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Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?

Posted 08 June 2006 - 08:59 PM (#41) User is offline   qaderi 

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Originally posted by: Imran Ali
...you people whom write here, i can safely say that none of you are honured by the company of majlis of RasoolAllah, majlis of sahaba, majlis of tabiyin or the majlis of the auliya...
...what i have read on this post has been a grave disappointment, disappointment in the field of knowledge worldy and religious. it has been a disappointment when it comes to iman. and shows lack of ishq, it shows the lack of blood of imam Hasan radhi Allah anu and imam Hussein radhi Allah anu in the veins...

i fail to see the reason for such statements....why such harshness? not just in this thread but in other threads as well by other users...people always pointing fingers at others 'oh he doesn't have a beard therefore he must not love the Prophet , oh he disagrees with a certain view of Ala Hazrat therefore he must not be sunni and must not have any iman etc etc'...why such an approach? where is the softness of the heart? how in the world can we judge the love of others?

'it has been a disappointment when it comes to iman. and shows lack of ishq, it shows the lack of blood of imam Hasan radhi Allah anu and imam Hussein radhi Allah anu in the veins'

yes the same people who are providing a service to the ummah and Islam by making and running this wonderful website have shown a lack of iman and ishq in this thread...these same people who are benefiting how many muslims around the world by providing lectures from so many scholars, yes these same people have shown a lack of iman and ishq in this thread....while most of  us just sit at home, use this site and abuse it and abuse it until no end, starting nothing but fitna, we have the true iman and ishq, only us and no one else......come on, get real

why not keep the discussion academic and enjoyable so that everyone benefits?

forgive me if i've hurt your feelings

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:04 PM (#42) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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My dear brothers please note that nobody is defending Science here. Everybody realises the fallacy of Science and that is not the point of discussion.

I'm sure none here would disagree if I say that the present scientific knowledge and research is not even comparable to an atom's weight before the Knowledge and Wisdom of Bab-ul-Ilm Maula Ali (AS) the Gate of Knowledge. Then Imagine what would be the state of our Beloved Prophet . However, Ala Hazrat (RA) and other Islamic scholars are neither the City of Knowledge nor its Gate nor are they infalliable.

In your approach you have assumed that the Holy Quran speaks on the static nature of the Earth. Our stance is that of every Momin that the Quran is Haq, your interpretation of it is wrong.

Your example of a poorly qualified FSc teacher may be sufficient to put the mind of the average blind follower of Ala Hazrat (RA) at ease but will not be able to shut up the countless enemies of Islam who attribute this misinterpretation of some scholars as an alleged Condradiction of the Holy Quran (Naazubillah).

The approach that the brothers have demonstrated will not win you a debate against a non-Muslim. Please tackle the evidences presented on academic grounds and solidify your arguments based on facts not tantrums and emotional speeches.


Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:12 PM (#43) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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I sought a clarification from the brothers before setting the parameters for my discussion but noone has responded. Kindly please furnish the following request.

Originally posted by: Sunni Revolution
Before exploring this topic further I would like to seek clarification from the brother's who oppose the movement of Earth whether it is the Rotation (Spinning about its own axis), Revolution (orbit around the Sun) or both they do not accept?

After having answered the above question I would invite the brothers to explain the movement of the Sun given a stationary Earth and how it leads to:

1. Day/Night
2. Seasons
3. Varying length of Daylight in different parts of the World


In addition please explain whether in your opinion it is only the Earth that is stationary or all planets of our Solar system?


Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:35 PM (#44) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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Originally posted by: Imran Ali

1. Yawn

Originally posted by: Imran Ali
Again: Yawn

Dear brother it appears that you have been overcome by Satan. Please seek Protection from Allah Taalah and act upon the following hadiths.

1. Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: 'Ha', Satan will laugh at him. (Bukhari)

2. Allah likes sneezing and dislikes yawning, so if someone sneezes and then praises Allah, then it is obligatory on every Muslim who heard him, to say: May Allah be merciful to you (Yar-hamuka-l-lah). But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so one must try one's best to stop it, if one says 'Ha' when yawning, Satan will laugh at him. (Bukhari)

3. When one of you yawns, he should try to restrain it with the help of his hand since it is the Satan that enters therein. (Timidhi)



Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:53 PM (#45) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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Originally posted by: Imran Ali
However the point is that i will beleive in Alahazrat no matter what. When someone loves someone, one does not find any faults by them, but when one loves a person who allredy is perfect how can you attach faults to them?

Dear brother it has become apparent that your only motivation is to prove Ala Hazrat (RA) right. Thus, had Ala Hazrat (RA) been in favour of the movement of the Earth you would have supported the opposite argument with equal fervour.

Secondly, please note that Ala Hazrat (RA) is by no means "perfect" for perfection amongst Makhlooq (Creation) is solely associated with Allah's Habeeb and infallability solely with the Prophets. Ala Hazrat (RA) is a Wali and Mujaddid who never claimed nor asked his followers to associate perfection nor infallability with him.

Thirdly, disagreement does not associate fault with a personality. You will have to snap out of this perception. Making a mistake is not a fault but rather part of human nature.

If you are still adamant on your approach then I suggest you explain whether you agree or disagree with the following statement of Umul-Momineen Hazrat Ayesha Siddiqa Tayyiba Tahira (RA)?

"If anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen his Lord then he is a liar for Allah says: 'No vision can grasp Him.' (6:103) And if anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen the Unseen, he is a liar, for Allah says: 'None has the knowledge of the Unseen but Allah.' (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Whose Maqaam is greater? Ala Hazrat's (RA) or Umul-Momineen Hazrat Ayesha Siddiqa Tayyiba Tahira's (RA)?



Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:56 PM (#46) User is offline   Zarb-e-Haidari 

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Brothers lets not get angry over this ...  We MUST start with the Holy Qur'aan.. And then we need to discuss what we accept does it agree with the Holy Qur'aan or not... The Holy Qur'aan is the criterian... If it is translated and understood correctly science will always be on the side of the Holy Qur'aan...

Jazaak Allah Brothers for your hard work...


Ali (as) e Imam e manasto manum ghulaam e Ali (as)
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 12:23 AM (#47) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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Proceeding onto Evidences from the Holy Quran.........

Originally posted by: Sag -e- Attar
There are many verses of the Holy Quran, clearly show the rotation of the moon and the sun, which are given as under.

Firstly, I would like to highlight to the readers as clearly stated in the above statement, "Rotation of the Sun and Moon". Whereas the topic is titled "Movement of Earth". This is clearly a jump in inferral. In support of their approach the response presents the following three verses from the Holy Quran.

1) "O And made the sun and the moonsubservient. Each runs to a turns stated" (Al Quran, part 13, Sure Al-Ra'ad (The thunder)-13, V 2)

2) "And He made the sun and the moon subservient for you which are constantly moving" (Al-Quran, part 13, Sura Abraheem - 14, Verse 23)

3) And each (The moon the sun) is floating in an orbit." (Al-Quran, part 23, Sura Yaseen - 36, verse 140)


Thus I ask the question. The above verses refer to the movement of the Sun and the Moon. Where is the Earth mentioned?

POINT BE NOTED......The Holy Quran NEVER claims that the Earth is Stationary. The Holy Quran merely states that the Moon and the Sun are moving in orbit.

Thus we completely agree with the following statement.

Originally posted by: Sag -e- Attar
It is thus quiet clear that the sun moves and it is obligatory upon every muslim to believe it. Because it is waht Allah Almighty ordains us to believe.

Moving onwards, What is meant by the movement/orbit of the Sun and the Moon? It is common knowledge that the Moon moves and to be precise revolves around the Earth each revolution lasting 28 days which is the basis of the Islamic Calendar.

However, does the Sun move? The Quran says YES. What does Science say? Refer to the following explanation:





Does the Sun orbit the Earth as well as the Earth orbiting the Sun?


Is it true that Sun also revolves around the Earth? If yes, apart from convenience, is there another reason why we use the Solar-centered coordinate system ?


Technically, what is going on is that the Earth, Sun and all the planets are orbiting around the center of mass of the solar system. This is actually how planets orbiting other stars are often detected, by searching for the motion of the stars they orbit that is caused by the fact that the star is orbiting the center of mass of the system, causing it to wobble on the sky.


The center of mass of our solar system very close to the Sun itself, but not exactly at the Sun's center (it is actually a little bit outside the radius of the Sun). However, since almost all of the mass within the solar system is contained in the Sun, its motion is only a slight wobble in comparison to the motion of the planets. Therefore, assuming that the Sun is stationary and the planets revolve around its center is a good enough approximation for most purposes.

http://curious.astro....php?number=461




Alhamdolillah yet again Science finally catches up to prove the statement which the Quran stated over 1400 years ago.

I would request my brothers and sisters to bear with me and wait for my other posts to follow in which I will explore each of the above Verses of the Holy Quran in detail from the original translation by Ala Hazrat (RA) in Kanz-ul-Eman.



Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 12:45 AM (#48) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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First Quoted Reference from the Holy Quran

The First Verse presented in support of an alleged Stationary Earth in the original article posted at the beginning of this thread is:

1) "O And made the sun and the moonsubservient. Each runs to a turns stated" (Al Quran, part 13, Sure Al-Ra'ad (The thunder)-13, V 2)

For clarity and ease of understanding I shall refer to Kanz ul Eman.



The Translation of the Aayat in Urdu is done as:

Har Ek Ek Tehraye Huway Vaada Tak Chalta Hai

The commentary which is Khazain-al-Irfan by Hazrat Syed Naeem ud Din Muradabadi (RA), a prime Khalifah of Ala Hazrat (RA) states that the Verse refers to (the operation of the Sun and Moon) until the End of Time. Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbas (RA) has stated that the words of the Holy Quran 'Ajal' and 'Musamma' refer to the limits imposed on the objects within which they orbit.......

Hence, it has been shown above that in no place is the word 'Earth' mentioned nor is it implied by the verse. The verse refers merely to the orbit of the Sun and the Moon which in the case of the Moon is a revolution around the Earth and in the case of the Sun an extremely short orbit/movement.

Alhamdolillah, there is no Contradiction in the Quran. Modern Science proves the Quran's 1400 years old statement.


Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 01:04 AM (#49) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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Second Quoted Reference from the Holy Quran

The First Verse presented in support of an alleged Stationary Earth in the original article posted at the beginning of this thread is:

2) "And He made the sun and the moon subservient for you which are constantly moving" (Al-Quran, part 13, Sura Abraheem - 14, Verse 23)

For clarity and ease of understanding I shall refer to Kanz ul Eman.



The Translation of the Aayat in Urdu is done as:

Tumharay Liye Suraj aur Chaand Musakhar Kiye Jo Baraabar Chal Rahay Hain

The commentary which is Khazain-al-Irfan by Hazrat Syed Naeem ud Din Muradabadi (RA), a prime Khalifah of Ala Hazrat (RA) states that the Verse mean that the Sun and the Moon do not get tired nor stop and from these you benefit.

NOTE yet again there is no mention of the word 'Earth' in the verse nor is it implied that the Earth is stationary. Also note the words, "Chal Rahay Hain" accompanied by the commentary. These can have two meanings i.e.

1. The Sun and Moon and moving (in orbit).
2. The Sun and Moon are operating (as per their function).

Alhamdolillah in both cases there is no contradiction and the Quran's claim 1400 year ago is proven by modern science.


Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 01:30 AM (#50) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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Third Quoted Reference from the Holy Quran

The Third Verse presented in support of an alleged Stationary Earth in the original article posted at the beginning of this thread is:

3) And each (The moon the sun) is floating in an orbit." (Al-Quran, part 23, Sura Yaseen - 36, verse 140)

Firstly, the above reference has been typed incorrectly. Suran Yaseen has 83 Ayaats only. The correct Verse No. is 40.

NOTE yet again there is no mention of the word 'Earth' in the verse nor is it implied that the Earth is stationary.

Infact, in Verse 38 of the same Surah mentions that the Sun is moving according to its prescribed limits which is consistent with the two verses discussed above.

However, in neither of the Verses nor anywhere in the Holy Quran is it stated that the Sun is moving around the Earth or orbitting the Earth. This inference is certainly not the Holy Quran's claim but an interpretation of Humans.


Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 01:43 AM (#51) User is offline   objective-enquirer 

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this post is just an interjection and the real arguments are presented by Tahir sahib and sunni revolution; about which i must say that there is true knowledge being distributed and investigated.

however, i would only like to address brother Asid sahib; the interpretation of this aayah(27:88) presented by modern mufassireen as movement of Earth is given in the light of new knowledge. neither the old nor the new interpretation makes one a non-moslim. it is just a matter of a different evidence.

to turn a mozariah into future tense the prefixes 'seen' or 'saufa' are used in the Qoran. Or to turn mozariah into present 'qad' is used.  in this verse neither prefixes are used therefore its meaning can be infered from 'qareena' indication.

those who have translated it as future tense, perhaps, thought it was a matter of yaume mahshar. these peolple in addition also held that the earth is stationary hence the interpretation.
   as for those who regard it as present tense; look at the whole passage before and after, and conclude that amongst it, there are aayahs which clearly discuss present such as 27:86, which is definately present tense and makes changing of day and night as evidence for Allah(S)'s signs.  therefore both meanings are possible and neither is definite. given the facts of science about immediate problems the second interpretation makes more sense. for further contemplation on the issue please study carefully, the arguments of Tahir and sunni revolution about the issue. knowledge is not arrived at in a vaccuum but examination of the whole provides answers to the part...

Eyesight is useless if the insight is blind
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 02:34 AM (#52) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

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Lastly I would like to mention that this alleged claim of Geocentricity is normally associated with the Bible and not the Quran. Alhamdolillah, the Quran is the Heavenly Book, Protected and Unchanged and full of Wisdom and Knowledge for mankind to discover. Man can make mistakes in interpretting it. The Quran however can never be wrong.

Infact it is my firm belief that the Oceanic Knowledge contained within the Quran shall never be fully understood and it will continue to perplex the minds of intellectuals until the end of time.

Knowledge is a Grant of Allah Taalah. We as Sunni Muslims believe that this was Granted in its entirety to Rasool Allah . Shaykh Abdul Haq Muhaddis Dehalwi (RA) has mentioned this under the chapter of Miraaj that Rasool Allah was granted three categories of Knowledge on that Night:

1. This form of Knowledge was for Rasool Allah only and revealing it to any other person was not allowed.

2. This form of Knowledge was left to the judgement of Rasool Allah to distribute to selective individuals whom he wills but not everyone.

3. This form of Knowledge was meant for every person, special or ordinary.

Hence, it would be incorrect to say that any single scholar has understood the Quran in its entirety or has comprehensive knowledge of it.  

In this very thread what some brothers did not realise is that the concept of rotation and revolution of the Earth is not open to debate any longer as perhaps the case during Ala Hazrat's (RA) time (approacing 100 years now). Technology has advanced leaps and bounds during these years with manned space missions into space. Hence, this phenomena is an established fact as clear as day and night and an observed one. However, I must say that after reading Ala Hazrat's (RA) book my heart has been filled with nothing but admiration and joy and the extent of knowledge potrayed and the manner of arguments which may not be of much value in the 21st century but is certainly a masterpiece of its time.

I do not wish to go into the scientific facts as they have already been presented earlier and as I have presented above there is no basis in the Quran for this absurd theory. Infact in ordery to even call it a theory one needs to present all the associated explanations which I have questioned earlier regarding transition of day/night, seasons etc.

To the Muslims who are still confused and do not know any better than follow the approach that has been recommended by our elders of believing whatever the Holy Quran says whatever it may be without choosing A or B. Thus we believe in A if the Holy Quran means A and we choose B if the Holy Quran means B. Walaho Alam. Ala Hazrat (RA) has used this approach in translation of several verses (e.g. 7:54) where he did not translate the word 'Astawa'.

In conclusion, it is better if we Muslims dedicate our energies in protecting the sanctity of the Holy Quran rather than defending century old scholars' outdated scientific research and attributing it to the Noble Quran.


Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 02:44 AM (#53) User is online   Qadri-Jilani 

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It is sad to see some of the ignorance displayed by some brothers, some of the accusations and labels given are totally uncalled for.

We are discussing an issue of science, and science is in constant development. Let us take the example of great Muslim scholars or even Awliya Allah way before the time of Ala Hazrat, if they have written something about science which is completely outdated today and you did not follow that opinion, should I say you are ghustakh of that Wali or Alim? What if Ala Hazrat disagreed with scholars of the past? Some people do not know how to discuss and let me tell you it is a sin to throw such baseless allegations and call them names because of a discussion on science.

(I strongly reccommend brothers to read up on qat'i and zanni)

Some people have hinted at people  being against Islam by not agreeing with this and calling them followers of Darwin and big bang believers etc., to the extent of having no iman, no ishq disrepsecting Ala Hazrat, lacking the blood of Imam Hassan/Hussain... give me a break! Mixing matters like this further highlights a lack in grasping the topic by some of our users

Ala Hazrat was a genious, and my respect for him has only increased considering this book was written in 1900's India with hardly any technological devlopments at the time. To see an Alim in that environment, educated in science (without studying it in a university) is something we sunnis should be proud of.

Let me just repeat, some people have really gone the wrong way about discussing this issue and should ponder over the way have approached the topic. If you want to discuss the topic then prove evidences of the theory and discuss logically with adab instead of saying thing like you have gone against the Qur'an.

We are all brothers on this forum here to enlighten each other.
Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 02:49 AM (#54) User is online   Qadri-Jilani 

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 An important clarification: please do not say you are discussing with the YaNabi Team or asking them a question, when you are discussing you are addressing 16,000 + users who could be on either side of the argument. If you think that all the moderators have the exact same view on every issue and aspect of life, then you are seriously mistaken. The moderators are selected from the users and come from a range of backgrounds and experiences. All of them are not genetically identical and programmed to have the exact same views.

If you have administrative questions, general questions about the site then feel free to address the team.

I have heard about people saying YaNabi.com believes this..that is such a a ridiculous statement which is far from even making sense.

Address your comments and questions to individual users/moderators, either on here or elsewhere.

YaNabi.com - uniting the Ahl as-Sunnah


Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 06:41 AM (#55) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

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Originally posted by: Imran Ali

Currently i am taking a degree in the university in physics.



Originally posted by: Imran Ali

I posted the articles to show that, science is a blunder.

Would you mind explaining to me why you're wasting your time on a
blunder?

I was going to explain fictional forces in relation to gravity, but after realizing that I was speaking to a wall I totally lost the courage. Honestly, some people in our time are a dark stain on Ala Hazrats (ra) repute. They bring nothing but shame to His noble name.


If you claim to love Him; then follow His standards, don't speak about issue without researching. Statements of the year:

I believe earth is stationary because it's moving.

I'm studying physics at university level because I believe it's a blunder.

It doesn't get better than this!


Tahir Riaz



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Posted 09 June 2006 - 09:24 AM (#56) User is offline   Ghulam-e-Alahazrat 

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Assalam-o-Alaikum!
Actually the topic under discussion is directly related to Qur'an and science. It was not required to prove this topic according to scientific ways,as it is already prooved. So there is not need to present any proof from Science. The need is to present something from Quran/hadees.
And I think that non of us has as rank to say something about the Tafseer of Qur'an as compared to Alahazrat.
This is the matter which has created a bit rude environment here. So I think it's simple to sort it out, that Science says that the earth revolves and Qur'an says that it's stationery.(As it is clear from the books presented here, and Muslim scholars cleary said that the earth is static, it cant' move/revolve.)
But if anyone says some thing else regarding Qur'an, he must present any book, any name of a reputed scholar from the past, or atleast any reputed Tafseer which says that the earth revolves. And if he can't then atleast he must not present something at his own from Qur'an. He must accept that Qur'an says that the earth is static. It's not their defeat I think, every body here is ready to accept Haq.
I hope that the brothers which are proving from science will present any clear proof from the past islamic scholars.
Otherwise the solution of this issue is simple.


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Posted 09 June 2006 - 10:31 AM (#57) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

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Originally posted by: Riaz Shahid Qadri Razvi
Assalam-o-Alaikum!
Actually the topic under discussion is directly related to Qur'an and science. It was not required to prove this topic according to scientific ways,as it is already prooved. So there is not need to present any proof from Science. The need is to present something from Quran/hadees.
And I think that non of us has as rank to say something about the Tafseer of Qur'an as compared to Alahazrat.
This is the matter which has created a bit rude environment here. So I think it's simple to sort it out, that Science says that the earth revolves and Qur'an says that it's stationery.(As it is clear from the books presented here, and Muslim scholars cleary said that the earth is static, it cant' move/revolve.)
But if anyone says some thing else regarding Qur'an, he must present any book, any name of a reputed scholar from the past, or atleast any reputed Tafseer which says that the earth revolves. And if he can't then atleast he must not present something at his own from Qur'an. He must accept that Qur'an says that the earth is static. It's not their defeat I think, every body here is ready to accept Haq.
I hope that the brothers which are proving from science will present any clear proof from the past islamic scholars.
Otherwise the solution of this issue is simple.

The rude environment is inflicted upon us by a blind perception. I urge you to go back and reread the whole thread. The elevating labels I have received range from Kafir, Deviant, incompetent to anti Ala Hazrat (ra). These are the same people I have served free of charge for more than 6 years now. Sometimes I hardly sleep more then 4 hours in order to bring you hidden treasures of the Sunni world, but worry not; my reward is with Allah Subhana Watala and not with you. In fact it's a mistake to expect any better from Sunnis. You will as history has proven slit your brothers throat at first opportunity.

No one has claimed that Science is the ultimate truth. If you have bothered reading the posts with an objective mind, you couldn't miss the fact that Science can only provide us theories. Reread this thread from the top and maybe you can picture what is being said.


The Holy Quraan contains knowledge of all things, but what we are able to deduce is limited by what we know. To interpret teachings of the holy Quran one needs a vast amount of knowledge on various subjects, which is not necessarily directly related to the Holy Quraan.  Thus, to interpret scientific indications one needs to understand Science. So, for Gods sake, wake up from this nirvana of ignorance. Stop being so anti Science, not every thing you do is proven from the Holy Quraan. In case you have forgot, you don't drive your car based on teachings of the Holy Quraan.


As my beloved brother Usman has said, the holy Quraan is a book which will be a challenge for humanity through all times. The more we know the more affirmations will we discover. The prosperity of Muslim research can not and will not stop with Ala Hazrat (ra), it will continue till the Day of Judgment.

The Book of Allah will pass the test of time through all times.

It's our misfortune that our scholars are not researching these subjects today. For years I was wondering why Muslims don't have their own satellites, I guess I have found my answer.

Tahir


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Posted 09 June 2006 - 10:52 AM (#58) User is offline   asid 

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Alhamdulillahi rabil aAlameen, wa salaatu wa salaamu alaikha Ya RasoolAllah Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam wa aAlaikha wa aAshaabaikha Radiyallahu 'Anhum ajmaeen.

Asalaamu alaikhum, brother Objective Enquirer, jazakAllah for your reply.

neither the old nor the new interpretation makes one a non-moslim.

By Allah azawajal, I never claimed anyone is a non-Muslim by believing the earth to be in motion or static.

I really appreciate your reply alhamdulillah... however, I need two things clarified please if you do not mind...

1) If aayah 27:88 is to be taken to be for the present tense, and we follow the "modern mufassireen" and we believe the mountains to move like the clouds, would this not then be a contradiction of the following eight aayahs?

15:19, 16:15, 27:61, 41:10, 50:7, 77:27, 78:7 and also 79:32.

Allah azawajal has mentioned in these aayah the mountains to be "anchors", and also "pegs", doesn't this imply that the mountains are stationary and not moving?

So if aayah 27:88 is to be taken in the present tense, there "seems" to be a contradiction with the above eight aayahs. However, if the ayah is to be taken in the future tense, and we say the mountains are stationary, achored etc... and on "yaume mashar" will be caused to move like the clouds when the trumpet is blown, then there seems to be a contradiction with science

A dilemma... in the light of the "modern mufassireen" there seems to be a contradiction within the Quraan. (Please please do tell me otherwise, Allah azawajal forgive any wrongs).

If aayah 27:88 is taken as present tense, then how can we explain the aayahs highlighted in blue? I would be greatful if you could explain to me please and eradicate confusion.

In the light of the "older mufassireen" there seems to be a contradiction between Quraan and science.

The Quraan is the word of Allah azawajal, thus there cannot be a contradiction or error within it, that is a fact everyone will agree upon. If there is a contradiction between Quraan and science, the Quraan again will have the upper hand, as the Quraan is a book by the Creator, and science is the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of the creation, thus science can be wrong, however, the word of Allah azawajal can never be wrong.

Saying this we also need to understand, as brother Objective Enquirer you have beautifully said, the interpretation of an aayah is an individuals understanding, disagreeing with an interpretation does not lead to kuffar, however, disagreeing with the Quraan does.

The people replying on this thread please please note if there is concrete evidence of a scientific theory (a fact) which contradicts a mufassireens interpretation of an aayah, to believe the interpretation to be inncorrect is NOT KUFFAR, however, to say the ayah is wrong is KUFFAR. So please don't throw around the terms KUFFAR, non-muslim etc as the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam to the nearest meaning said "When a Muslim calls another Muslim a kaafir, then one of the two is a kaafir". Please be careful.

Brother Objective Enquirer, as aforementioned, I am open minded inshaAllah azawajal, and if you can eradicate the confusion shown above, I will happily agree the earth to be in motion.

2) Could you please provide the "modern mufassireen" whos interpretation you have provided, I would like to read his/her translation.

Allah azawajal bless you and increase your knowledge and ishq inshaAllah ameen.

P.S although I have asked brother Enquirer to respond, I would be greatful if any knowledgable brother/sister could reply and explain. JazakAllah khair.

Wa alaykhum salaam

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 11:38 AM (#59) User is offline   masd 

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I have nothing to share on this beautiful discussion, sorry for that.

I just wanted to say to Brother Tahir, please dont be dishearted by someone behaviour. I beleive this site is doing a great job for defending true Ahle Sunna WalJamat and i pray Allah subhana watalah reward you for this hard work. Please dont say like "In fact it's a mistake to expect any better from Sunnis. You will as history has proven slit your brothers throat at first opportunity." as not everyone is same. I am sure you are getting blessings of many users as mine.

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 11:56 AM (#60) User is offline   asid 

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Alhamdulillahi rabil aAlameen, wa salaatu wa salaamu alaikha Ya RasoolAllah Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam wa aAlaikha wa aAshaabaikha Radiyallahu 'Anhum ajmaeen.


Watara aljibala tahsabuha jamidatan wahiya tamurru marra alssahabi sunAAa Allahi allathee atqana kulla shayin innahu khabeerun bima tafAAaloona

And you shall see the mountains, you shall think that they are fixed, but they will be passing (like) the passing of the clouds. This is the work of Allah Who made every thing with wisdom. Undoubtedly, He is aware of your works. (27:88)

Wasuyyirati aljibalu fakanat saraban

And the mountains shall be made to move and shall become as they were a mirage. (78:20)

Wayasaloonaka AAani aljibali faqul yansifuha rabbee nasfan

And they ask you regarding mountains, say you, My Lord will squander them breaking into pieces. (20:105)

Wayawma nusayyiru aljibala watara alarda barizatan wahasharnahum falam nughadir minhum ahadan

And the Day We shall cause the mountains to move and you will see the earth clean open and We shall rise them, then We shall not leave any one of them. (18:47)

Dear respectable brother, all these aayahs are addressing the same topic, if I was to agree aayah 27:88 is set in the present time, I cannot however agree with the three other aayahs are talking in present tense. If you read the prior and post aayahs you will realise the topic is the last day e.g.

Wayawma nusayyiru aljibala watara alarda barizatan wahasharnahum falam nughadir minhum ahadan - WaAAuridoo AAala rabbika saffan laqad jitumoona kama khalaqnakum awwala marratin bal zaAAamtum allan najAAala lakum mawAAidan - WawudiAAa alkitabu fatara almujrimeena mushfiqeena mimma feehi wayaqooloona ya waylatana ma lihatha alkitabi la yughadiru sagheeratan wala kabeeratan illa ahsaha wawajadoo ma AAamiloo hadiran wala yathlimu rabbuka ahadan

And the Day We shall cause the mountains to move and you will see the earth clean open and We shall rise them, then We shall not leave any one of them.  - And all shall be presented before your Lord standing in rows. Undoubtedly you have Come to Us same as We had made you at first, but you thought that We would never fix any time of the promise.  - And the book shall be put, then you will see the culprits fearing for what is written therein and will say, 'Oh! Woe to us, what happened to this writing? It left neither any small sin nor a big sin that has not been encompassed, and they found all that they did before them. And your -Lord is not unjust to anyone. Kanzul Eamaan (18:47-49)

Anyone can clearly see this is a reference to the future, also every single aayah shown above, the prior and post aayahs are discussing the last day, and the aayahs concerning the mountains are also in reference to the future, it is in the future that they shall move, and vanish and be destroyed, as currently they are anchored and acting like pegs.

Therefore we cannot use aayah 27:88 or the above three aayahs to justify the movement of mountains in the present day, this movement will occur on the last day as deduced from the Quranic aayahs. Thus I humbly request for those people arguing for the motion of Earth to clarify this.

In a nutshell, what I am "attempting" to say is, you cannot use the above aayahs to justify the movement of the mountains thus suggest the earth is in motion, as these aayahs are reffering to the future. This can be deduced if you study and look at the prior and post aayahs as shown above. If you do attempt to use these aayahs to justify yourself, the burden of proof lies on you to convince confused people like myself.

Allah bless you


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