dimashk" (42/380) via chain: Umar ibn Ismail ibnMujalad narrated to me Abu Moawiyah from al-Amash from Mujahid from ibnAbbas.

Problem in tadlis of al-Amash, and Umar ibn Ismail. Yahya ibn Muinaccused Umar ibn Ismail in lie. Daraqutni and Nasai said he'sabandoned. Ibn Adi said he use to steal ahadeth28.

Route 8
In "Tarih madinatul dimashk" (42/381) via chain: Jafar ibn Muhammadal-Baghdade Abu Muhammad al-Faqeh, and there was something in histongue, reported to me Abu Moawiyah from al-Amash from Mujahid from ibnAbbas.

It's interesting note "there was something in his tongue". It caneither mean that he had some defects in his speech, like stuttering orlisping, either it was be hint that his speech wasn't truthful, ordoesn't look like speech of truthful. Allah knows best. Moreimportantly this chain also includes "Al-Amash from Mujahid". Inaddition to that this Jafar ibn Muhammad was accused in stealing ofahadeth29.

He was also indirectly accused by Khatib al-Bagdade. He (rahimuhullah)narrated this hadith via this chain, and said: "No one reliablenarrated it from Abu Moawiyah"30, by these words Khatib pointed thatthis Jafar was not reliable. Dhahabi in "Mizanul itidal" (1/415/#1525)noticed that there in suspense in this narrator. Then he quoted thishadith and said its fabrication.

Route 9
Transmitted by ibn Jawzi in "al-Mawdua" (1/352). Chain contain sameproblem as previous in tadlis of al-Amash and his narration fromMujahid. Another defect is Ismail ibn Muhammad ibn Yusuf. Ibn Hibbansaid: "He stole ahadeth and fabricated chains, it's not permitted torely on him"31.

Route 10
Reported by ibn Mardaweyh via chain: al-Hasan ibn Uthman from Mahmod ib Khadash from Abu Moawiyah.

Ibn Jawzi cited it in "al-Mawdua" (1/352) and at page 354 quoted ibn Adi saying: "He use to fabricate ahadeth".

Conclusion

Everyone that has narrated this hadith has done so from Abu Moawiyah, and he stole It from Abu Salt. This is evident from;

Abul Qasem Hamza ibn Yusuf al-Jurjani in his "Tareeh Jurjan" (1/65)quoted ibn Adi saying: "This hadith is known by Abu Salt al-Harwi,Ahmad ibn Salamah and group of weak (narrators) stole it from him". Andit was also reported that Ibn Adi said: "This hadith fabricated, it'sknown as (fabrication) of Abu Salt (Abdussalam ibn Salih), and it wasnarrated by group of people that stolen this hadith from him". AbuKhatim ibn Hibban said: "No base for this hadith from prophet (صلى اللهعليه وسلم), and that was not narrated by ibn Abbas, or Mujahid, oral-Amash, and this isn't hadith of Abu Moawiyah. Each one who narratedhadith with similar text, stole it from Abu Salt, and fabricated chainof narrators". Imam Ahmad was asked about this hadith, and he said:"May Allah whip Abu Salt"32.

Narration from Jabir
Route 1
It was reported by al-Hakim in "Mustadrak" (4639) via chain: Ahmad ibnAbdullah ibn Yazeed al-Harrani narrated to Abdurrazaq narrated to meath-Thawri from Abdullah ibn Uthman ibn Khaitham from Abdurrahman ibnUthman at-Tayme which said: I heard Jabir ibn Abdullah. (hadith).

Ahmad ibn Abdullah al-Harrani is liar, as said Dhahabi in "Talkhis".

Route 2
It was narrated as a part of bigger narration by ibn Asakir in hishistory (42/382-383) via chain that contains Ahmad ibn Abdullah ibnYazeed al-Mawadab. Ibn Adi said he use to fabricate ahadeth33.

Route 3
Contains Ahmad ibn Tahir ibn Kharmala. Ibn Jawzi in "al-Mawdua" (1/354)quoted ibn Adi saying: "From the most mendacious people".

Narrated from Ali
Route 1
It was reported by Abu Nuaym in "Marifatus sahaba", Ajurri in"Shariah", Tabari in "Tahzib al-athar", and also present in "Fadhailusahaba" (n 1081) via chain: Muhammad ibn Umar ibn ar-Roome (or simplyRoome) narrated to me Sherik from Salamah ibn Kuhayl from as-Sanabehefrom Ali (hadith).

Tirmizi in "Sunnan" reported it via almost the same chain, but therebetween Salamah and Sanabehe is other narrator - Suwayd ibn Qafalah.

This chain is weak
Narrator Muhammad ibn Umar ibn ar-Roome is weak. Abu Dawud said he'sweak. Abu Dhurah said there was softness in him34. Ibn Hajar in"Taqrib" (6169) also noticed softness in this narrator. Tirmizi alsoaccused this narrator by his saying: "It's not known that anyone fromtruthful narrated this from Sherik". The other narrator is Sherik ibnAbdullah. This narrator was truthful, but erred in many instances.Ibrahim ibn Sayed al-Jawhari said: "Sherik erred in 400 ahadeth".Juzajani said: "He has a bad memory, his narrations are mixed". Ali ibnYahya ibn Sayed hold opinion that he's extremely weak. Ibn Mubaraksaid: "Ahadeth of Sherik are nothing". Daraqutni said: "He wasn'tstrong in those ahadeth that he narrated alone"35. Lastly this chain isbroken. Salamah didn't hear from Sanabehe36, as Daraqutni said37.

Route 2
It was reported by ibn Asakir in "Tarih madinatul dimashk" (42/378) viachain: Suwayd ibn Sayed reported to me Sherik from Salamah ibn Kuhaylfrom Sanabihe from Ali.

In addition to the previous problems mentioned, here we have Suwayd ibnSayed. Scholars differed in his grading. Bukhari said: "His ahadeth areextremely rejected". Nasai said he's weak. Ibn Muin accused him in lie.Two different views were reported from imam Ahmad. Ibn Jawzi narratedthat imam said: "Matrook al-hadith"38.

Route 3
Narrated by ibn Jawzi in "al-Mawdua" (1/349-350) and by Abu Nuaym in"Hilliyatul awliyah" (1/64) via chain: Abdulhamid ibn Bahr reported tome Sherik from Salamah ibn Kuhayl from Sanabehe from Ali.

Here we have Abdulhamid ibn Bahr in addition to the previouslymentioned problem with Sherik and gap between Salamah and Sanabehe. IbnHibban said about him: "[he] Used to steal ahadeth, and narrate fromthiqat narrations that weren't their ahadeth, it's not permitted torely on him"39.

Route 4
It was reported by ibn Mardaweyh and quote by ibn Jawzi in "al-Mawdua"(1/350). Narrator Muhammad ibn Qays is unknown, as said ibn Jawzi.

Route 5
Abu Nuaym in "Hilliyatul awliyah" (1/64) said that it was also narratedby Asbagha ibn Nabatah from Ali. Abu Bakr ibn Ayash said Asbagh wasliar. Ibn Hibban and Nasai said he's abandoned40.

Narration from Anas

Route 1
It was reported by Muhammad ibn Hamzah al-Faqeh in his "Ahadeth" (2/21)via chain: Muhammad ibn Jafar ash-Shashe – Abu Salih Ahmad ibn Mazid –Mansur ibn Sulayman al-Yame – Ibrahim ibn Sabiq – Asim ibn Ali – hisfather – Khumayd Tawel from him in elevated form.

Chain is weak. After Asim ibn Ali, all narrators are unknown. Father ofAsim that's Ali ibn Asim ibn Suhayb al-Wasete, and he's weak. Ibn Muinsaid he's nothing. Nasai noticed that he was abandoned. Bukhari said:"Not strong in their view, they use to criticize him"41.

Route 2
Narrated by ibn Asakir in his history (45/321) in this form: "I am cityof knowledge, Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman are fence of it, and Ali is agate".

Ibn Asakir himself said: "Extremely rejected by text and chain".

________________________________________________________

1 "Nahjul balagha" hutbah 163

2 Volume 1, Book 4, Number 178.

3 See Mawdudi "Rasail wa masail" 3/169.

4 "Maqasid al-hasanah" 189

5 "Sunnan" 4089.

6 "al-Mawdua" 1/353.

7 "Majroheen" 2/94.

8 3/150.

9 "al-Ilal" 3/248.

10 "Mizanul itidal" 1/415, 3/668; "Talkhis al-mustadrak" 3/126.

11 "Minhaju sunnah" 7/515.

12 "Hashiyatul fawaid al-majmua" p 349.

13 "Daif al-jamius sagher" 1322.

14 "al-Mawdua" 1/354.

15 Mahmood Shukri Aloose "Tuhfa isna ashariyah" p 203.

16 Mahmood Shukri Aloose "Tuhfa isna ashariyah" p 203.

17 "Mizanul itidal" 2/616/#5051.

18 "Tahzib at tahzib" 6/286.

19 "Marifatul rijal" riwayat ibn Mukhriz 1/79.

20 "Tahzib at tahzib" 4/197

21 Ibn Abu Khatim "Jarh wa tadil" 1/241

22 "Rawayatu ibn Tahman" #59.

23 "Lisanul mizan" 5/49.

24 "Mizanul itidal" 1/545/ n 2041.

25 "Mizanul itidal" 1/506/ n 1904.

26 "al-Mawdua" 1/354.

27 "Mizanul itidal" 2/153/ n 3243; "al-Mawdua" 1/354.

28 "Mizanul itidal" 3/182/ n 6055.

29 "al-Mawdua" 1/354.

30 "Tarih al-Baghdade" 7/172.

31 "al-Mawdua" 1/354.

32 "al-Mawdua" 1/354

33 "Mizanul itidal" 1/109/ n 429; "al-Mawdua" 1/354

34 "Mizanul itidal" 3/668/ n 8002.

35 "Mizanul itidal" 2/270-271.

36 Ibn al-Arraq al-Kinani "Tanziru sharia marfoa" 1/377/ n 103.

37 "al-Mawdua" 1/353.

38 "Mizanul itidal" 2/248/ n 3621.

39 "al-Mawdua" 1/353.

40 "Mizanul itidal" 1/271/ n1014.

41 "Mizanul itidal" 3/135/ n 5873.

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 01:51 PM (#10) User is offline   Zarb-e-Ali 

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Shaykh Hamza Yusaf is wrong even if he said that. He never claimed all his words and writings are pure from error.
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Posted 19 September 2010 - 02:21 PM (#11) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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Once I read this fabrication at Sipah-e-Sahaba‘s place of worship and terrorist training.

I am the city of knowledge, Abu Bakar is the foundation, Omar is the Walls, Usman is the roof and Ali is the door.


And then they explain that foundation, walls and roof are too important, city can survive without door.


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Posted 19 September 2010 - 02:25 PM (#12) User is offline   Muhammad-Azeem-Alvi 

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Asalaam-o-Alikum,

Everyone can read the great and scholartic answers of Hazrat Fani Fillah Baqi Billa Ayatummin Ayatillah Hazoor Syedna Pir Mehr Ali Shah Sahib (Radi Allah Anho) about the concerned issues (Khilafat-e-Rashida, Bagh-e-Fadak, Hadis-e-Qirtas, Ayat-e-Tatheer, Ayat-e-Muaddat, Ayat-e-Mubahela, Hadis-e-Madina-ul-Ilm) in his book 'Tasfia Mabain Sunni-o-Shia'.

The last part of the book is about Hadis e Madina-ul-Ilm, in which Hazoor Syedna Pir Mehr Ali Shah Gilani (Radi Allah Anho) has provided very very strong evidences about the authenticity of this Hadis-e-Pak with different chains of narrations and has strongly rejected the views of Sheikh Ibn-e-Tamia and Allama Jauzi (they both claimed that this Hadis Pak is fabricated).


Hazrat-e-Ala Golravi (RA) has left all the scholars just speechless, who say that this narration is weak or fabricatedLink is provided below:

http://www.golrasharif.pk/sm/books/Book%2015/gallery.swf

Wassalam

Sag e Dargah-e-Golra Sharif

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 03:40 PM (#13) User is offline   JoeDacky 

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Quote

Desert Sheikh (19.09.2010)

Once I read this fabrication at Sipah-e-Sahaba‘s place of worship and terrorist training.

I am the city of knowledge, Abu Bakar is the foundation, Omar is the Walls, Usman is the roof and Ali is the door.


And then they explain that foundation, walls and roof are too important, city can survive without door.



This stinks of Khwarji desperation.

I cant remember ever going to a city with a roof..!! And whats the point of walls with no door? How would you get in or out? Did they not tell you that they must be the rat infested and majorly blocked sewer of a city from where they spout rubbish such as the above?

 

 
Bol Raha Hai Tan Man Saara Ali Ali!
Hai Mastoon Ka Har Dam Nara Ali Ali!
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Posted 19 September 2010 - 04:52 PM (#14) User is offline   Know-the-Ledge 

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Quote

shadhilli (19.09.2010)

Quote

Desert Sheikh (19.09.2010)

Once I read this fabrication at Sipah-e-Sahaba‘s place of worship and terrorist training.

I am the city of knowledge, Abu Bakar is the foundation, Omar is the Walls, Usman is the roof and Ali is the door.


And then they explain that foundation, walls and roof are too important, city can survive without door.



This stinks of Khwarji desperation.

I cant remember ever going to a city with a roof..!! And whats the point of walls with no door? How would you get in or out? Did they not tell you that they must be the rat infested and majorly blocked sewer of a city from where they spout rubbish such as the above?

 

 


People aren't really cities and doors you know, the whole thing is allegorical; use some better logic than that if you want to negate it!
I.Will.Back
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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:36 PM (#15) User is offline   truthseek 

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With all respects for everyone who is not doing Shirk!!!!



Hadith About the City of Knowledge and Ali is its Gate [A Sunni Perspective]
Posted Image

Ibn al-Hashimi of Team Ahlel Bayt writes:

In reference to the following Hadith:

“I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate.”

It was related by al-Hakim, at-Tabarani and others. It was also related by at-Tirmidhi with the wording, “I am the House of Wisdom, and Ali is its Door.”

Albani declared the Hadith to be Mawdoo (fabricated). Daraqutni labeled the Hadith as mudtarib (shaky), both in isnad and text. Tirmidhi labeled it is ghareeb (weak) and munkar (rejected). Bukhari said that the Hadith has no sahih narration and declared it un-acknowledgeable. Qurtubi said about this Hadith in al-Jame’ li Ahkam al-Quran: “This Hadith is Batil (false)!” Ibn Maeen said that the Hadith is a baseless lie. Dhahabi considered it a forgery and included it in his book on forged Hadiths. Al-Hakim declared that it is weak. Amongst others who dismissed the Hadith are Abu Zur`ah, Abu Hatim, Yahya bin Saeed, etc.

This Hadith is narrated by many unreliable chains. These Isnads (chains of transmission) were deemed to be unreliable because they contain Shia, liars, and people accused of lying. It should be noted that Ibn Hajar and some others differed and stated that because there were so many unreliable chains–and because the meaning of this Hadith is not invalid–that collectively these many unreliable chains could constitute a level of Hasan. However, we do not agree with this position and instead take the opinion of Bukhari and the many others who deemed that the weakness in the chains could not constitute anything but weakness or forgery.

However, even those who accept this Hadith do not interpret the Hadith in the same manner that the Shia do. The Hadith refers to Ali as a gate to the city of knowledge; yet, this does not impart exclusivity nor does it convey superiority of Ali over Abu Bakr or Umar. The Prophet similarly praised other Sahabah and it is incorrect to take a close-minded and dogmatic approach to this Hadith. Abu’l Mu`in al-Nasafi says in Tabsirat al-Adilla: “This Hadith does not establish the superiority of Sayyiduna Ali (over Abu Bakr). ‘I’m the city of knowledge and Ali is its door.’ A city never has only door (unlike a fortress). Rather, most cities would have…one (door) from each side.”

In another Hadith, the Prophet refers to Ali as his brother, and the Shia use this as a proof for the superiority of Ali over Abu Bakr. And yet, the Prophet similarly refers to Abu Bakr as his brother, and this is recorded in the Sahihayn! What the Shia need to understand (and Allah help them to understand this seemingly intuitive concept) is that these are not praises of exclusivity. A man can have many brothers, not just one! We direct the reader’s attention to the following Hadith:

“Let no door of the Mosque remain open, except the door of Abu Bakr.”

(Sahih Muslim, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 244)

In this Hadith, the Prophet even uses an expression of exclusivity (i.e. let no door…), yet we Sunnis still do not interpret this literally. Instead, we understand that these are expressions of praise. The other doors of the Mosque were not closed, as it is clear that this is a saying and it is meant simply to praise Abu Bakr. Furthermore, this Hadith shows that there are many doors, not just one. In the case of the Hadith of the city of knowledge, this reference is not to be taken literally: it is obvious that the Prophet is not in actuality a city. In other words, this is a saying not to be taken literally; it is praise of Ali and cannot be construed in the sectarian manner that the Shia view it. The reader should be reminded that those scholars of Hadith who overlooked the weakness of the various chains of this Hadith did so on the condition that the meaning of the Hadith be interpreted in the manner above and not in the Shia manner.

In conclusion, the Hadith was narrated by weak and unreliable narrators (i.e. Shia, liars, etc.). It was not narrated by even a single reliable chain. As such, we are inclined to reject it, as was the opinion of the impressive list of scholars we mentioned above. We therefore reject both versions of the Hadith (i.e. the City of Knowledge and the House of Knowledge…).

Umm Abdullah of Team Ahlel Bayt writes:

The Hadith (i.e. the city of knowledge…) has been shown/declared to be false/fabricated by the following scholars:

Yahya Bin Ma’een
Source: al Jarh wat-Ta’deel 6/99
Su’alat ibn Junayd #185
Tareekh Baghdad 11/205

Ahmad Bin Hanbal
Source: Tareekh Baghdad 11/49

Ibn Hibban
Source: al Majruheen 2/136

Ibn ’Adi
Source: al Kamel fi ad-Du’afa 1/311 & 316

Al-Daraqutni
Source: Ta’liqat ‘ala al Majruheen 179

Ibn Tahir al-Maqdisi
Source: Dhakhirat al Huffadh 5/2578 - Tadhkirat al Huffadh #136

Ibn Al-Arabi al Maliki
Source: Ahkam al Quran 3/86

Ibn A’sakir
Source: Tareekh Dimashq 45\321

Ibn Al-Jawzi
Source: Al Mawdu’at 2/112-116

Al-Nawawi
Source: Tahdheeb al Asma’ wal-Lughat 1/348

Al-Mizzi
Source: Tahdheeb al Kamal 11/462

Al Dhahabi
Source: Mizan al-I’tidal 1/415 - 1/110

Abu Ali Efendi Abdullah al-Ujari of Team Ahlel Bayt writes:

In regards to the Hadith “I’m city of knowledge, and Ali is a gate”,

Shaykh Albani judged the Hadith in “Jamiu sagir” (#3247) as “fabricated.”

Shaykh Dhahabi judged the Hadith as “fabricated” in “Talkhees al-maudua” (1/115/#256).

The Hadith is narrated from Ibn Abbas in al-Mustadrak as follows:

[ 4637 ] حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا محمد بن عبد الرحيم الهروي بالرملة ثنا أبو الصلت عبد السلام بن صالح ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب


One of the narrators is Abu Salat Abdus-salam ibn Salih, and he is a rejected narrator in accordance to majority of the Ulema.

Mizzi in “Tahtheeb al Kamal” vol 18, #3421

وقال أبو بكر المروذي سئل أبو عبد الله عن أبي الصلت فقال روى أحاديث مناكير
Abu Bakr Marwadhi said: “I asked Abu Abdullah about Abu Salat, (and) he said: ‘(Abu Salat) narrated rejected (munkar) narrations.”

وقال زكريا بن يحيى الساجي يحدث بمناكير هو عندهم ضعيف
Zakariya ibn Yahya Sajji said: “(Abu Salat) narrated rejected narrations…he is weak.”

وقال النسائي ليس بثقة وقال عبد الرحمن بن أبي حاتم سألت أبي عنه فقال لم يكن عندي بصدوق وهو ضعيف ولم يحدثني عنه
Nasai said that Abu Salat is “not truthful.”
Abdur-Rahman ibn Abu Hatim said: “I asked my father about him, he said: ‘Not truthful for me; he is weak; I’m not narrating from him!’”

Ibn Hajar in “Tahtheeb at tahtheeb” 6/#619

وقال العقيلى رافضي خبيث وقال مسلمة عن العقيلى كذاب وقال ابن حبان لا يجوز الاحتجاج به

Ukayli said (about Abu Salat): “Rafidhi (Shia extremist), khabith (wicked).”

Muslimat reported that Ukayli said: “(Abu Salat) is liar.” Ibn Hibban said: “It’s not permissible to rely on him.”

وقال الحاكم والنقاش وأبو نعيم روى مناكير
Hakim Naggash and Abu Nuaym said: “(Abu Salat) narrated munkira (rejected narrations).”

وقال محمد بن طاهر كذاب
Muhammad ibn Tahar said (about Abu Salat): “Liar.”

Dhahabi in “Mizan” #5051:

وقال ابن عدى: متهم.

Ibn Adi said (about Abu Salat): “Accused!”

وقال الدارقطني: رافضي خبيث متهم بوضع حديث: الايمان إقرار بالقلب (1). ونقل عنه أنه قال: كلب للعلوية خير من بنى أمية.

Daraqutni said (about Abu Salat): “Rafidhi (Shia extremist), khabith (wicked). Accused in fabrication of narrations…”

Ibn Adi said: “The narration is fabricated by Abu Salat.”

Daraqutni further stated: “…Abu Salat is the man who fabricated this narration…And the groups of people steal this narration from him.”

Ahmad ibn Hanbal was asked about this narration and replied: “May Allah disfigure Abu Salat!”

In regards to the chain in #4638 of Mustadrak:

[ 4638 ] حدثنا بصحة ما ذكره الإمام أبو زكريا ثنا يحيى بن معين ثنا أبو الحسين محمد بن أحمد بن تميم القنطري ثنا الحسين بن فهم ثنا محمد بن يحيى بن الضريس ثنا محمد بن جعفر الفيدي ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب


One of the narrators is Husayn ibn Fahm who was not strong.

Ibn Hajar al Askalani in “Lisan al mizan” (Vol.2, #1266):

قال الحاكم ليس بالقوى
Hakim said (about Husayn ibn Fahm): “Not strong.”

ذكره الدار قطني فقال ليس بالقوى
Daraqutni mentioned (Husayn ibn Fahm) and said: “Not strong.”

The House of Wisdom and Ali is its Door

In regards to the Hadith in which the Prophet supposedly used the wording “House of Knowledge” instead of “City of Knowledge”, this was narrated in Tirmidhi. But Tirmidhi himself said about it that it was “munkar (rejected).” Bukhari said: “There is nothing authentic in it.” Ibn Maeen said: “It’s a lie.” (“Kashful hafa” 1/203)

Shaykh Dhahabi said in “Talkhees Kitab al-Maudua” (1/116) that it is “fabricated.”

Shaykh Albani said in “Jamiu as-sagir” (#3238) said that the Hadith was “fabricated.”

Ibn Daqiq said that the “narration is not steady; it is fabrication!” (Sahawi in “Makasidal Hasanat”, p.54)

Shawkani also said it is fabrication, and he included it in his book on weak narrations. (see Fawaid al-Majmua, p.348, #51)

The same is the case with Ibn al-Jawzi. (see “Maudua” 1/349-350-351)

Nawawi said in “Tahzeeb Asma wa Lughat” (p.480) that both versions of the Hadith (I am the House of Wisdom…and I am the City of Knowledge) are false:

وأما الحديث المروى عن الصنابحى، عن على، قال: قال رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم -: “أنا دار الحكمة، وعلى بابها”((1)). وفى رواية: “أنا مدينة العلم، وعلى بابها” ((2))، فحديث باطل، رواه الترمذى، وقال: هو حديث منكر


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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:38 PM (#16) User is offline   Khalid_the_Warrior 

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View Posttruthseek, on 11 December 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

With all respects for everyone who is not doing Shirk!!!!



What a nice way to start! :angry:

Its a Muslim forum and people don't do Shirk here. Please have some respect from your brothers/sisters in Islam.

Adab is the first step to knowledge!

Repentance is a strange mount -
it jumps towards heaven in a single moment from the lowest place
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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:00 PM (#17) User is offline   Brother_MGS 

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Lets pick on one of the books you mention.

Imam Ahmed Bin Hanbal® according to some sources in the same book Tarikh Al Baghdad holds a very negative image and opinion of Imam Abu Hanifa®. In the same book if one was to look further even Imam Malik® holds Imam e Azam® in a poor light. They completely negate Imam Abu Hanifa® as a Muhaddith.

Lets look at the Hadith from another angle.

Both Imam Al Hakim in ala al Sahiyan and Imam Jalaluddin Sayuti in tarikh ul Khulifa mention this hadith. Imam Jalaluddin Sayuti goes on to mention that both Imam Tirmidhi and Imam al Hakim both have this narration as strong.

Nawaqid al Rawafid of Imam Moyhuddin Jurjani and Imam Shah Abdul Haq Muhaddith Dehlwi in his Sharh al Mishkaat have narrated saying it is Sahih accoring to Imam Al Hakim and Hasan according to Imam Tirmidhi.

Sharh al Muwahhib by Imam Azhar Al Zurqani Al Maliki has also included this riwayaat.

They all term it strong from where it is qouted on the Authority of Sayyiduna Ali and Sayyiduna Ibn Abbas.

"Hadith of 'I am the city of knowledge and 'Ali is its gate' was narrated by al-Hakim in [the chapter of] "al-Manaqib" in his al-Mustadrak from Ibn 'Abbas. He [i.e. al-Hakim] said: Sahih. He was followed by al-Dhahabi ..... al-Daraqutni said: Proven (thabit), and al-Tirmidhi narrated it in [the chapter of] "al-Manaqib" in his al-Jami' - Mulla Ali Al Qari Al-Mirqat fi Sharh al-Mishkat volume 5.

Im sure more knowledgeable brothers can add a lot more to this.

Musnad Ahmed Bin Hanbal also has the narration where Sayyiduna Umar® said nobody apart from the Holy Prophet has ever said ask me. As in ask me any question and I will be able to tell the answer. I believe Sayyiduna Ali (A) also said this when they sat on the Mimbar in Kufa. If there are Sahabi more knowledgeable than Sayyiduna Ali(K) why wouldn't they ask fellow companions to ask them anything?
The only thing that comes to a sleeping man is dreams- Tupac Shakur
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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:15 PM (#18) User is offline   Desert-Sheikh 

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View PostKhalid_the_Warrior, on 11 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

What a nice way to start! :angry:

Its a Muslim forum and people don't do Shirk here. Please have some respect from your brothers/sisters in Islam.

Adab is the first step to knowledge!



Adab? Thanks God this is an online community, or, he would have blown us up!

@truthseek

Welcome on board!

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