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Disturbing narrations in the books of Ahadith

Posted 27 May 2007 - 02:34 PM (#41) User is offline   faizu 

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salam, guys guys, if ever u dont understand somthing, especially from the Quran and hadith, please dont come on ya nabi to ask for explanations, go to a qualified scholar, some of the comments have been really disappointing, sunnis dont talk about Imam bukhari in that way, I cant believe that some one whos book which has been called the greatest book after the book of Allah, and some one whose authority has stood as a shining light throughout the centuries is being questioned today by novices, u guys ur not supposed to read hadith without A Sheikh, why did people like Imam ibn hajr asqalani write commentries consisting of 40 volumes to explain the hadith if it was easy to understand , is it just filled with woffle, please please do not be influenced by wahabbi methodology, dont go direct to Quran and sunnah, i beg of u, this is one of the signs of Qiyamah, ignorant people wil be asked about deen, and they will not know, so they will be misguided and they will misguide others. salaam take heed guys dont let ur ego get in the way, control the nafs, we all r nothing intellectualy, academicaly, if u cant explain, dont complain, say Allah knows best, remember never give ur "opinions" in matters of deen, salaam
live each day as if it was your last
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 03:20 PM (#42) User is offline   Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw 

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As salaamu 3alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Dont' talk without knowledge mate. I've tried for about 5 years to get an explanation for this Hadith from Scholars and i don't have one. Don't accept everything so blindly. If you want to believe in it that's your choice but don't criticise others who don't, you aren't a scholar.


Laa Fatah illa 'Ali Laa Sayf illa Dhulfiqaar

Ali nu yaad karo
Jisi 'Ali nahin milte Khuda nahin milta

Ya Ameerul mumineen wa Imaamul mutaqeen Imaamul Awliyah Sher e Allah Mawlana e kainaat Mushkil kushaa Sayyidina Mawlana Haider al Karrar 'Ali al Murtadha 'alaykas salaam Madad
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 03:41 PM (#43) User is offline   faizu 

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subhanallah, uve tried for 5 years to get explanation but couldnt, which scholars u been to dude sheikh google, lol, I cannot believe ,u sound like a wahabbi in disguise, or at least one who is influenced by their methodology,
live each day as if it was your last
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 03:47 PM (#44) User is offline   Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw 

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As salaamu 3alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Don't judge me you ignorant little child. I'm talking about proper Scholars who give explanations like these ones on this thread which make absolutely no sense at all. Who do you think you are telling me what i am. You're probably a wahabbi yourself come here to cause fitna. Go and learn some adab.


Laa Fatah illa 'Ali Laa Sayf illa Dhulfiqaar

Ali nu yaad karo
Jisi 'Ali nahin milte Khuda nahin milta

Ya Ameerul mumineen wa Imaamul mutaqeen Imaamul Awliyah Sher e Allah Mawlana e kainaat Mushkil kushaa Sayyidina Mawlana Haider al Karrar 'Ali al Murtadha 'alaykas salaam Madad
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 04:09 PM (#45) User is offline   faizu 

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sorry if i offended u great pious dude, but its funny u question Imam Bhukhari and tell me to learn adab, anyway i will try and be more courteous when addressing big people, sorry, as regards to this hadith, there r other instances like this quoted in the sirah of ibn Hisham, there is nothing strange about this hadith, it was an event that took place in his early youth, and if anything it shows his greatness and "haya" and his azeem and sublime fitrah, he could not bear the state and became unconcious, it also shows how Allah protected him, there is another instance where hthey (peace be upon him) were going somewhere with their friends to watch a kind of show and they became unconcious, If anything these occurances show his super human qualities, and how Allah protects his favoured people remember  its how u interpret the hadith that matters, sorry again for offending u great pious brother forgive me please, salaam

live each day as if it was your last
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 04:57 PM (#46) User is offline   Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw 

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As salaamu 3alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Originally posted by: salahudeen ayyubi

sorry if i offended u great pious dude,

Just shows your lack of adab.

but its funny u question Imam Bhukhari and tell me to learn adab,
 
I would rather question Imaam Bukhaari rahimahullah than attribute something which i find inappropriate to my Beloved s.a.w, Allahumma Salli 3ala Muhammad wa 3ala Aali Muhammad wa Ashaabi Muhammad wa 3ajjil farajahum.

anyway i will try and be more courteous when addressing big people, sorry, as regards to this hadith, there r other instances like this quoted in the sirah of ibn Hisham, there is nothing strange about this hadith, it was an event that took place in his early youth, and if anything it shows his greatness and "haya" and his azeem and sublime fitrah, he could not bear the state and became unconcious,
 
What? You mean compared to Him s.a.w. not getting naked in public near al K3aba in the first place?

it also shows how Allah protected him,

Why just not get naked in the first place?

there is another instance where hthey (peace be upon him) were going somewhere with their friends to watch a kind of show and they became unconcious, If anything these occurances show his super human qualities, and how Allah protects his favoured people remember  its how u interpret the hadith that matters,

I am not questioning Rasulullah s.a.w. becoming unconcious in any situation but that the Hadith says He s.a.w. got naked in public. 
 
sorry again for offending u great pious brother forgive me please, salaam

Lack of adab again. Did i ever claim to be pious or great. Grown up child.


Laa Fatah illa 'Ali Laa Sayf illa Dhulfiqaar

Ali nu yaad karo
Jisi 'Ali nahin milte Khuda nahin milta

Ya Ameerul mumineen wa Imaamul mutaqeen Imaamul Awliyah Sher e Allah Mawlana e kainaat Mushkil kushaa Sayyidina Mawlana Haider al Karrar 'Ali al Murtadha 'alaykas salaam Madad
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 05:55 PM (#47) User is offline   Hawari-unNabi 

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Dear brother Mansur

Nothing can be manifested externally until it is with Allah in His Omnipotent Divine Knowledge. So it is Allah who made Prophet (PBUH) a Prophet in His Omnipotent Divine Knowledge. With this Knowledge all the attributes, names, orders, adjectives and acts are pre-defined.

 

The role of Prophets falls in the shade of Divine Attribute "Al Hadi" of Allah.

So that all actions of Prophet (PBUH) are tokens of Hidaya

Believers have accepted Allah, His Divine Will and that the Prophet (PBUH) is under the shade of Divine Attribute of Allah of "Al Hadi".

 

The hadith in context is from an established book, so where is the question to doubt it's authenticity based on it's content alone?

 

If not for Syeddna Rasul Allah Sallalahu alehi wassallam, for whom are we going to believe that all his actions are tokens of divine guidance?


Say, consider When a non believer approached Syeddna Abu Bark Assiddiq and said to him about prophet's (PBUH) Mairaaj and questioned him as to would syeddna Abu Bakr believe it, In response he asked did Prophet (PBUH) relate this and when the reply was yes, Syeddna Abu Bakr immediately accepted it.
we are mere disciples of Syeddna Abu Bakr.   

 


Jazak Allah

 

 

Ya rasul Allah unzur halana


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Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:05 PM (#48) User is offline   objective-enquirer 

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the point of the discussion is that according to the aforementioned hadith of bokhari; the Noble Prophet(S) was seen 'naked' with nothing on and private parts in full view of other people....any story like this, even for other Prophets is very doubtful as it reduces the dignity and honour of the Prophets to ordinary jahiliya practices regardless of age!

 some of us do not like any association of such practices to our Prophet(S) and rather than saying bokhari was right, we say the Prophet(S) was infallible, impeccable, without any shadow of humiliation...which seems to be the case here given the umconsciousness in shame etc...

secondly, the slippery slope does not stop here but rather you will come across in the same book where the Prophet(S) is seen doing toilet and the reporters try to determine the direction in which we can and we cant pee....

we do not believe in any hadith which does not befit the dignity of Our beloved Noble Prophet(S). surely, you may disagree and justify such actions; which seem demeaning to us....

Eyesight is useless if the insight is blind
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:07 PM (#49) User is offline   rizwan_bashi 

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Assalam Alaykum

Brothers lets look at this from a different angle, If this did happen at the time it happend for a reason by the will of Allah ( Azzu Wajal ) now what was the point that was made? I would explain this ( from my point of view ) as a lesson to all, that mistakes do occur and we must all learn from our mistakes and not to let them occur again, others may say things to influence us without thinking whats is right or wrong, but although Allah ( Azzu wajal ) has limmited our brains to know everything, he has given us the option to think of what is right and what is wrong ( islam is all down to common sense ) we must think of what is right and do that with the right intentions. So instead of thinking deep as to why the blessed prophet took off his waist -sheet cover ( if it did occur ) think as to why certain things should not be done.

Always stick together, and to unite as one nation.

May Allah ( Azzu Wajal ) guide us all

Allah Hafiz
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:22 PM (#50) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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It may help to note that after the Wisaal-e-Zahiri of the Holy Prophet , the people were informed subliminally by Allah Taalah, that if they were to look at the Holy Prophet body below the navel, they will be blinded. Thus nobody saw the body of the Holy Prophet even during Ghusal and moreover only the Ahl-e-Bayt were allowed to perform the ritual.

The hadith under discussion in this thread appears to contradict with the directive contained in the above report.


Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:58 PM (#51) User is offline   Hawari-unNabi 

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Originally posted by: Rizwan Bashir

[IMG][/IMG]Assalam AlaykumBrothers lets look at this from a different angle, If this did happen at the time it happend for a reason by the will of Allah ( Azzu Wajal ) now what was the point that was made? I would explain this ( from my point of view ) as a lesson to all, that mistakes do occur and we must all learn from our mistakes  as one nation.May Allah ( Azzu Wajal ) guide us allAllah Hafiz

The one whose guidance is from Allah Azwajal (that is Prohet (PBUH)), what mistake can you talk about.
 I say that one has to accept unconditionally that what ever error one is seeing in the contents of the hadith:- the fault lies in the eyes of the beholder.
 
Who, in the two worlds, has been made as a judge to the actions of Syeddna Rasul Allah and the Divine Will of Allah???  It is mistake in itself to attribute a mistake to Prophets. Please reflect

Jazak Allah
-------------------
Ya Rasul Allah unzur halana

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 08:49 PM (#52) User is offline   rizwan_bashi 

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Assalam Alaykum brother mueiz

Don't take what i have written in the wrong way my brother, the point i am trying to make is that mistakes do occur and no-one is perfect ( mistakes are not intentional ), the prophet was told by his uncle to do as he did ( should his uncle have asked him to do, this ) this is just one aspect from which i am looking at this, I have not written anywhere that the prophet made a mistake ( sorry if my message came accross in this way ). I did write WE must learn from OUR mistakes, to focus on where we go wrong and follow the right path.

May Allah ( Azzu wajal ) guide us all

Allah Hafiz
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 09:03 PM (#53) User is offline   fayaz-halai 

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Originally posted by: Mansur Alam

As salaamu 3alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,As salaatu was salaamu 3alayk Ya Khayru Khalqillah Ya Rasulullah,I found this Hadith in Sahih Bukhari,Volume 1, Book 8, Number 360:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:


While Allah's Apostle was carrying stones (along) with the people of Mecca for (the building of) the Ka'ba wearing an Izar (waist-sheet cover), his uncle Al-'Abbas said to him, "O my nephew! (It would be better) if you take off your Izar and put it over your shoulders underneath the stones." So he took off his Izar and put it over his shoulders, but he fell unconscious and since then he had never been seen naked.Can anybody answer as to what it's supposed to mean?



I dont feel anything strange about this Hadith brothers..........

Hazrat Muhammad was a clild at that time and his uncle was careful about his nephew that he might got hurt by the load of the stones and hence he advised to put his Izar over his shoulders.Because Prophet Muhammad was a child so it is fine for a child.Hazrat Muhammad dint do it purposely and not even his uncle asked him to do that act specially for showing his private parts(Naouzubillah).Sometimes A mother changes her child's clothes infront of everyone,so that does not mean that she is exposing her child in public.WOuld you think the same if you see a child getting dressed in front of you??

Brothers stop thinking everything in a negative way, atleast try to figureout the nature of Hadith.

Hazrat Muhammad was a child,so he was not aware of what he was doing but Allah even take care of his beloved when our beloved was a innocent child.Allah made him unconscious so that he is covered again and that span of time is passed for once and forever.
 
Gustakhe Nabi Ke Liye Ab Apne Khuda Se

Main Hazrat-e-Moosa Ka Asaa Mang Raha Hu

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 09:21 PM (#54) User is offline   rizwan_bashi 

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Assalam Alaykum brother Fayaz Halai

Thank you for a very good point made by yourself, i have previously made a point with same intention to look at the positive side but, certain brothers decide to go back into the minor details and to look into errors made in our spelling / content written, I totaly agree with you when u say "Brothers stop thinking everything in a negative way, atleast try to figure out the nature of Hadith."

Allah Hafiz



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Posted 27 May 2007 - 09:23 PM (#55) User is offline   objective-enquirer 

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brother Jesus Christ(A) spoke from the cradle whilst an infant and was a Prophet and was given a book of God.
Ghaus al-Azam dastageer whilst a baby would not drink milk in ramadhan and would indicate the arival of eid etc.

there are countless examples in sufi literarture and also in Qoran where children have been given hikma etc

therefore, our point is that Rasool Allah(S) was not ignorant of these matters of intrinsic ethics. but i understand your point of view as well i.e. ordinary became extraordinary...we think extraordinary was never ordinary!

Eyesight is useless if the insight is blind
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 09:29 PM (#56) User is offline   Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw 

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As salaamu 3alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother mueiz you're avoiding the issue. Your post doesn't really justify the Hadith. For the reasons stated on this thread and i shall repeat some again inshaaAllah the event cannot have happened. The Prophet s.a.w. being infallible from when He s.a.w. was born, Rasulullah s.a.w. being the Best of Creation since He s.a.w. was born, Rasulullah s.a.w. always doing the best and pleasing Allah s.w.t. since He s.a.w. was born. The Hadith makes no sense and we learn nothing from it. It does not befit the Perfect nature of Our Beloved s.a.w., and Brother Fayaz i suggest you ponder over this thread and the points i just made.


Laa Fatah illa 'Ali Laa Sayf illa Dhulfiqaar

Ali nu yaad karo
Jisi 'Ali nahin milte Khuda nahin milta

Ya Ameerul mumineen wa Imaamul mutaqeen Imaamul Awliyah Sher e Allah Mawlana e kainaat Mushkil kushaa Sayyidina Mawlana Haider al Karrar 'Ali al Murtadha 'alaykas salaam Madad
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Posted 28 May 2007 - 08:32 AM (#57) User is offline   Hawari-unNabi 

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Brother Mansur , if only for a while, will you forget the issue of justifying the hadith.

Let me clarify why the acceptance should be unconditional
Prophet Musa (A.S) when a child put a peice of firebrand in his mouth,
Whlie Prophet Issa (A.S) spoke to mankind while still in cradle.
I would say both the acts are from hikmah, for a prophet has been choosen for receiving divine giudance and Allah is their guide under all circumstances (explicitly after obtaining manifest prophethood and implicitly before obtaining the prophedhood).
It is not for us to pick and choose because Wisdom & the Decree under the Will of Allah doesn't change.Brother OE
Accepting the above would not mean accepting that the ordinary has become extra ordinary (ie after the grant of manifest Prophethood).

The Prophets are exrta ordinary in terms of wisdom , knowledge and nabuwwa. In fact,  if any thing is ordinary it can never become extraordinary. Extraordinary is so called becuase it's extra ordinary qualities are intrinsic to it, these qualities can  either be latent (hidden ie before the grant of manifest prophethood) or manifest.  


Jazak Allah

---------------------------------
 
Ya Rasul Allah unzur halana

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 12:59 PM (#58) User is offline   Imran. 

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Assalaam Alaikum

Can we also incorporate(in this thread) the 2 incidents of when the blessed heart of the Prophet(sallalaahu Alaihi Wa Aalehi Wassallam)was removed and a black spot was removed.

Is that feasible in the sense that as they were already perfect and also a Prophet too(both of which there is no doubt about).

Where did this "black spot" come from as it seems like a sign of an imperfection and why the need to remove an imperfectin from what is already perfection personified?

Do we accept such Hadith?



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Posted 28 May 2007 - 01:12 PM (#59) User is offline   Muhammad_Mobasher_Muhammadi 

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Wa Alaikum Assalaam,

I believe brother Mueiz and brother Imran have valid points.

Similarly, it is in Bukhaari, that The Holy Prophet performed urination while standing. There is no explanation any further why they did so. However, Imam Tirmidhi narrate that The Holy Prophet did so because they had a pain in their Blessed legs. Will this not include as a fault in the Blessed Personality of The Holy Prophet? Just to add, the ones who say,''Show me in Bukhaari,'' in fact have no evidence to urinate while sitting.

Allama Maulana Syed Shah Turab-ul-Haq Qadri narrated the Hadith where the elders pulled the Blessed cloth of The Holy Prophet to make them feel easy probably due to the very reason why the brothers donot feel like accepting it.

Jazak Allah
What is the constant concern of The Holy Prophet Alayhis Salaatu Wa Salaam? The Forgiveness of His Ummah. Struggle for it.

A common human being uses no more than 3 percent of his brain's total capability. Where do you use the remaining 97 percent when there is nothing meaningless or unnecessary in God's creation? In search of His Ma'arifah, in the path of spirituality - to Know Him.
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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:54 PM (#60) User is offline   Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw 

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As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Ya Rasulullah SallAllahu 'alayka wa sallim Madad,

Brother muez what is wrong with you. I'm sorry but you don't make any sense. Putting fire in ones mouth and talking from the cradle are miracles SubhaanAllah. HOW IS GETTING NAKED IN PUBLIC THE SAME THING!!! Have you even read the Hadith, do you know what this thread is about?

Brother MMM, i don't see how you can say what brother mueiz said is a valid point. It just seems that any excuse is being made for justifying this Hadith.


Laa Fatah illa 'Ali Laa Sayf illa Dhulfiqaar

Ali nu yaad karo
Jisi 'Ali nahin milte Khuda nahin milta

Ya Ameerul mumineen wa Imaamul mutaqeen Imaamul Awliyah Sher e Allah Mawlana e kainaat Mushkil kushaa Sayyidina Mawlana Haider al Karrar 'Ali al Murtadha 'alaykas salaam Madad
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