[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Lol, you want to know sistani's l'anatullahi 'alayh's views on tatbeer? Take a look at this http://www.shirazi.org.uk/tatbir%20fatawa.htm. Have a look at the second fatwa which is endorsed and signed by sistani. Now what?

No wonder you don't think i use logic because you can't see it and you continually avoid my questions which you are your shia brothers can never answer. Firstly, it is in the shia encyclopaedia that imaams don't and cannot recieve wahi. I never said Sayyidina Ibraheem a.s. becoming an Imaam in the shia view meant He a.s. stopped recieving wahi and i actually put it in capital letters last time to ensure you know what i do mean. Let me try again inshaaAllah. WAHI IS NOT A PRIVILEGE OF THE POSITION OF IMAAMAH. NABI'S A.S. CAN RECIEVE WAHI SO BY LOGIC THE POSITION OF NABUWWAH IS BETTER DUE TO MORE PRIVILEGE AND CLOSER TO ALLAH JALA WA 'ALA. Understand? I'm talking about the positions themselves when Nabuwwah and Imaamah are seperate. If you still go against the shia beliefs and say that Imaams do recieve wahi then why would Allah s.w.t. give Nabi Ibraheem a.s. all these tests and then give Him a.s. a position that is exactly the same as what He a.s. is already doing i.e. guiding?

Walhamdulillahi Rabbil 'alameen.

[Mystic]

Originally posted by: Hayder Ali

Brother Amjad

Please do not be so deceitful - Kafi is not the most authentic book! IT is a mere compilation of traditions whose chains haven't been verified - no wonder you use it!

Brother for the 12rs usoolis like yourself usool-e- kafi is the most authentic book. Plus all these narrations are verified by your scholars. I have taken all these narrations from "your own webites." So therefore, i have just refuted your baseless arguemets.

[Mystic]

I would like to add that the narrations i have posted from Al Kafi the 12rs most authentic hadith book is taken from their own websites.
Here is the link below

http://www.al-shia.c...-kafi/index.htm

Al kafi is a hadith book that has over 18,000 hadith, however on this websites most of the weak or fabricated hadith are removed. Therefore, only those hadith that are accepted in the 12rs aqeeda are posted online.

Brother H.A if you want me to refute your baseless methodology about Imams being higher then Prophets by using the Quran then please request it. I will have no trouble doing that either.

[Hayder]

Mansur - you have sent La'nat upon Ayatullah Syed Sistani. I am lost for words and it makes me very sad to see the ignorance and hatred. I'm sure you are aware of the implications of sending la'nat upon a person who is beyond it - it returns to the sender of the la'nat.
I've met Ayatullah Syed Sistani myself and can assure you that what I say is correct.
But Ayatullah Sistani, this great Aalim and Muttaqi person - how you can send la'nat on such a person shows the type of person you are. May Allah guide you.
I hope you take what you said back, for your own sake. Indeed you have caused great offence.
 
Trying to ignore your comments, your understanding of the different roles of Immamah and Nabuwwat is very little and yet your rhetroic suggests otherwise.
Before we clarify this, let's clarify the following first:

So you, Mansur, still believe that:

1) The test of one of the greatest Prophets, Ibraheem (as), this great test which occured near the end of his life was a simple case of cleanliness, wudhu etc??? And the reward for this was Imamah - Allah made him an "IMAM FOR MANKIND".

2) That after the test, the reward, Imamat given was something lower than before.

The authority over men that is the role of the Khalifatullah, the Imam. Those Prophets who were also exalted to the level of Imamat that brought Books with authority over mankind and with messages that were not only for their own tribe or nation like the messages of many prophets, but came additionally with the authority of the Khalifatullah that made them the leaders of mankind with authority over mankind.

Those that came for the world were by definition Imams and the Khalifas of Allah. And they were all of this lineage. This is why the Qur'an speaks directly of the prophets of Banu Israel and not of those of China or India, for it was these prophets, many of them, that were also the Imams of their time and were thus of significance to humanity as a whole. Thus the Qur'an, which is a guidance to all mankind and has authority over all mankind, notes them.

And it was using the example of one of these prophets who was also an Imam that Prophet Mohammad (saaw) said many times in his life, as recorded in the Sahih of Bukhari as the last Hadith listed under the section on the virtues of Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as),

"Ali is to me like Haroon was to Musa."

Haroon (as) was Musa (as)'s Brother (19:53), Vizier (20:29-36) and in his absence the Khalifa (7:142). And thus so was Ali (as).

Imam Ali (as) is the WALI, MAWLA, Caliph, Imam - i.e. he was given that authority by ALLAH (swt). And i'm sure you know the various hadeeths - Ghadeer, and verses of Quran telling the believers this.

This is an extremely outlined view of imamat - there is so much to write but I am getting late.

Inshallah I'll outline the takwini and tashri'ee authorities of prophets and imams. The verse of Ulil amr also needs to be explained inshallah.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Sistani is a kaafir and an enemy of the Muslims therefore that's why i sent l'anat upon him. Your causing offence with your kufr beliefs.

Secondly, you have used a great tactic of the shia which is to reply to a question with questions. Why don't you just answer what i asked instead of filling your post up with stuff that is off topic.

Let me tell you the questions again,

1) You still have not proved that there were Imaams after any of the other Prophet's a.s. and especially the one that according to you should have been before Sayyidina Rasulullah s.a.w. since it would have been reported when He s.a.w. met him. Where's the evidence?

2) The position of Imaamah does not have the privelege of wahi, however Nabuwwah does. Since this closeness to Allah s.w.t. is not contained in Imaamah, how is it higher than Nabuwwah?

3) Why would Allah s.w.t. give Sayyidina Ibraheem a.s. tests to give Him a.s. a position where He a.s. gains nothing but simply does the exact same thing i.e. guide?

4) Your taqiyyah about tatbeer has been proven after i gave you a link to a shia website showing that sistani agrees with it.

If you can't answer then just say so.

[Hayder]

(1) You call Ayatullah Sistani a kafir??? I don't know what to say apart from learning more about his. May Allah guide you.

(2) Excuse me - but you are the one who is asking questions and when you cannot reply you either call it "off-topic" or ask a question again. Have you actually read the posts or just written replies without any thought? That's what it looks like.  How about answering my questions for once?

You've used a great tactic of those in the wrong.

Your nonsensical questions continue. You still say that Prophet Ibraheem (as) gained nothing. You are wasting time. And don't play the taqiyyah game - your ignorance and deceitful tactics have reached a peak.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Ya Sayyidina 'Ali 'alaykas salaam Madad!,

Naare Takbeer! Naare Risaalat! Naare Haideri! Brothers and sisters, hayder has finally realised that he can't answer the questions SubhaanAllah wa bihamdih. All my questions are on topic about Imaamah and for about 3 pages in this thread now he has wasted valuable space with his waffle and off topic copy and paste jobs and now has realised that his kufr beliefs cannot be justified. Like i said many times before his brothers and sisters on the shia forum could not answer either, think, out of how many thousands of users, not even one could prove their beliefs and they still follow it! May Allah Jala wa 'Ala guide them all.

Allahumma salli 'ala Sayyidina wa Habeebina Muhammad wa 'ala Aalihit tayibeen at tahireen wa 'ala Azwaajihi ummahaatil mumineen wa 'ala Khulafaa ar raashideenil mahdiyin Saadaatina wa Aimatina Abi Bakrin wa 'Umara wa 'Uthmaana wa 'Ali wa 'ala Sahaabatahil gurril mayameen wa 'ajil farajahum!!!

[objective-enquirer]

brother hayder, it is better, both in knowledge and manners, that you discuss with brother Amjad, as Mansur  is very bad mannered and offensive.

[dubaiguy]

 

[Hayder]

I agree.

He is however a very good debater - he has twisted the thread to make it look as if he has answered my questions, as if I've gone off-topic and therefore as if he has the better argument.

He is extremely deceitful and himself ignores issues but then acts and posts as if he is claiming victory. His ill-mannered attitude was tolerated, his cursing on Ayatullah Sistani and calling him a kafir were all noted.

1) He called the view of immamat above just nabbuwwat as kufr and yet provided absoloutely NO evidence and refuted and ignored examples.

2) He still holds the nonsensical view that this great test of Prophet Ibraheem (as) was about cleanliness and wudhu and chooses to ignore this. He doesn't seem to think and is convinced about his nonsensical ideas.

3) He fails to understand or tries to spin his posts to make the reader misunderstand a clearly set out example.

May Allah guide him.

[Madad-Ya-Rasulullah-saw]

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Lol, bro OE, don't worry i know about you and so do plenty of others. No wonder you support hayder and are telling him to avoid questions he can't answer. It's a surprise you've gotten as far as you. You know what i'm talking about.

Hayder your constant jibberish is evident throughout your posts. You use the basic shia tactics of trying to get out of a tough situation where your can't defend your kufr beliefs. I asked you many questions and you NEVER answer but simply go off topic posting irrelevant ahadith in order to make it look like you've answered and to get the reader confused on other issues.

[fayaz-halai]

How can anyone rise the status of Imam upon Prophets........This is disgusting.
It is same like Wahabis and Deo-bandis who say that Hazrat Muhammad is just like us....MaazAllah

What is difference between you Hayder Ali and these wahabis??Do you mean and believe the same what you say??