[DrTous]

sory moderator,i did not knew it.

What would be the pre-requisites of a Shaafi Imaam for a predominantly Hanafi jamaat?

The Shaafi'i Imam must allow for the rules pertaining to the Hanafi Musallees, if not there Namaaz will not be done behind him.

taken from.http://www.noori.org/queries.html
I will research more about it.

[fayaz-halai]

Originally posted by:Sher-e-Raza Z
Just shows how people within the Hanafi Fiqh like to demand others to follow a specific rule, without guidance from the traditional texts of the masters of Hanafi Fiqh.

Brother i dont see anyone demanding people to follow something.MashaAllah authentic references are given for the diffrences.


Originally posted by:Sher-e-Raza Z
In Bahar-e-Shari'ah, it also says that there are three conditions for when it is allowed to perform Salah behind a Shafa'i Imam.

One should understand that these are just conditions and not demand.

One is he must not be a Muta'assib Shafa'i (Someone who slanders the Hanafi Imam and his followers).

Absolutely true.It also refers to every Imam no matter following any Madhab.

Second is that the Imam must fulfill the necessities of the Hanafi Mazhab in Taharah (which includes the masah and the rule regarding if the imam bleeds during salah in a way that the blood flows onto the outer body).

That is what i told in my earlier post.So this is a condition.People should not think that this is disunity or demand.

The third i cannot remember. Maybe someone can check and let us know, it's in Imaamat Ka Bayaan.

Originally posted by:Sher-e-Raza Z
Alaa Hazrat writes in his Fatawa that one can perform behind them in asr and Isha' if the Hanafi time has not yet entered, however, he must perform it again when the time enters.

In this way, one will not miss the barakah of performing behind Great Shafa'i Scholars  in congregation and will also perform correctly according to his own mazhab when repeated.

I dont understand this but i dont deny.Brother are you quoting from Aala Hazrat Fatawa or writing in your own words what you heard.Please if you can give the page no or jild no?

[hassanm]

Originally posted by: Fayaz Halai

Originally posted by:Sher-e-Raza ZJust shows how people within the Hanafi Fiqh like to demand others to follow a specific rule, without guidance from the traditional texts of the masters of Hanafi Fiqh.Brother i dont see anyone demanding people to follow something.MashaAllah authentic references are given for the diffrences.Originally posted by:Sher-e-Raza ZIn Bahar-e-Shari'ah, it also says that there are three conditions for when it is allowed to perform Salah behind a Shafa'i Imam. One should understand that these are just conditions and not demand.One is he must not be a Muta'assib Shafa'i (Someone who slanders the Hanafi Imam and his followers). Absolutely true.It also refers to every Imam no matter following any Madhab.Second is that the Imam must fulfill the necessities of the Hanafi Mazhab in Taharah (which includes the masah and the rule regarding if the imam bleeds during salah in a way that the blood flows onto the outer body). That is what i told in my earlier post.So this is a condition.People should not think that this is disunity or demand.The third i cannot remember. Maybe someone can check and let us know, it's in Imaamat Ka Bayaan.Originally posted by:Sher-e-Raza ZAlaa Hazrat writes in his Fatawa that one can perform behind them in asr and Isha' if the Hanafi time has not yet entered, however, he must perform it again when the time enters.In this way, one will not miss the barakah of performing behind Great Shafa'i Scholars  in congregation and will also perform correctly according to his own mazhab when repeated. I dont understand this but i dont deny.Brother are you quoting from Aala Hazrat Fatawa or writing in your own words what you heard.Please if you can give the page no or jild no?

mashaa allah, good answers brother fayza and sis sadia. well, ti is true, A hanafi cant pray behind shafii if shafii imam dont fulfill the necessities of the Hanafi Mazhab, for exaple, maseha and prayer timing.

brother fayz, if you look back on page 2 sis sadia has attached some pages from this book which also include imamat ka byan. Pleas read them

[fayaz-halai]

Yes brother i have read it.......

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

I see idea's in this thread which remind me of a time in the Islamic period of ignorance where there was a Hanafi 'mufti' called 'mufti ath thaqalayn' who issues a fatwa that Hanafi men can marry Shaafi'i women because the Shaafi'i women are like Ahlul Kitaab but a Hanafi woman cannot marry a Shaafi'i man! To pick out two issues, Masah and Timing is pretty pointless because there are so many other issues that are different that can invalidate Prayer in another Madhab, so taking the view that has been given from Sheikh Turab ul Haq has given it practically means no Hanafi can pray behind someone of another Madhab. Doesn't anybody else find that a bit worrying?

[DrTous]

can u please provide this fatwa brother Mansur, plz

I will search more about it

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

It's on the previous page Sister.

[fayaz-halai]

Brother i cannot find the Fatwa on the previous page can u plz post again...

"who issues a fatwa that Hanafi men can marry Shaafi'i women because the Shaafi'i women are like Ahlul Kitaab but a Hanafi woman cannot marry a Shaafi'i man! "

[DrTous]

Brother fayaz, I could not find this fatwa anywhere and now I have just write a mail to Shah Turabul haq qadri saheb. Inshallah he will answer my question in few days. So I will put his Fatwa/answer here.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother Fayaz i was talking about the one by Sheikh Turabul Haq. The one about marriage i have in one of my books about the different periods of Fiqh i'll have to have a look through them inshaaAllah, but i know that the 'mufti' was nicknamed mufti ath thaqalayn.

[fayaz-halai]

Brother I even asked questions regarding Namaaz behind Shafi Imam under some conditions to a Mufti Saheb(I dont know the name of the Mufti) on www.faizaneattar.netand he too gave the same answer as Hazrat Turab ul haq Qadri.

Same ruling by Mufti Saheb on the above given website.
Same ruling by Hazrat Turab ul Haq Qadri
Same ruling in Bahare Shariat.

Just because you cant understand Urdu i will translate it what i asked Mufti Saheb,

Q.Can a Hanafi read namaaz behind Shafi Imam if the time for Asr according to Hanafis has not started?

Ans:Unless the time for Asr according to Hanafi Madhab has not started,a hanafi cannot read Namaaz behind Shafi Imam.He can pray behind him if he prays when the time for Hanafis have started.

Q.Is namaaz valid behind a Shafi Imam if he does not perform Masah in wudu according to Hanafis?

Ans:No,the namaaz is not valid.If the Imam does wudu according to the Hanafis then one can pray behind him.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Ya Sidi, it doesn't matter if one Scholar, two Scholars or a hundred Scholars hold the view, i still find it worrying. The Sahaabah r.a. had different views, did They r.a. ever refuse to Pray behind each other? Well i've never come across anything that suggest so, so why do people nowadays think they can give Fatawaa stopping one Muslim praying behind another?

[DrTous]

Brother fayaz, It is same rulling which shah turabul haq qadri has described.

[fayaz-halai]

 

Then why do even follow a particular Madhab?

If hanafi dont read Durood in Qadah,it is fine.But for Shafi it is wajib(If i m not wrong brother).Was it wajib for Sahabas or not?DId all the Sahabis followed this particular ruling?Then why do people makes it wajib,forcing people to read it compulsary?

Brother no one is blindly stoping people to pray.These are rulings which are there in each madhab. 

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother, the Sahaabah r.a. had different opinions on what is Fardh, Waajib and Sunnah, but They r.a. all Prayed behind each other. I don't see why we can't when we're all supposed to be following Their example.

[mubzy101]

Originally posted by: Mansur Alam

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,


Brother, the Sahaabah r.a. had different opinions on what is Fardh, Waajib and Sunnah, but They r.a. all Prayed behind each other. I don't see why we can't when we're all supposed to be following Their example.

Assalamu'alaykum....

brother, you may be offended by this (probably will be)...but you're are clearly talking like an AHLE-HADITH (i.e Ghair MUqallid/Salaf) i know....! These are the exact types of arguments he brings forward!

Examples, AHLE SUNNA WAL JAMAT (*****) SAYS: NAMAZ I MAKROOHE TAHRIMI WHEN PRAYED WITH HALF SLEEVES....!

AHLE HADITH GUY SAYS:WELL WHO SAID

 AHLE SUNNA WAL JAMAT (*****) SAYS: THE GREAT IMAM AZAM.....(REHMATULLAHI ALAIH)

AHLE HADITH STATES:WHICH HADITH IS IT IN ?...DID THE PROPHET SAY..!!!

this is the typical type of discussion that goes on... ....! Remember....you will not find every makrooh/disliked acts mentioned in AHADITH...!


Please just leave the in depth discussions to the AKAABIR....! or you may confuse yourself. Alternatively, speak to a fully qualified and a well-known AALIM OR MUFTI SAHB, who can discuss these topics with you.

In regards to our Ulemas answer regarding praying behind a shafi'i....
well if you look at my post in page 1....i have already stated exactly according to the answers by hazrat shah turabul haq qadri (DAMAT BARKATUHUM)...
heres the quote::::

a hanafi should not pray behind a shafi'i unless he is absolute certain that  time has started for the namaz being prayed ...and secondly he should be certain that the imam has done wuzu according to the sunnat tareeqa eg,, doing full masa of the head...etc...! #


JAZAKALLAH...

(sorry for the capital letters, i realised halfway through!) too bad!

[NC1]

Mansur I can see where your coming from, and have to say I too worry about what your worrying about....

Im a Hanafi, my Sheikh Ustaad and Murrabi is a Shafai. I pray behind him when I get the opportunity it does not matter to him nor me, In fact I have more hope of my salaah being accepted behind him.

I once attended a spiritual retreat which lasted about 48 hours, the brothers there about 150 odd were mainly Hanafi's and there Shaykh from India was the main speaker/teacher at the event, needless to say he led all the Salaat, However there was a small contingent of about 20 of his mureeds who happened to be Shafai. At Fajr time with the Shaykhs permission they did there own Jamaat !!!  I could not beleive it ...there we were we prayed, learnt ate, and slept together for all those hours yet they had to do their own Fajr Jamaat (as Shafai Fajr as Qunoot in it...)

I'm sure this is not the way its meant to be ??? Im sure there should be Harmony in our Fiqh, especially in 2007 where we regularly come across Muqallid's of other Imaam's as long as they are of  Aqidah-e-Ahle Sunnah we should pray with them.

I know one thing If Huzoor Ghaus Paak Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilaani (Hambali)came to me in a dream and said lets do Jamat I would not bring up my Hanafi 'ism       

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

No Brother Mubarak i am not talking like a wobblie. I am providing a clear example that the Sahaabah r.a. had different opinions from which the Madhaahib actually formed but they all prayed behind each other. Hanafi's (with dispensation), Shaafi'is (with encouraged dispensation), Hanbali's and Maaliki's all say to pray behind each other but it is only recently i have come across this position within the Hanafi Madhab. Instead of criticising my question Brother how about you get an answer for it because it is perfectly valid.

Brother Khaaqi alhamdulillah you have the same concerns because i was beginning to get even more worried that no one seems to be that bothered by it. Brother are you saying the Shaafi'is formed their own Jama'ah?

[Sher-e-Raza]

Sahabah did dispute and did different Jama'ah for Salah Al-Asr. They just had a different understanding of the saying of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

I can't exactly remember the Hadeeth, it was that the Prophet (peace be upon him) sent a group of Sahabah and told them to perform Asr Salah when they reach such and such a place. On the way the time for Asr entered and some of them performed and the others didn't. they believed it was not valid because the Prophet (peace be upon him) told us to perform Asr when we reach such and such a place. So they did. When the Prophet (peace be upon him) was informed He (peace be upon him) replied they are both valid and correct.

Someone please get the Hadeeth for us.

That should make things easy to understand.

Brother Fayaz Hala'i, the quote from Fatawa Razawiyyah i think i read in the Hajj section. If i find it i'll give you the complete reference.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother Sher that was a specific context which doesn't have anything to do with the two different times for reading 'Asr between the Madhaahib. The Hadith had to do with a specific location not time. Is there any evidence for two Jama'ahs being held after Rasulullah s.a.w. by the Sahaabah r.a.?