[NC1]

Sunni Revolution I take my Topi off to you in respect .....of your views and stance !!!

Isnt there a ayah in the Quran sharif that says ...summat like " ...If you dont know then ask those that do ....

There is an answer to the Hadiths you question. When the Ulema are exhausted in their knowledge to understand any aspect of Nubbuwah, they will unfortunately take a view based on the evidence even if it is degrading ... and forget totally the concept of Infallibility or in Urdu a better word the "Mansab" of Nubbuwwah...  One or two other posters (inc Tahir minus sarcasm) agree with you too.

I will dig some notes out over the weekend and post here .. The kalaam is of the Aarifeen ... The only ones who can answer these questions ... I know you will be pleased ... with what little I have learnt on these specific Ahadith. Make dua..

Again May Allah increase even more your Love and Aqidah on Aqa (SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam)

[fahid]

As Salamu Alaikum

This is sensitive for all of us, we as Muslims shouldn't delve so much into such matters so we don't disrespect the great Prophet (salalahu alahi wasalam). However it is important to understand the views of the Ahl-Sunnah in things like this to answer those who dispute about it as well as remind us of the humanity of Rasullilah (salalahu alahi wasalam), that he was human he ate, slept, grieved, felt frustrated and so on, however we do not use these to attack him in anyway.

It's a common misconception that people believe that the Prophet (salalahu alahi wasalam) did not have any Free-Will whatsoever.

First we must understand that Allah does protect his Messengers and Prophets:

"Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom" (Qur'an 22:52)

"It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah's"..." (Qur'an 3:79)

Examples to get a better understanding of the type of Free-Will of Prophet Muhammad (salalahu alahi wasalam):

"Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah..." (Qur'an 33:37)

"Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur'an) to make haste therewith." (Qur'an 75:16) - This is at least according to the Sahih Hadith, that he was doing so and Allah revealed this verse.

To elaborate, one has to realize that Prophets do NOT SIN, there is a difference between SIN and a human quality such as forgetfulness or haste. As soon as you say SIN whether minor or major, it is a SIN, however anything the Prophets (may Allah be pleased with them) did were not sins whatsoever, rather as mentioned before Khata or Zalla that was done is forgiven and are for a lesson for the Prophets so that they may get closer to Allah. Hence the Ahl-Sunnah agree that the Prophets are sinless. Allah knows best.

[Moinuddin786]

As salaamu 'alaikum

The title of this post

Can Personal Opinion of Holy Prophet (saw) be Wrong?

is disrespectful.

The word wrong, wrong in whose opinion? mine and yours?(astagfirullah)

In all the 3 hadith the Prophet (sallalhu alaihissallam) explains that it it their opinion.

From that hadith how do we end up in discussing if the rest of what the Prophet (sallalhu alaihissallam) said is to be followed or not.

[MMM]

Originally posted by: Jasim Hashmany

I haven't read this whole thread but went over it pretty quick, so I'm sorry if I am repeating any information. This link might be beneficial.http://www.islamicacademy.org/html/Fatwa/Aik_Sawal/sawal_1.htmJazakAllah

Summarizing the above article/Fatwa..

Maulana Jalaluddin Amjadi Sahab conclude on the basis of The Holy Qur'aan, Ahadith and Tafaseer that:

1. The Holy Prophet's every deed is not Wahy.

2. The Religious deeds are Wahy.

Basically what brother SR questioned earlier:

The above hadiths suggest that this infallibility is limited to Religion only?

Eventhough the Fatwa seems logical in the scope of the discussion by the Mufti Sahab, what will the conclusion be if the 'Aqeeda of The Knowledge of Unseen is put into question?

Did The Holy Prophet not know then (ma'az Allah), since their attention was towards the incident too and it was not the Wahy of Allah 'Azzawajal either?

An example referred in the above fatwa is of Taa'if when The Holy Prophet withdrew the army on the suggestion of a companion. The question is why did The Holy Prophet commanded for the expedition?

If the belief, "The Holy Prophet's every deed is not Wahy" but the "Religious deeds" are only, is taken up (since Knowledge of Deen classifies into Madhab and Secular), then we are explicitly declaring that the possibility of mistakes (not sins) existed and took place in the secular matters (ma'az Allah).

The question is what do the scholars say about the Knowledge of Unseen then?

Another opinion the scholars state is when referring to The Knowledge of the Unseen is that probably The Holy Prophet's attention was not towards the particular action...but this cannot be applied in the above and The Hadith quoted by SR since The Holy Prophet intended to advise and intended to invade Taa'if, their attention was bound to be on the result.

The incidents are either incomplete, contain narrative errors, etc.

Conclusion:
Our interpretations can be wrong/mistaken/incorrect. The Beloved Personality of Our Beloved Master is infallible, spotless and free from the committing of any errors. There has to be a distinction between the Love of Our Beloved Master and the opinions of the scholars.

this reminds me of the time when as a student i decided to take the 'plunge'...the reason is that on one side WE the true ahl al-sunna hold to the idea of absolute perfection in the person of Sarwar e konain(SalAllaho Alahi WaAlehi Wasalam) and yet we  still try our utmost best to 'reconcile/tatbeeq' of such reports and try explaining DEEN/DUNYA matters etc

I completely understand and am in agreement with the above.

Jazakukumullahu Khayran

[Asfoor-ul-Madina]

Assalaamu alaikum wa rehmatullah,

I have been pondering over this questions for quite some time now and I think I might have found an answer. If we are to question the possibility of the Beloved Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) to make a mistake, we must take into consideration the different forms of mistakes, and the level they stand at, and the time at which the Prophet made the mistake (if He did).
There are two branches of mistakes which come from the sagheera sins, which are known as amdan and sahwan.In the same way the life span of a Prophet could be divided into two: time after zuhoor nabuwat, and time before zuhoor nabuwat.
All Prophets are born Arif Billah, hence they do not even have the possibility of commiting a kabeera sin. however they do have the possibility of doing a sagheera sin, and this will only be done khata'an (unintentionally) as none of the Prophets would make a mistake intentionally. The mistake made by the Prophet will not remain with Him forever, but will be removed, as it will be a limited mistake, making Him return to Allah. 
In the case of the Majesty, Habibina Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) even unintentional sagheera sins are not made. So then the question arises:


which Prophet possbily commits mistakes in matters of Religion? None!
So where do these hadiths leave us?
All of the ahadith stated above are a form of ijtihad. Ijtihad is not a mistake, but is just a personal opinion of the Beloved Messenger. For example if I was to say an ambiguous object is sos and so, yet another person says no it is so and so, in this case nor would I have nor the other have wronged, it is just what we 'think' according to our experience and knowledge. The Prophets opinion at some points seems to contradict what Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) reveals, because it is out of His own innocent and humble character. This can be seen in Ash-shifa, where it says (when in a certain case the Prophets opinion was different to what was revealed upon Him after : " This shows His high station with Allah- which is not hidden from anyone with the least intelligence. it shows the honour in which He holds the Prophet and His kindness to Him..."


forgive me for any mistakes
wasalaam

[hassy_92]

Salaam, there was once an argument between a muslim and a jew, to solve the problem their took the issue into the court of huzzor saalllahu alai hi wasallam, aap sallalahu alai hi wasallam gave the decision in favour of the jew. Upon hearing this decision the muslim was angry and he new that the 2nd khalifa hazrat Umar radiallahu anhu didnt like the kuffar so he thought that he woulld go to them and explain what has happend.

When Umar Farooq Radiallahu anhu heard from the man that he had already been to huzoor sallalhu alai hi wasallam and then he came to him he immediately drew his sword and chopped the mans head off showing how angry he was that the person hadnt accepted the decision of huzoor sallalhu alai hiwasallam.

At that very time jibrael alai hissalaam was sent and a wahi came, you cant be a beleiver until u accept the prophet sallalhu alai hi wasallam in every way.

This shows that all the prophets are never wrong because at that time people started to say Umar radiallahu anhu has killed a muslim, But allah was so happy with him that the wahi was sent.

This is also a message to the people that do ghustaqi as it shows nothing should be doubted when huzoor sallalhu alai hi wasallam makes a decision. The man who was beheaded also prayed 5 times a day he also prayed the kalima, but the most important thing is aqeedah.

[technocore]

Salam o Alikum everyone,

 A very interesting question and even more interesting answers. I am amazed. The book of Allah (SWT) tells us to follow the Prophet (SAW) in all matters and offcourse Allah (SWT) cannot error (regarless of different aqeeda's). Yet when it comes to such ahadeeth, it seems (appears to be) like, all efforts are to defend the hadeeth and the sahih's inspite the fact that they clearly go against Quran.

Mostly here are trying to explain and justify the "alleged" actions of the Prophet (SAW). To a person with out knowldge on islam, it would appear sahih's are the word of Allah (SWT) and Quran is only to justify them - nauzbillah.

With great respect to scholars like Imam Muslim and Bukhari (RA) who tried their utmost to conslidate correct ahadeeth, the margin for error still remains. Please do not elevate their noble work to compete with Quran.

If i am not mistaken, it was our Master (SAW) himself who said to judge ahadeeth based on Quran and discard the ones that go against it ... ?

[sirf_musalman]

Assalamualaikum,
A sin is a kind of mistake. If a mistake is big enough only then it will be considered a sin. So even Hazrat Adam's (a.s.) mistake, would not be considered a sin, since all Rusul of Allah are sinless. However, we know that Anbiya of Allah can make mistakes, such as that of Hazrat Adam (a.s.) as mentioned so many times in the Quran. So since Rasulallah(s.a.w.) was among the Anbiya of Allah, the belief that he cannot possibly make any mistake is incorrect. Minor mistakes that he made are referred to in the Quran. For example:

(Part of a long Hadith):... The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said to Abu Bakr and 'Umar (Allah be pleased with them): What is your opinion about these captives? Abu Bakr said: They are our kith and kin. I think you should release them after getting from them a ransom. This will be a source of strength to us against the infidels. It is quite possible that Allah may guide them to Islam. Then the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: What is your opinion. Ibn Khattab? He said: Messenger of Allah. I do not hold the same opinion as Abu Bakr. I am of the opinion that you should hand them over to us so that we may cut off their heads. Hand over 'Aqil to 'Ali that he may cut off his head, and hand over such and such relative to me that I may but off his head. They are leaders of the disbelievers and veterans among them. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) approved the opinion of Abu Bakr and did not approve what I said The next day when I came to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), I found that both he and Abu Bakr were sitting shedding tears. I said: Messenger of Allah, why are you and your Companion shedding tears? Tell me the reason. For I will weep ate, if not, I will at least pretend to weep in sympathy with you. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I weep for what has happened to your companions for taking ransom (from the prisoners). I was shown the torture to which they were subjected. It was brought to me as close as this tree. (He pointed to a tree close to him.) Then God revealed the verse:" It is not befitting for a prophet that he should take prisoners until the force of the disbelievers has been crushed..." to the end of the verse:" so eat ye the spoils of war, (it is) lawful and pure. So Allah made booty lawful for them."

Rasulullah(s.a.w.) made an error in judgement, in that while his decision was correct according to the Sharia'h revealed until then, but the judgement that Allah would have favoured was the other one. In no way does this instance decrease the status of Rasulullah(s.a.w.) as the Imam of the Anbiya, it only highlights what Allah tells us in the Quran, that he was a human being like us:

12:109 (Y. Ali) Nor did We send before thee (as apostles) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations...

It is important that we adjust our beliefs according to the Quran and Sunnah and not let our personal beliefs or wishes come in their way. I would love to believe that Rasulullah(s.a.w.) was "spotless" in that he never ever made any mistake. But the best way to love Rasulullah(s.a.w.) would be to follow him, without thinking whether it is in accordance with my personal ideas or wishes or the ideas of society or science or anyone else. Allah has warned us about believing that something is part of the Book of Allah without actually knowing:

78. And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. (Al Baqarah)

May Allah allow us all to quench our personal wishes and follow his orders to our fullest extent. Amin.

Assalamualaikum

[seeker]

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technocore (15.06.2009)

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Salam o Alikum everyone,

A very interesting question and even more interesting answers. I am amazed. The book of Allah (SWT) tells us to follow the Prophet (SAW) in all matters and offcourse Allah (SWT) cannot error (regarless of different aqeeda's). Yet when it comes to such ahadeeth, it seems (appears to be) like, all efforts are to defend the hadeeth and the sahih's inspite the fact that they clearly go against Quran.

Mostly here are trying to explainand justify the "alleged" actions of the Prophet (SAW). To a person with out knowldge on islam, it would appear sahih's are the word of Allah (SWT) and Quran isonly to justify them - nauzbillah.

With great respect to scholars like Imam Muslim and Bukhari (RA) who tried their utmost to conslidate correct ahadeeth, the margin for error still remains. Please do not elevate their noble work to compete with Quran.

If i am not mistaken, it was our Master (SAW) himself who said to judge ahadeeth based on Quran and discard the ones that go against it ... ?

Did Imam Bukhari (ra) and Imam Muslim (ra) have a mistake in their aqeedah then? Did THEY believe that Rasulullah (salAllahu alayhi wasallam) said this? They are both of a higher rank than any of my teachers so it puzzles me as to why I should follow anybody here and not them two!

On the other hand it goes against everything I believe to accept any question of a mistake on the part of the Messenger of God (salAllahu alayhi wasallam).

How to reconcile!

For now I am just in the "I don't know" phase but to suggest that these Sahih hadiths can be wrong throws all of our hadith science into question.

How then can we be sure about ANY hadith if Sahih Muslim and Bukhari contains mistakes!? It's a very serious matter!

[technocore]

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seeker (29.12.2009)

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technocore (15.06.2009)

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Salam o Alikum everyone,

A very interesting question and even more interesting answers. I am amazed. The book of Allah (SWT) tells us to follow the Prophet (SAW) in all matters and offcourse Allah (SWT) cannot error (regarless of different aqeeda's). Yet when it comes to such ahadeeth, it seems (appears to be) like, all efforts are to defend the hadeeth and the sahih's inspite the fact that they clearly go against Quran.

Mostly here are trying to explainand justify the "alleged" actions of the Prophet (SAW). To a person with out knowldge on islam, it would appear sahih's are the word of Allah (SWT) and Quran isonly to justify them - nauzbillah.

With great respect to scholars like Imam Muslim and Bukhari (RA) who tried their utmost to conslidate correct ahadeeth, the margin for error still remains. Please do not elevate their noble work to compete with Quran.

If i am not mistaken, it was our Master (SAW) himself who said to judge ahadeeth based on Quran and discard the ones that go against it ... ?

Did Imam Bukhari (ra) and Imam Muslim (ra) have a mistake in their aqeedah then? Did THEY believe that Rasulullah (salAllahu alayhi wasallam) said this? They are both of a higher rank than any of my teachers so it puzzles me as to why I should follow anybody here and not them two!

On the other hand it goes against everything I believe to accept any question of a mistake on the part of the Messenger of God (salAllahu alayhi wasallam).

How to reconcile!

For now I am just in the "I don't know" phase but to suggest that these Sahih hadiths can be wrong throws all of our hadith science into question.

How then can we be sure about ANY hadith if Sahih Muslim and Bukhari contains mistakes!? It's a very serious matter!

Salam O Alikum Brothers,

Quran says to Obey Allah (SWT) and obey the messenger and those invested with authority from amongst you.

Nowhere in this ayet or any other ayet in Quran did Allah (SWT) limit obediance to the prophet (saw) to religious affairs only. Allah (SWT) has made "the messenger"'s obediance equalent to his own. And as Allah (SWT)'s obediance is binding in all areas of life weather related to religion or otherwise, so is the Prophet (SAW)'s obediance compulsory.

Now what has been sanctioned protection from the mighty creator, Sahih's or Quran. The Imams of hadeeth did their utmost of keep the hadeeths correct but are not masoom nor protected against mistakes. They are historians and therefore need to rely on their methodologies to judge between right and wrong, weather they agree with the results of not. It might be that the incident is correct but the wording or some areas of it might have been incorrectly relyed (after all it was all comming from memorization).

No creation is absolutely perfect and thats the difference between Creator and the creation. Our beloved Prophet (SAW) was not error-proof as after all he was a human being but Allah (SWT) clearly mentions in Quran that his prophets are protected by him under all conditions. It is not a personal ability but the will of the God, therefore, I don't know why people have problem to dijust it.

 

[Fekay]

So what do the alha sunnat wa jammat conclude about this issue.

[moiznus]

ASAK Brothers,

Its a good thing that we are discussing a very relevant point here, but for me what ever is logically believable - is ISLAM. Non of the things in the Quran or Hadith is illogical...hence to believe that what the Prophet Muhammad (Sallalla hu alai hi wasallam) has said is wrong is illogical. But to believe that this hadith could have been heard or passed on wrong is more possible after all with all due respect to all the 4 Imams who spend their lifes finding this info for us is creditable and may Allah shower his blessing upon them...were after all human beings and to err is human. On the other hand Prohet Muhammad (Sallalla hu alai hi wasallam) was human and Noor Allah, what ever came out of his mouth after the Nabuwat was said by the will of Allah (Quran says that) and whatever he said before Nabuwat was never wrong...if u read his Personality Books, not a single person ever denied him to be a man of his word and his word was never wrong...... hence firstly lets Believe in Allah, His Quran and his Prophet can never be wrong and thats IMAN.......everything else is subjected to error............

Jazzak Allah,

Muhammad ki Ulfat Badi Cheez hai, Khuda De yeh Daulat Badi Cheez Hai....Ameen.......

[Abdullah2]

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Zakir Khan (09.12.2007)

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Nabi was sinless and free from mistakes as far as I know; so im not sure..

Well according to the above hadith (I have been shown others aswell), the prophet was perfect in his deen and not perfect in every which way. Only Allah (SWT) is perfect in every single way, but the Prophet is perfect in his deen. We cant just reject those hadith and ayat above, also I have been told to read Surah 80 or 81 (I havent done yet), but it explains that the prophet does have human flaws.

Only a few days ago I used to believe the Prophet was absolutly perfect in every way, but after been shown that he isn't, I have had to change my thoughts. According to Quran and Hadith he was mashallah perfect in his deen.

[junaidrafique2007]

AA

Not a big deal at all really.  It's a personal ijtehad of dunya and there are other instances of this as well where the Prophet would not speak on behalf of Allah or it was a matter away from Deen.

As Muslims we are not permitted to pursue these matters and make conclusions based on what little we know.  This is because Allah says "Say, if you love Allah follow me and Allah will love you".

This is a general statement and applicable to both deen and dunya.  Regardless of the intention of the Prophet if you follow his instruction in both you will earn a reward even if you are at a loss in dunya you will earn the love of Allah and a reward in the hereafter.

This approach is safer for your imaan.

WS

[junaidrafique2007]

Bismillahir Rahman nir RahimAssalatu Wassalamu alaika Ya Rasool Allah

AA

Nothing befits a man in either world except for humility and manners and when Imam Malik's mother took her son to gain knowledge she told him "learn manners before knowledge".

The fact that Imam Muslim records the hadith is testimony to the fact that we of Ahle Sunnah have never shied away from such narrations, yet we have categorised them and understood them only in the manner that befits the majesty and dignity of the noble Messenger of Allah (peace and blessing be upon him).

The Prophet was always occupiedwith the message of the afterlife, he rarely spoke about this life.  This is an instance where he did.  It must be understood therefore in light ofthis.

 

His prophet hood is testimonyto this fact that he was always concerned about the hereafter for hisfollowers:

 

Allah says “Oh Prophet we havesent you as a witness, a bringer of good news and a warner”

 

This whole verse sums up thetotality of the Prophet’s mission and each description (witness, bringer ofgood news and a warner) is in reference to the hereafter.

 

from ’Aa‘ishah -radiyallaahu ’anhaa - that the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said,“An angel came to me and said: Allah sends blessings upon you and says: If you wish you may be a Prophet-King ora Slave-Messenger. So Jibeel - ’alayhis-salaam - indicated to me that Ishould humble myself: So I said: A Prophet-Slave.” So ’Aa‘ishah said: So afterthat day, the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) never ate whilstreclining, saying, “I eat like a slave eats and I sit like a slave sits.”  (classified as hassan and baghawi recorded it)

 

The Hadith shows thatthe Prophet did not want any part of this world and is reflected by His messagethroughout his noble life.  He wasoffered the keys to this world and everything it contained yet he refused.  He chose humility and the afterlife.

 

Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab: Abu Hurairasaid that Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with 'Jawami-al-Kalim '(the shortest expression with the widest meaning) and have been made victoriouswith awe (cast in my enemy's hearts), and while I was sleeping, I saw that the keys of the treasures ofthe world were placed in my hand." (Bukhari)

 

The scholars are unanimous that the Prophetchose to be a slave messenger over a king Prophet in light of the above eventhough Allah gave Him the choice yet he declined.

 

In light of the Hadith posted by SunniRevolution, it is clear that this instance is a rare one where the Prophetspeaks about something wordly.  In thisinstance he has a choice of whether to speak on behalf of Allah and give somebeneficial advice for the hereafter, speak about the incident without any suchadvice or speak about the incident with knowledge of this world that he was given. He chooses to speak about the incidentwithout any advice as a Prophet but as a person of this world.

 

Now let’s examine the knowledge of the Prophetin light of the above argument I have made and in light of the hadith cited bySunni Revolution about this instance.

 

There is a strong opinion backed by primarysource evidence that the Prophet had knowledge of everything.  Every knowledge was folded up and was pouredinto the noble heart of the Prophet (saw).  This knowledge was not infinite and was a oneof limits which the scholars agree can be changed by Allah if he wishes (thatis to say that the knowledge can be increased).

 

There is nothing to say that the Prophet didnot have knowledge of the creation of Allah and this world.  Let’s examine this now.

 

And Allah has revealed to you the Book andwisdom and has taught you that whichyou did not know (surah 4:113)

The scholars argue that this verse is proofthat the Prophet (saw) had knowledge of everything since if I ask a person “whatdon’t you know” you will say “there is so much I don’t know that you couldargue I actually don’t know anything” and if I then asked a person “if Isomeone teaches you what you didn’t know, will that amount to everything” thenwhat will be his response?

 

The hadith clarify this even further:

 

Bukhari records a hadith where the Prophetinformed the Sahaba about EVERYTHING that will happen until the day ofjudgement.

 

Tabaraninarrates that Ibn `Umar _

saidthat the Prophet _ said, “TrulyAllah displayed the world to me, so I gazed upon it and upon the creatures inthem up until the Day of Judgement.It is as if I gazed at everything.”

 

Bukharinarrated by Asma bint Abu Bakr who narrated that the

Prophet_ said, “There is nothing that Ihave not seen from this place of mine, even Heaven andhell.”

 

Ihave seen my Lord in the most wonderful of forms. Allah said, “Oh

Muhammad.”I said, “I am at your service and disposal.” “Do you know what the

highestchiefs were disputing over?” I said, “I do not know, oh Lord.” Then he

puthis hand between my shoulder blades until I felt coolness in my chest, then

everything wasrevealed to me and I knew. (Musnad Ahmed and Tirmidhi)

 

Itis because of the above hadith cited by Imam Ahmed (Allah placed his handbetween my shoulder blades) that the scholars agree that all the hadith thatmention the Prophet (saw) having all knowledge except 5 was abrogated at apoint by Allah and the Prophet (saw) did not leave this world except that hisknowledge included everything including the 5.

 

Nowlet’s go back to the hadith cited by Sunni Revolution in light of all that Ihave stated.

 

Thehadith are understood as an incident that took place and the words of theProphet do not denote that he had no knowledge about it.  They are clearly understood that the Prophetdid not want to access his knowledge because the incident was of monetarybenefit and related to this world only.  He was concerned with Akhira and not dunya andwas not inclined to grant help to his followers when this world was mentioned.  He therefore would refrain.  Where there are instances in the books of Himhelping people with wealth or his making dua, these are where help was soughtand people asked him.  In this instancehe made a comment and was not asked.

 

Sowe say, there are very very few instances where the Prophet made a remark aboutthis world only.  Where he made such aremark he would not speak from accessing knowledge that was clearly at hisdisposal EVEN THOUGH HE COULD IF HE WANTED TO.  

 

Whenthe Prophet’s knowledge is concerned we say the following:

 

Heeither discloses it if it is of benefit in the hereafter.

Hediscloses it because of Allah’s command.

Heremains silent because he is not allowed to speak about it.

Hedoes not want to speak about it even though he is allowed and has knowledge ofit

Hespeaks about it and it is of wordly benefit only  he and does not access knowledge which is athis disposal.

 Thehadith spoken about in Muslim by Sunni Revolution are in the lastcategory.  They are not of any benefit tothe hereafter of the people concerned.  Theydid not request anything. The Prophet has knowledge at his disposal that hedoes not want to access because he is more attached to the hereafter forhimself and his followers.

 

AsImam Suyuti says in khasa’is al-kubra:“Some of them agreed that he was given the five knowledges aswell, knowledge of the hour, the spirit, yethe remained silent.”

Thus in conclusion, the hadith in Muslim and this incident(s) are proof that the Prophet was always concerned with guiding towards the hereafter.  They are very few in number.  They show that the Prophet (saw) did not want to access the knowledge of this incident because it was related to this world.

 Allah and His Messenger know best

WS

[Abdullah2]

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-THE-STUDENT- (26.01.2010)

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So what do the alha sunnat wa jammat conclude about this issue.

What I have gathered from this thread (from an open minded perspective) is that the Prophet was perfect in his deen, but not perfect in every single way, he does have human fallibilty.

Which is what other muslims around the world believe, who we call "Wahabbis".

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moiznus (06.04.2010)

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ASAK Brothers,

Its a good thing that we are discussing a very relevant point here, but for me what ever is logically believable - is ISLAM. Non of the things in the Quran or Hadith is illogical...hence to believe that what the Prophet Muhammad (Sallalla hu alai hi wasallam) has said is wrong is illogical. But to believe that this hadith could have been heard or passed on wrong is more possible after all with all due respect to all the 4 Imams who spend their lifes finding this info for us is creditable and may Allah shower his blessing upon them...were after all human beings and to err is human. On the other hand Prohet Muhammad (Sallalla hu alai hi wasallam) was human and Noor Allah, what ever came out of his mouth after the Nabuwat was said by the will of Allah (Quran says that) and whatever he said before Nabuwat was never wrong...if u read his Personality Books, not a single person ever denied him to be a man of his word and his word was never wrong...... hence firstly lets Believe in Allah, His Quran and his Prophet can never be wrong and thats IMAN.......everything else is subjected to error............

Jazzak Allah,

Muhammad ki Ulfat Badi Cheez hai, Khuda De yeh Daulat Badi Cheez Hai....Ameen.......

Lets not be narrow minded here. If this sahih hadith is stating the Prophet SAW is able to make human error, then it is true. If you want to disregard this hadith, you may aswell disregard the whole of Sahih Muslim, which is very unislamic.

[Abdullah2]

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There is a strong opinion backed by primarysource evidence that the Prophet had knowledge of everything.  Every knowledge was folded up and was pouredinto the noble heart of the Prophet (saw).  This knowledge was not infinite and was a oneof limits which the scholars agree can be changed by Allah if he wishes (thatis to say that the knowledge can be increased).

There is a strong opinion on this website and with us followers of barelvi beliefs, but others dont see this evidence of the prophet having knowledge of everything.

I have been shown these by people, and more;

In the day when Allah gathereth together the messengers, and saith: What was your response (from mankind)? they say: We have no knowledge. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden, [5:109]

 

Say (O Muhammad, to the disbelievers): I say not unto you (that) I possess the treasures of Allah, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen; and I say not unto you: Lo! I am an angel. I follow only that which is inspired in me. Say: Are the blind man and the seer equal? Will ye not then take thought? [6:50]

 

I say not unto you: "I have the treasures of Allah" nor "I have knowledge of the Unseen," nor say I: "Lo! I am an angel!" Nor say I unto those whom your eyes scorn that Allah will not give them good - Allah knoweth best what is in their hearts - Lo! then indeed I should be of the wrong-doers. [11:31]

 

Say (O Muhammad): None in the heavens and the earth knoweth the Unseen save Allah; and they know not when they will be raised (again). [27:65]

 

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There is nothing to say that the Prophet didnot have knowledge of the creation of Allah and this world.  Let’s examine this now.

 

Im sure this is just a mistake, but Allah was not created. 

 

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And Allah has revealed to you the Book andwisdom and has taught you that whichyou did not know (surah 4:113)


The scholars argue that this verse is proofthat the Prophet (saw) had knowledge of everything since if I ask a person “whatdon’t you know” you will say “there is so much I don’t know that you couldargue I actually don’t know anything” and if I then asked a person “if Isomeone teaches you what you didn’t know, will that amount to everything” thenwhat will be his response?

Again this is regarding deen not all worldly knowledge. At the time we did not know about our deen and it was taught to us, so now Alhamdullillah we embrace Islam.

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Tabaraninarrates that Ibn `Umar _

saidthat the Prophet _ said, “TrulyAllah displayed the world to me, so I gazed upon it and upon the creatures inthem up until the Day of Judgement.It is as if I gazed at everything.”

Do you know what a similie is?

Also, read surah 80, the proofs I get from some people seem to easily overshadow the so called "proofs", when in light of all the ayats together, when approached with an open mind, they are clearly taken out of context, and from an uneducated view, such as the simile above

[junaidrafique2007]

AA
Sorry I've answered the post by saying the Prophet had knowledge of this world but his preference is the hereafter and did not choose to access this knowledge for this reason.  If he wanted to, he would have and could have but did not want to or feel the need to because it was related to this world.
As for the verses you quote about the Prophet's knowledge well they are all explained by these two verses (tafseer quran bil quran):

"He (Allah the Almighty) alone is the Knower of the Unseen; He does not make anyone acquainted with the mysteries except the apostle whom He has chosen." (Surah Jinn: Verse 26)  
"Allah will not disclose to you the secret of the unknown, but He chooses of His apostles whom He pleases." (Surah Ale Imran: Verse 179) 
As for statements in the hadith such as "you have more knowlege in matters of this world than me" indicate that the Prophet is not concerned with worldy things, they are a statement of humility and do not prove that the knowledge of the Prophet is incomplete.They are taken like other statements such as "he who says I am better than Jonah bin Matta has told a lie" and other hadith that we should not make distinction between the Prophets.  They do not prove the knowledge of the Prophet but only indicate his preference for the afterlife.
There are two ways to look at the Prophet, negatively and find fault (the door of guidance is then closed), or positively with the correct understanding and manners (elevation of ranks).  You have free choice, my advice is to use it carefully.
As Suyuti says others have agreed that the knowlege of everything and the 5 were given to the Prophet (saw) and there is an argument that supports it which I have highlighted.
You are not a kaafir if you do not accept that the Prophet had knowlege of everything, but there is a strand of scholars who do accept this view. Don't rebuke them or criticise, but follow what you believe is correct sincerely.
WS

[Abdullah2]

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As for the verses you quote about the Prophet's knowledge well they are all explained by these two verses (tafseer quran bil quran):

"He (Allah the Almighty) alone is the Knower of the Unseen; He does not make anyone acquainted with the mysteries except the apostle whom He has chosen." (Surah Jinn: Verse 26)  
"Allah will not disclose to you the secret of the unknown, but He chooses of His apostles whom He pleases." (Surah Ale Imran: Verse 179) 

 These quotes do not display that the total knowledge of the unseen is given to the Prophet SAW. They are saying are saying Allah reveals the secrets to whom he wishes, not everything unknown, but particular things. The prophet SAW had vastly more knowledge than any of us followers, I dont think anybody debates that. Of course, we all have knowledge of the unseen which is revealed unto us through the revelation of The Quran and the hadith and what many prophets have told us. Also, if you believe the prophet has total knowledge of the unseen, you are refusing the ayats I have shown which clearly states the prophet not having all knowledge of the unseen, but only what Allah wanted him to know (Way more than us, but not everything) 

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Say (O Muhammad, to the disbelievers): I say not unto you (that) I possess the treasures of Allah, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen; and I say not unto you: Lo! I am an angel. I follow only that which is inspired in me. Say: Are the blind man and the seer equal? Will ye not then take thought? [6:50]  I say not unto you: "I have the treasures of Allah" nor "I have knowledge of the Unseen," nor say I: "Lo! I am an angel!" Nor say I unto those whom your eyes scorn that Allah will not give them good - Allah knoweth best what is in their hearts - Lo! then indeed I should be of the wrong-doers. [11:31] Say (O Muhammad): None in the heavens and the earth knoweth the Unseen save Allah; and they know not when they will be raised (again). [27:65]

 These are fairly clear cut, straight translations from the Quran. Nobody can deny these ayats.   

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There are two ways to look at the Prophet, negatively and find fault (the door of guidance is then closed), or positively with the correct understanding and manners (elevation of ranks).  You have free choice, my advice is to use it carefully.

 I haven't gone about my thoughts in a negative way. Im looking at 2 sides of the story and one is clearly more authentic as it has the quran and sunnah backing it, with MANY proofs of CLEAR, SIMPLE Ayats.  There are 2 ways to look at the Prophet. Have the respect for him and love for him to listen to what he preached and practiced, and what Allah said about him. Or we can make things up and twist a few ayats and just ignore/reject the many ayats that go against it. 

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You are not a kaafir if you do not accept that the Prophet had knowlege of everything, but there is a strand of scholars who do accept this view. Don't rebuke them or criticise, but follow what you believe is correct sincerely.

I am not a kaafir if you tell me I am for beliveing in the Quran. Dont even mention that word in this discussion, quick to start with the Takfir gun....Pop Pop!!, Sorry mate, those bullets dont hurt me, I have shown the Quranic verses protecting those beliefs :cool: