[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother Fayaz, i'm sorry but something you said is wrong. The Shaafi'i Imaam does not have to do Masah according to the Hanafi's and I find it pretty strange that you're requesting him to. The Imaam completes his Wudhu and Prayer according to his own Madhab and that is valid for the followers no matter what Madhab they are. There are other issues which are different in Wudhu my Brother so how do you know whether he has performed them according to the Hanafi way. It's impossible to do that and would cause so much disunity ma'adhAllah. I provided the answer of Sheikh Faraz Rabbani haafidhahullah regarding the ruling of the Hanafi School and here is one from Reliance of the Traveller according to the Shaafi'i Madhab:

f12.29 It is valid for a Shafi`i to follow the leadership of an imam who follows a different school of jurisprudence whenever the follower is not certain that the imam has omitted an obligatory element of the prayer, though if certain the imam has omitted one, it is not valid to follow him. The validity is based solely on the belief of the follower as to whether or not something obligatory has been omitted. (N: One should mention the position of the Malikis and Hanbalis here, which is that the criterion for the validity of following the imam is the imam's school of jurisprudence, such that if his prayer is valid in his own school, it is permissible to follow him as imam. How close this is to the spirit of the Law, which strives for Muslim unity.)

Brother Fayaz, the Hanafi and Shaafi'i position is therefore the same that the Imaams Prayer must be valid according to one's own School however as it is stated in Reliance and by Sheikh Faraz and the position followed by every single Hanafi and Shaafi'i Scholar I have ever met is that dispensation is taken in the Hanbali and Maaliki position stated above because it is one of unity.

Also, like i said before, why should someone miss out on the reward of Praying in Jama'ah over a Madhab issue? A Hanafi can take dispensation in the Shaafi'i Madhab and Pray at the Shaafi'i time.

Walhamdulillahi Rabbil 'alameen.

[fayaz-halai]

I understand what are you trying to say brother but where is the question of Disunity because where are we divided?

All the Madhabs are on Haq.The difference between them is not disunity between them.

Well brother I will do more research on it and get back to you.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother I don't know where you live but i see much disunity around here especially from 'Hanafi only everyone else is wahabbi' ignorants. Also, i think there would be much more disunity if people start saying i can't prayind behind you if you're from a different Madhab. I remember the story of one of the promiment Scholars whose name i can't remember, He was of one Madhab and was Praying behind a Maaliki Imaam, someone said to Him how could he pray behind the Maaliki when they don't recite Basmala and that is intergral to His (The Scholar's) Madhab. The Scholar got angry and replied, why should i not Pray behind Imaam Maalik and His Students and made the point that all Madhaahib are on Haqq and you can pray behind any other Madhab. SubhaanAllah wabihamdih.

Walhamdulillahi Rabbil 'alameen.

[DrTous]

brother mansur Alom and Fayaz halai,ok,i have got something here. I have used 3 hour on net to find it out.I hope this wil help too much. Here is a page of a book bahar-e-shariat and a answer from maulana shah turab ul haq qadri.He answering this problem.it is 1:15 min.
The page from bahare shariat is about witar behind shafii madhheb. Read  masla 12.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Sorry i dont' speak urdu, perhaps you can translate it inshaaAllah.

[fayaz-halai]

MashaAllah sister good job and it clears the doubt and Hazrat Turab ul Haq Qadri  saheb also said the same thing what i have posted. 

I said which is exactly what Hazrat is telling.

Well regarding Asr namaaz then a Hanafi can pray behind a Shafi only if it is the time for Asr for Hanafis as well.If the time for Asr has not started then a Hanafi cannot pray behind a Shafi.His namaaz will be invalid.He will have to pray when the time according to Hanafi starts.

One more point to be noted that the Masah in Wudu done by Shafi Imaaam should be according to Hanafi way otherwise the namaaz is not valid.We have a Shafi Imaam in masjid of Mahim Darga and he always does Masah like Hanafis because he knows that many Hanafis prays behind him coz there is majority of Hanafis over there.

[DrTous]

Yes brother Fayaz halai,U had right. Could u please translate it in english for brother Mansur Alom? now I undrstand the whole problem.
Brother fayaz, did u also read the image/page from book bahareshariat about witar?

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

No offence but i think it's very sad that a prominent Scholar is giving such as ruling whereas in Reliance of the Traveller, an authority book on Fiqh for the Shaafi'is it is written to take dispensation so that Muslim brothers and sisters from any Madhab can Pray behind each other. Alhamdulillah I have never met a Hanafi whether they be a Scholar of layman to take the position that has been given by Sheikh Turab ul Haq.

[DrTous]

yes brother mansur Alom it is not only shah turabul haq qadri but there are also in  bahara shariat about witar behind shafii. But if u are not satisfy so i will find out more about this isuue from different sites,inshallah. May ALLAH give us more knowlegde.amen

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

JazakAllah khair for the information you provided Ukhti fillah. I am satisfied that may be a position in the Hanafi Madhab but I am certain that it is not the position that most Hanafi's follow alhamdulillah.

[Kiran-Fatima]

As-salamu 'alaykum. Unfortunately, I think there is some confusion in the above. We should know that the Hanafi school has two positions, the mu'tamad of which is that 'asr begins when the shadow of an object is equal to twice its height plus the shadow at zawal. The other position, allowed by the Shaykhayn (Qadi Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad Ibn Hassan al-Shaybani, each of which was a complete mujtahid fi'l shar') is that the shadow needs to be only one length of the object plus its shadow at zawal. Hence the second position is identical to the other madhahib, including the Shafi'iyya. It is thus not talfiq (mixing madhahib) if you pray at so-called Shafi'i time, but simply rukhsah, i.e. following the lenient opinion within your own madhhab. Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Deholvi combined beautifully the two positions in the Hanafi madhhab in an explanation which shows his utter brilliance: he argued that the time of 'asr begins at one-shadow length (plus zawal shadow) for those who have prayed zuhr before that time. If you have not prayed zuhr you can pray it all the way up to two shadow length without it being qada, and at two shadow length the preferable time of 'asr begins. In other words, the time between one and two shadow length one can pray either zuhr or 'asr (depending on whether one has prayed zuhr), but not both, and the preferable is not to pray any, i.e. to pray zuhr before the one-shadow length and pray 'asr after two shadow-length. This shows the flexibility of the Hanafi madhhab and, in my opinion, its superiority!

[Qadri-Jilani]

yes the shaykhayn differ but the madhab as pointed out is in the qawl of Imam Sahib

The reason why the two of you are differing is because Arabs (today) are generally more linient and the Indo-Pak scholars are more strict. I have been told of a few things by people who have studied there which differes from the way we are taught.

[mubzy101]

Originally posted by: Mansur Alam

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,


No offence but i think it's very sad that a prominent Scholar is giving such as ruling whereas in Reliance of the Traveller, an authority book on Fiqh for the Shaafi'is it is written to take dispensation so that Muslim brothers and sisters from any Madhab can Pray behind each other. Alhamdulillah I have never met a Hanafi whether they be a Scholar of layman to take the position that has been given by Sheikh Turab ul Haq.

The reliance of the traveller...in itself is not a book that should be depended upon...Go and first find out who is the one that has written it's commentary...!

so if you prefer reliance of the traveller to bahare shariat them  im sorry but you are not only wrong but you are clearly lost...
specially when you yourself have changed from being a hanafi to being  a shafi'i overnight...and then you are putting your own opinions i.e. ...you stated earlier...."i think a hanafi should pray according to shafi'i....etc etc....

a hanafi should not pray behind a shafi'i unless he is absolute certain that  time has started for the namaz being prayed ...and secondly he should be certain that the imam has done wuzu according to the sunnat tareeqa eg,, doing full masa of the head...etc...!

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Ya Imaam Abu Haneefah Madad,
Ya Imaam ash Shaafi'i Madad,

Not you again. Why don't you keep your lies to yourself oh hater of Imaam Shaafi'i. By the way, Reliance of the Traveller is a trustworthy Shaafi'i Fiqh Book written by Imaam ibn Niqab al Misri r.a. and translated by Sheikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller haafidhahullah the Sheikh of the Darqawi Haashimi Shaadhili Tareeqah.

[Sher-e-Raza]

Just shows how people within the Hanafi Fiqh like to demand others to follow a specific rule, without guidance from the traditional texts of the masters of Hanafi Fiqh.

Imam Ibn Nujaym Al-Misri (Author of Al-Bahr Al-Raa'iq) has written a pamphlet regarding the time of Asr. It's called,

"Raf' Al-Gisha An Waqtay Al-Asr Wa Al-Isha"

He mentions in the beginning that the purpose of writing this pamphlet is, many people here in Egypt perform their Asr and Isha' according to the Sahibayn's opinion which is absolutely incorrect because the mutoon of the Hanafi Masters clearly affirms that the fatwa is on the Imam's opinion. He goes on to say it is necessary for the layman to follow the opinion upon which the masters gave fatwa.

In Bahar-e-Shari'ah, it also says that there are three conditions for when it is allowed to perform Salah behind a Shafa'i Imam. One is he must not be a Muta'assib Shafa'i (Someone who slanders the Hanafi Imam and his followers). Second is that the Imam must fulfill the necessities of the Hanafi Mazhab in Taharah (which includes the masah and the rule regarding if the imam bleeds during salah in a way that the blood flows onto the outer body). The third i cannot remember. Maybe someone can check and let us know, it's in Imaamat Ka Bayaan.

Fatawa Alamghiri has the two above mentioned conditions.

Radd Al-Muhtar mentions the above two conditions too.

What Kiran Fatima is saying regarding "Talfeeq" is an opinon that very few Hanafi Scholars hold. Ibn nujaym refutes it in his Bahr and in the above mentioned pamphlet too. It's an opinon held by people like Faraz Rabbani and maybe a few Hanafi Mufties in Syria but according to traditional text a very weak opinion. It defeats the aim of Taqleed. It opens doors to follow desire.

The most strongest opinion is to follow your Mazhab in all worship.

Alaa Hazrat writes in his Fatawa that one can perform behind them in asr and Isha' if the Hanafi time has not yet entered, however, he must perform it again when the time enters.

In this way, one will not miss the barakah of performing behind Great Shafa'i Scholars  in congregation and will also perform correctly according to his own mazhab when repeated.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother Sher-e-Raza, what if it it used not for desire of following the easiest but for the sake of gaining the reward of Praying in Jama'ah. Also, i don't see how it is only the opinion of a few when I had never come across anyone with the opinion you are giving up until now. I find it very strange that a Muslim cannot Pray behind another Muslim just because they follow a different Madhab!

[Sher-e-Raza]

Of course you can perform Salah behind an Imam from another Mazhab.

The quote,

"The most strongest opinion is to follow your Mazhab in all worship"

is regarding "Talfeeq". An opinion in the Hanafi Fiqh is that one can take the qowl of other than his own Imam for a specific worship (Ibadah). Having the beard is a separate worship. The Asr salah is a separate worship. Fasting is a separate worship. The opnion says that one can choose any of the four Imam's Mazhab in each worship, but the whole worsip has to be done according to that Imam's Mazhab.

If pne does Wudu according to the Hanafi Mazhab, he has to perform every Salah with that wudu according to the Hanafi Mazhab. However, if he decides to do wudu according to the Shafa'i Mazhab, he must perform every Salah with that wudu according to the Shafa'i Mazhab. That is the Talfeeq (mixing the Mazahib) allowed by some. The talfeeq unanimously not allowed is in one Ibadah. For example if you do wudu according to the Shafa'i Mazhab and only do masah on one or two hair, you cannot perform Salah according to the Hanafi Mazhab with that specific wudu. A more detailed explanation is in the Muqaddamah of Imam ibn Abideen's Radd Al-Muhtar.

This is what i was talking about. what i'm saying is that the Hanafi Masters besides a few disallow both types of the above mentioned talfeeq.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

I understand what you are saying Akhi fillah but i'm talking about ruksah (dispensation) which doesn't result in talfiq. If a Hanafi takes dispensation according to the Shaafi'i/Maaliki/Hanbali Madhab for 'Asr for the intention of gaining reward of Praying in Jama'ah and completes the Salaah according to the Shaafi'i/Hanbali/Maaliki Madhab then there shouldn't be a problem. Also, in the Shaafi'i Madhab, Purity and Salaah are two seperate issues, so one could perform Wudhu according to the Hanafi way and Salaah according to the Shaafi'i way and there is no problem in that.

Walhamdulillahi Rabbil 'alameen.

[Sher-e-Raza]

In the Hanafi Mazhab, wudhu and salah are not two separate worships. Wudhu is a waseelah for salah. That is why we do not regard intention to be an obligatory for wudhu.

One can perform wudhu according to the Hanafi Mazhab and then perform Salah according to the Shafa'i Mazhab by ri'ayah al-mazaahib. And also behind a Shafa'i Imam as long as he's not contradicting his own mazhab in the three conditions earlier mentioned from Bahar-e-Shari'ah.

This is unity. You see, we might do things differently but we don't feel a shadow a of disunity. We are one and united. No matter how much we differ from each other, when it comes to love, we won't let go of each other!!

[DrTous]

brother Sher-e-Raza Z, I found it in bahare shariat in chapter Imamat ka bayan. And i think u did not listen to this answer from shah turabul haq qadri.I found also a other fatwa from a other sunni site.plz look at these pics and listen to this answer. I will search more about it from other sunni sites.