Spirit Of Islam: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth? - Spirit Of Islam

Jump to content



Icon Important Announcement!

Like us on facebook!


  • 13 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?

Posted 08 June 2006 - 03:03 AM (#21) User is offline   objective-enquirer 

  • Waxing Gibbous
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 2231
  • Joined: 23-April 05

first of all, Tahir sahib has produced a lapidary analysis of the issue and mere dismissive statements would not be sufficient to refute his arguments. it is the argument that needs to replied and not personal attacks; which are considred the weakest form of all evidence in thought and logic.

secondly, whoever brings evidence on this issue from Qoran hakeem, also says that it is an interpretation and the deniar cannot be called a kafir for the reason that the evidence is based on zann i.e. conjecture.

those who provide evidence from the Qoran hakeem of the motion of the earth present the following aayah:

'you see the mountains and think them jamid (motionless); yet they progress, just as clouds progress. such is the handiwork of God, Who has disposed of everything in firmness. He is completely aware of all you do'  (27:88) since clouds move in sky, mountains must also move in spatial direction. clouds moving rapidly in the wind have approx. the same speed as the earth's rotation....please read books on astrophysics about the issue...


Eyesight is useless if the insight is blind
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 07:57 AM (#22) User is offline   masd 

  • Waxing Crescent
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 131
  • Joined: 16-March 06

Excellent discussion going on here. Brothers  please approach the thread acadamically like Brother Tahir and do not label others blindly. Alhamdulillah, we are all muslims and beleive in Quran and Quran does not stop us from thinking.
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 07:58 AM (#23) User is offline   Ghulam-e-Alahazrat 

  • New Moon
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 76
  • Joined: 21-December 04

Originally posted by: objective enquirer

there is no 'proof' from the Qoran but only an interpretation; there are also examples of moslim ulema from the past believing that earth is flat and have argued from Qoran and hadith for their point of view etc. fiqh points to this fallibilty of scholars etc.

Respected Brother!
Perhaps you did not paid attention to name of the book of Alahazrat on this topic it's name if "Nuzool-e-Aayat-e-Furqan Bi Sakoon-e-Zameen o Aasman" and you say there is no 'proof' from Quran. Very amazing. The discussion is not only about that the earth is static, but it's also about that the sun is revolving... you even forgot those verses in which it is clearly said that the sun revolves, even a child knows that the sun revolves......have you not seen that..... if the earth revolses then why you don't revolve???

You say that "
there are also examples of moslim ulema from the past believing that earth is flat and have argued from Qoran and hadith for their point of view etc. fiqh points to this fallibilty of scholars etc".
Why you did not quoted the names of these Muslim Scholars, and the names of the books written in favour of revoling earth???? If you have any please present here.
Here is a link to the book of Alahazrat
"Nuzool-e-Aayat-e-Furqan Bi Sakoon-e-Zameen o Aasman" (in Urdu Language)
It's a short book on this topic, the detailed book is " Fauz-e-Mubeen Dar Radd-e-Harkat-e-Zameen" I think that none of you have read that book, if you had you can't argue which you are doing here. In Fauz-e-Mubeen Alahazrat has presented arguments of Newton (By writting his name), and after that refuted his argurments by physics laws, after that he has presented arguments made by Galileo and refuted his arguments according to the laws of science. Do you know which arguments Newton & Galileo had???
And after refuting their argruments Alahazrat has presented his own arguments and have challenged them to answer these arguments. This historical book is available in English here.
http://www.alahazrat...uz_e_Mubeen.pdf

You are requested to present any book on this topic by any Muslim Scholar..................... Dont trust on your personal mind please.

0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:47 AM (#24) User is offline   asid 

  • New Moon
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 07-June 06

Alhamdulillahi rabil aAlameen, wa salaatu wa salaamu alaikha Ya RasoolAllah Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam wa aAlaikha wa aAshaabaikha Radiyallahu 'Anhum ajmaeen.

Asalaamu alaykhum, I hope and pray everyone is well...

I have been following this thread since it initially started, and I would like to say something that has little relevance to the motion of the earth or the rotation of the sun, however, relevance in respect to the laws of physics.

If we are to look at the equations of motion, we could apply these laws of physics to any physical entity, the earth, the moon, the geostationary satellites, aeroplanes, an apple falling etc...

However, these so called "laws of physics", according to my previous Physics teacher and also numerous web articles and magazines, fail to explain the flight of a bumblebee (it has been proven otherwise now, however, the rules of motion have been bent to justify the bees flight).

If you were to apply the equations of motion on a bumblebee, science would show us it is impossible for the bumblebee to fly. Inorder for the flight of the bumblebee to be taken into consideration, scientists have simplified versions of the equations of the motion and then applied them to explain how a bumblebee may fly. However, these simplified versions cannot be used to solve other motion for specific cases, say like airplane wings.

So they have a generalised version for every other enitity and a simplified version to explain the flight of the bee.

Regarding the movement of the sun we learn through science; the sun and the entire solar system revolve (around the center of the Milky Way galaxy). Not only that, but the Sun rotates on its own axis.

Regarding the movement of the moon, we learn through science; its revolution around Earth takes 27 days, 7 hours, and 43 minutes (approx).

The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed (055.004)

Regarding the motion of the Earth, alhamdulillah, brother objective enquirer has presented us with a beautiful ayah...

'you see the mountains and think them jamid (motionless); yet they progress, just as clouds progress. such is the handiwork of God, Who has disposed of everything in firmness. He is completely aware of all you do' (27:88) 

However Allah azawajal also has said...

Waalarda madadnaha waalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatna feeha min kulli shayin mawzoonin (Al-Hijr 19)

And We have stretched the earth and put therein anchors, and caused to grow therein everything proportionately.

Waalqa fee alardi rawasiya an tameeda bikum waanharan wasubulan laAAallakum tahtadoona (An-Nahl 15)

And He has set up anchors in the earth. Lest it may shake with you and rivers and roads that, you may get direction.

Amman jaAAala alarda qararan wajaAAala khilalaha anharan wajaAAala laha rawasiya wajaAAala bayna albahrayni hajizan ailahun maAAa Allahi bal aktharuhum la yaAAlamoona (An-Naml 61)

Or He Who made the earth for habitation and set amidst it streams and made for it anchors (mountains) and a barrier between the two seas. Is there any other god along with Allah? Nay! Most of them know not.

WajaAAala feeha rawasiya min fawqiha wabaraka feeha waqaddara feeha aqwataha fee arbaAAati ayyamin sawaan lilssaileena (Fussilat 10)

And He placed therein anchors of mountains rising above it and put blessings therein and ordained therein provisions for its inhabitants all this in four days, complete this for the enquirers.

Also see 50:7, 77:27, 78:7 and also 79:32.

I believe when Allah azawajal mentions the mountains to be anchors, this should suffice to say "anchored = stationary". With all due respect brother Objective Enquirer I disagree with you, the ayah that you presented 27:88 was not fully quoted... if you read before you will see...

Wayawma yunfakhu fee alssoori fafaziAAa man fee alssamawati waman fee alardi illa man shaa Allahu wakullun atawhu dakhireena

And the Day when the Trumpet shall be blown, then all those who are in heavens and those in the earth shall be unnerved but he whom Allah wills. And all were present before Him showing humility. (27:87)

Watara aljibala tahsabuha jamidatan wahiya tamurru marra alssahabi sunAAa Allahi allathee atqana kulla shayin innahu khabeerun bima tafAAaloona

And you shall see the mountains, you shall think that they are fixed, but they will be passing (like) the passing of the clouds. This is the work of Allah Who made every thing with wisdom. Undoubtedly, He is aware of your works. (27:88)

What you have quoted is a reference to the Last Day, the Day the Trumpet will be blown, it is only on that day that mankind will think the mountains are fixed, but they will be passing (like) the passing of the clouds.

This only proves the motion of the earth on the Last Day, not the present day.
There is another ayah in the Quran where Allah azawajal states the direct movement of the mountains, this however, is when He azawajal is warning us regarding the end of time...

Itha alshshamsu kuwwirat, Waitha alnnujoomu inkadarat, Waitha aljibalu suyyirat, Waitha alAAisharu AAuttilat...

When the sunshine is folded up, And when the stars fall off, And when the mountains are made to move, And when the pregnant she camels are abandoned... Surah At-Takwir (1-4)

This too is in reference to the Last Day and not the present, as shown above Allah azawajal has told us in numerous places the mountains act like anchors, thus are fixed and not moving... Brother Objective Enquirer, I am extremely open minded inshaAllah, if you can prove otherwise I will humbly and gladly agree with your stance.

May Allah azawajal give us all the opportunity to learn and teach inshaAllah.

0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:54 AM (#25) User is offline   asid 

  • New Moon
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 07-June 06

Alhamdulillahi rabil aAlameen, wa salaatu wa salaamu alaikha Ya RasoolAllah Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam wa aAlaikha wa aAshaabaikha Radiyallahu 'Anhum ajmaeen.


And the Day when the Trumpet shall be blown, then all those who are in heavens and those in the earth shall be unnerved but he whom Allah wills. And all were present before Him showing humility.


'AND you SHALL see the mountains and think them jamid (motionless); yet they progress, just as clouds progress. such is the handiwork of God, Who has disposed of everything in firmness. He is completely aware of all you do'  (27:87-88)

since clouds move in sky, mountains must also move in spatial direction. Clouds moving rapidly in the wind have approx. the same speed as the earth's rotation.... please read books on astrophysics about the issue to learn how the mountains will move ONLY when the trumpet is blown
 


The block capitals with AND and SHALL is something brother Objective Enquirer you failed to see, thus you implied the ayah was for the present time and that is how you presented it... however the words "SHALL see" imply it is for the future... hope you see that wasalaam
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 11:35 AM (#26) User is offline   mynameisimran 

  • Waxing Crescent
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 145
  • Joined: 24-March 06

Here is the answer to those who put science before Alahazrat :

Fictional forces : Coriolis effect


Now to talk about this theory will be to advanced.

Currently i am taking a degree in the university in physics.
When I asked what your qualifications are in physics, I needed to know what kind of physics it will be possible to relate to you.

now to another issue about this thread, i have noticed that "the
 team" has first criticised ala hazart rehmatuAllah`s standpoint. and in an later post advanced to pick faults of my beloved imam abu hanifa rehtuAllah.
just one thing i want to say about that, harat Data Gangj Bukhsh may Allah bestow his grave with blessings and noor.wrote in his book kashaf ul mahjob "i once saw Prophet Muhammad salal la ho wali hi waslim, he was caryying an old man in his lap. on my inquiry the Beloved of Allah salal la ho wali waslim said it is your imam(abu hanifa) i am carrying, when Data sahib woke up he was very pleased.because, he said if imam abu hanfi had walked by himself it would have ment that he could be mistaken in his points, but the honour of being carried by the Prophet salal la ho wali walim ment that he was protectecd from errors" you can read thi yourselfs in his book in the chapter about imam abu hanifa rehmtuAllah.

my friend ahmed raza, people say dont follow blindly.
my friend ahmed raza, what can i do? i am blind.
my freind ahmed raza, where you will go i will follow you.
my freind ahmed raza, you have the fire burning inside which will put out the fire.



0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 01:50 PM (#27) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

  • Administrator
  • View blog
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 9119
  • Joined: 29-March 01

Originally posted by: Imran Ali
Currently i am taking a degree in the university in physics.
When I asked what your qualifications are in physics, I needed to know what kind of physics it will be possible to relate to you.


Brother Imran Ali, I was hoping that you would reflect upon your approach. Let me remind you that no one is imposing their perception upon you; it's you who's labeling others as deviants and even nonbelievers. We are merely discussing various sides of the same topic, and as I have requested you before, if you can't control you emotions, then please refrain from polluting the space.

Just like you, we have immense respect and love for Ala Hazrat (ra), but unfortunately our love is not enough to land a physical drone on Mars. We don't live in a co co dream world; learn to distinguish between facts and fiction.

How you have reached a university without understating basic principals of modern Science is indeed a mystery. Did you pass by saying; I love Ala Hazrat (ra)? One cannot reach a university without applying the same formulas youre defying.

I don't know if my brother's also dispute the fact that Moon orbits earth and it takes approximately around 28 days before one orbit is complete? If nothing else, then know that the Sun is further away from earth then the Moon. Hence, the Suns circumferential orbit area would obviously be larger then Moons.

Let's assume that the Earth doesn't have any sort of physical movement. Well, this leads us to an important question: How does the Sun, which is further away from earth, take 24 hours to complete 1 orbit while the moon takes 1 month.

You don't have to be a scientist to calculate this, take a pen and paper and calculate the numbers. If the Sun has the same speed as the earth we would have 6 months day and 6 months night.

Originally posted by: Imran Ali
my friend ahmed raza, people say dont follow blindly.
my friend ahmed raza, what can i do? i am blind.
my freind ahmed raza, where you will go i will follow you.
my freind ahmed raza, you have the fire burning inside which will put out the fire.
Lastly, Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (ra) is your Imam and not your friend. I believe you should first lookup the difference between a friend and an Imam in light of Islamic Jurisprudence before pursuing Suns orbit around the Earth any further.

Ya Hassan

Tahir




Administrator
YaNabi Team
-Only A Good Human Being Can Become A Good Muslim
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 04:25 PM (#28) User is offline   Secular-Revolution 

  • Full Moon
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6163
  • Joined: 17-October 04

Assalam Alaikum,

MashAllah, it has been a long time since we have had an intellectual discussion of this magnitude and I would advise some of the participants to keep their grandma tantrums at bay and discuss in a manner fit for university studends and/or post graduates not kindergarten kids.

Before exploring this topic further I would like to seek clarification from the brother's who oppose the movement of Earth whether it is the Rotation (Spinning about its own axis), Revolution (orbit around the Sun) or both they do not accept?



Kaabay Kis Mun Se Jao Ge SR!
Sharam Tum Ko Magar Nahin Aati

The difference between the Mullah and Satan is that the latter is not a hypocrite!
[Secular Revolution - the artist formerly known as Sunni Revolution]
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 04:39 PM (#29) User is offline   Muhammad_Mobasher_Muhammadi 

  • MMM
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • View blog
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4132
  • Joined: 20-October 05
  • LocationDubai, UAE

Assalaamualaikum!

I wanted to share this thread:http://www.yanabi.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=80&threadid=13719&highlight_key=y&keyword1=ALAHAZRAT%20AS%20SCIENTIST

You can take a quick look at the highlighted part where Alahazrat has given examples.

JAZAK ALLAH WA ALAIKUM ASSALAAM


What is the constant concern of The Holy Prophet Alayhis Salaatu Wa Salaam? The Forgiveness of His Ummah. Struggle for it.

A common human being uses no more than 3 percent of his brain's total capability. Where do you use the remaining 97 percent when there is nothing meaningless or unnecessary in God's creation? In search of His Ma'arifah, in the path of spirituality - to Know Him.
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 04:55 PM (#30) User is offline   objective-enquirer 

  • Waxing Gibbous
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 2231
  • Joined: 23-April 05

Originally posted by: objective enquirer

there is no 'proof' from the Qoran but only an interpretation; otherwise the deniars would become kafir!! the consensus of Moslim mufassireen in the modern world is that the earth is in motion based on new knowledge available to us. we have the ability today to actually look back at earth objectively from space and observe its motion etc. there are also examples of moslim ulema from the past believing that earth is flat and have argued from Qoran and hadith for their point of view etc.science, when it claims guidance for us, in terms of origin of man, our purpose in life etc.. then we do not follow it. we only trust science in our immediate problems and not in ultimate problems.  the motion of earth is not an ultimate problem. just because someone great from the past has said something does not mean, we blindly have to follow. there is a difference between a theory and fact. the motion of earth is a fact.Imam Abu Hanifah® is by far greater in every respect to aalahazrat; even He got 58 masail wrong and the whole notion of sahibain in fiqh points to this fallibilty of scholars etc.


here is the post from which brother shahid qadri you have quoted. can you see that the 'proof' from the Qoran in absolute means that if you deny then one becomes kafir??? please furnish such 'proof'? if you cannot then atleast admit that the matter is speculative(zanni).

for brother asid mahmood, well please explain the words in arabic which turn a mozariah into mustaqbil? whether present tense or future tense, both must be explained. i think HANDIWORK is an indication within the aayah itself.

although all interpretation will remain zanni...it is a matter of science so it must seek an answer from science. 

Eyesight is useless if the insight is blind
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 05:05 PM (#31) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

  • Administrator
  • View blog
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 9119
  • Joined: 29-March 01

Originally posted by: Riaz Shahid Qadri Razvi
Perhaps you did not paid attention to name of the book of Alahazrat on this topic it's name if "Nuzool-e-Aayat-e-Furqan Bi Sakoon-e-Zameen o Aasman" and you say there is no 'proof' from Quran. Very amazing. The discussion is not only about that the earth is static, but it's also about that the sun is revolving... you even forgot those verses in which it is clearly said that the sun revolves, even a child knows that the sun revolves......have you not seen that..... if the earth revolses then why you don't revolve???


I understand that some people can be dismissive of a given scientific idea with the notion: that's just a theory. Well, they are very right as science can only provide us theories. However the known theories have proven to be quite useful. We don't jump off the top of a building because of the results predicated by Newton's theory of gravitation even though it's "just a theory".

As I have already described, Copernicus's theory of the heliocentric solar system and Newtown's gravitation theory, has been the basis for ALL our space expeditions. They didn't lead us to moon by accident, yet some will still argue they are only theories. I might be wrong in my assumption but I believe a theory turns into an Established fact when it's able to produce a repeated experience or observation in accordance with the predicated inferences.

So, looking at the inductive and deductive inferences it's only fair to say that Earth being absolute stationary represents a probability of 0.

If my brothers have bothered reading the recommended book by Ala Hazrats (ra), then they would have known that it's not a text book on the subject. It presents hypostasis asserted as a conjuncture to guide further investigation. Let me make it clear that there is no such thing as Ala Hazrats (ra) formula for Suns Orbit around the Earth in it, unless I have missed it.

Honestly, reading this book last night, I was once again impressed by the Genius. Ala Hazrats (ra) ability to assess a scientific topic in light of the Holy Quraan is indeed impressive and commendable. If only our Sunni Scholars could continue his work. I guess it's a lot easier to speak about his fatwa against Deobandis than his scientific research.

Ya Hussain

Tahir


Administrator
YaNabi Team
-Only A Good Human Being Can Become A Good Muslim
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:06 PM (#32) User is offline   mynameisimran 

  • Waxing Crescent
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 145
  • Joined: 24-March 06

By objective enquirer :


with due respect dear brother, the above claim about the earth being still is incorrect. it is only an out dated interpretation. the Sacred aayah can also be understood as stating that Allah(S) is holding the earth so it does not 'move' out of orbit hence causing an end to life....



by Tahir Riaz :

Brother Imran Ali, I was hoping that you would reflect upon your approach. Let me remind you that no one is imposing their perception upon you; it's you who's labeling others as deviants and even nonbelievers. We are merely discussing various sides of the same topic, and as I have requested you before, if you can't control you emotions, then please refrain from polluting the space.


Hmmm. Yes it is I who is "labeling others as deviants" .

By Tahir Riaz :

How you have reached a university without understating basic principals of modern Science is indeed a mystery. Did you pass by saying; I love Ala Hazrat (ra)? One cannot reach a university without applying the same formulas youre defying.

What you refer as "basic principals of modern Science" include teachings of Darwin, include denial of Prophet Mohammed(saaws) miraj, includes denial of exsistence of Allah, existence of miracles, existence of  an afterlife. I allways know the truth in my heart, and it is there i deny their teachings.


Serioulsy, think one more time about what you are suggesting. Show me one post where I am referring to you as deviants. What you guys are doing is going against the islamic consensous, and clearly referring to us who believe other wise as misguided because of "recent" scientific facts also referred to by you as common knowledge.


This is my scientic proof(Even if this may not be a proff, for me the words of Alahazrat will suffice) that earth is stationary, (while the cosmos around is in motion could be a possiblility, like we circumbate the kaba, the cosmos circumabates earth, which is in the center of of all worlds) :

In physics/mathematics, "recently" a new field has been created :

fictional forces

There is a effect which accurs because of "earth,s rotation"(which is not true, since earth is stationary, however this will be proved very soon) which is referred as coriolis effect.

Now this is what fictional forces are in a nutshell:

Non existent forces, created to satisfy observational and experimental physics/mathematics. 

see wikipedia :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force

What is the Coriolis Force? (taken from http://www.aip.org/dbis/stories/2004/14047.html)


The Coriolis force is responsible for the spiraling of hurricanes and other large weather patterns. It also causes projectiles fired over long distances, such as artillery shells, to curve to one side. Pilots must also correct for the tendency of their flight paths to bend as a result of the Coriolis force.

Oddly enough, the Coriolis force is not a true force. It is what physicists call a fictional force.It is the apparent sideways force on an object moving across a rotating surface. In the case of hurricanes, cannon balls, and airplanes, it's the Earth's rotation that leads to the Coriolis force.

To get a feel for the origin of the force, imagine a boy and a girl on a playground carousel spinning counter-clockwise, with the boy standing at the edge and the girl standing at the very center. Now, suppose the girl in the center throws a ball toward her friend on the edge. In the time that the ball is in flight, the carousel has carried the boy a few feet to his right.

From the boy's perspective, the ball appears to have curved away and landed to his left. Of course, anyone on solid ground could tell that the ball moved in a straight line and that the boy moved away from it. That's why the Coriolis force is fictional; it looks as if a force is causing it to curve, but really the child's motion is just giving the appearance that the ball is curving.

In the Northern hemisphere, the Coriolis force deflects projectiles to the right and makes hurricanes spiral counter-clockwise. In the Southern hemisphere, things are reversed, with projectiles curving to the left and hurricanes spinning clockwise.

Although many people, including some misinformed scientists, believe that the Coriolis force determines the direction water rotates as it drains out of sinks and bathtubs, the force is much too tiny to affect the motion of water on such small scales. Instead, the way water drains in a sink has a lot more to do with the shape of the container and random currents in the water.

On the other hand, the Coriolis force can affect rivers. Riverbanks in the Northern hemisphere erode more rapidly on the right because of the right-handed Coriolis forces, while riverbanks in the Southern hemisphere erode more rapidly on the left.

more from wikipedia :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_Effect

I feal very depressed right now. This thread will be my last. I will leave after this tread is finished. I feal like i have wasted hours, after hours, thinking that I had finally found pillars of support.
This whole thread has shown me that you guys have no authority in managing yanabi.com. When an ignorant like me knows the truth, and those valued users are being disregarded when they speak against you..... You guys are pushing your opinions on us, and at the same time going against what is muslim consensous.


0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:31 PM (#33) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

  • Administrator
  • View blog
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 9119
  • Joined: 29-March 01

Originally posted by: Imran Ali
Hmmm. Yes it is I "who is labeling others as deviants" .
Serioulsy think one more time about what you are suggesting. Show me one post where I am referring to you as deviants. What you guys are doing is going against the islamic consensous, and clearly referring to us who believe other wise as misguided because of "recent" scientific facts also referred to by you as common knowledge.



Dear brother Imran, as student of advanced physics at university level, I do expect some sort of rational awareness from you. At least try not to make contradictions within the same paragraph.

If you impose something on people you force them to accept it. Do you have the slightest clue about the distinction between an imposition and a statement?

Originally posted by: Imran Ali
What you guys are doing is going against the islamic consensous

For your information breaking a Islamic consensus is a form of deviancy. It can in some cases even lead to Kufr. The scripture authenticity of the Holy Quraan you hold in your hands can only be proven through consensus, one who denies this is outside the fold of Islam. Make up your mind, are we deviants or are we not? Please, chose your words wisely and address the issue and not the man.

Originally posted by: Imran Ali
Oddly enough, the Coriolis force is not a true force. It is what physicists call a fictional force.It is the apparent sideways force on an object moving across a rotating surface. In the case of hurricanes, cannon balls, and airplanes, it's the Earth's rotation that leads to the Coriolis force.

Excuse me; wasn't earth supposed to be "absolute" stationary? 

I will deal with your "Evidence" in the next post.

Tahir





Administrator
YaNabi Team
-Only A Good Human Being Can Become A Good Muslim
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:45 PM (#34) User is offline   mynameisimran 

  • Waxing Crescent
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 145
  • Joined: 24-March 06

by Imran Ali :

There is a effect which accurs because of "earth,s rotation"(which is not true, since earth is stationary, however this will be proved very soon) which is referred as coriolis effect.


By tahir riaz excuse me; wasn't earth supposed to be "absolute" stationary? Please do read what your write first. I will deal with your "Evidence" in the next post...


by Tahir Riaz:

For your information breaking a Islamic consensus is a form of deviancy. It can in some cases even lead to Kufr. The scripture authenticity of the Holy Quraan you hold in your hands can only be proven thru consensus, one who denies this is outside the fold of Islam. Make up your mind, are we deviants or are we not? Please, chose your words wisely and address the issue and not the man.



1. Yawn
2. you are really boring
3. Is it or is it not the muslim consenseous that earth is stationary? I if it is, then maybe you should think twice before you suggest otherwise.
4. If science cannot implemment newtons law if speed reaches 0.1 times speed of ligth, if forces acurring, which can only be described by fictious forces, then i think, i will rather listen to Ala Hazrat, then common knowledge. However the point is that i will beleive in Alahazrat no matter what. When someone loves someone, one does not find any faults by them, but when one loves a person who allredy is perfect how can you attach faults to them?
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:58 PM (#35) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

  • Administrator
  • View blog
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 9119
  • Joined: 29-March 01

Originally posted by: Imran Ali
This is my scientic proof(Even if this may not be a proff, for me the words of Alahazrat will suffice) that earth is stationary,

Originally posted by: Imran Ali
Oddly enough, the Coriolis force is not a true force. It is what physicists call a fictional force.It is the apparent sideways force on an object moving across a rotating surface. In the case of hurricanes, cannon balls, and airplanes, it's the Earth's rotation that leads to the Coriolis force.

The rest is a part of the public record and I don't need deduce the logical conclusion. Brother Imran, you should probably signup for some circus as you would make a good character there.

Yes, one needs fiction to disprove something factually correct. Hence, you have picked the right topic: Fictional forces.

I will wait for your full "evidence" before i teach you something about Facts and Fiction.

Ya Ali

Tahir



Administrator
YaNabi Team
-Only A Good Human Being Can Become A Good Muslim
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 07:08 PM (#36) User is offline   mynameisimran 

  • Waxing Crescent
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 145
  • Joined: 24-March 06



The articles do not reflect my believes, but are the current scientific belives held by academics. I posted the articles to show that, science is a blunder. The point I was trying to present was that we should not follow science above the clear words of Alahazrat.


By Tahir Riaz :The rest is a part of the public record and I don't need deduce the logical conclusion. Brother Imran, you should probably signup for some circus as you would probably make a good character there.

Aren't you acting a bit childish........

Again:  Yawn           
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 08:32 PM (#37) User is offline   Ghulam-e-Alahazrat 

  • New Moon
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 76
  • Joined: 21-December 04

During my F.Sc. one day our Physics Professor said that the sky which we see is nothing, it's just a space and nothing in reality, and he said that our islam also dont say anything about it. One boy stood up and said, why Islam dont say anything? Sir! tell me when our Aaqa went to Mairaaj, he met a lot of prophets on different skies (and every body knows that), professor Sb. also said that yest it was. He asked that Sir! tell me that were these prophets were standing in the space? or on any solid thing?
This made the whole class laugh and professor sb. has no reply.
This is the Science.....................
Many baseless theories only...............
We must not refute truth at all. The truth is that the earth is static.(it can't revolve, can't move)


0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 08:38 PM (#38) User is offline   Sag_e_Attar 

  • Waxing Crescent
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 284
  • Joined: 21-November 05

Date: 2006.06.08
YaNabi Moderator: Irfan Raza Khan
Comments: Please stick to the topic being discussed,


کلک رضاوہ خنجر خونخواربرق بار
اعداسےکہہ دو خیرمنائیں نہ شرکریں
0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 08:53 PM (#39) User is offline   asid 

  • New Moon
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 07-June 06

Alhamdulillahi rabil aAlameen, wa salaatu wa salaamu alaikha Ya RasoolAllah Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam wa aAlaikha wa aAshaabaikha Radiyallahu 'Anhum ajmaeen.

for brother asid mahmood, well please explain the words in arabic which turn a mozariah into mustaqbil? whether present tense or future tense, both must be explained. i think HANDIWORK is an indication within the aayah itself.

Asalaamu alaikhum, brother Objective... hope your well inshaAllah, first and foremost... you blessed us with the following ayah...

'you see the mountains and think them jamid (motionless); yet they progress, just as clouds progress. such is the handiwork of God, Who has disposed of everything in firmness. He is completely aware of all you do'  (27:88)

What I was pointing out to you was, you have given a translation shown above and are implying it is with reference to how the earth is in motion... however if we look at any translation...

KANZUL EAMAAN: And you shall see the mountains, you shall think that they are fixed, but they will be passing (like) the passing of the clouds. This is the work of Allah Who made every thing with wisdom. Undoubtedly, He is aware of your works.

YUSUFALI: Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do.

SHAKIR: And you see the mountains, you think them to be solid, and they shall pass away as the passing away of the cloud-- the handiwork of Allah Who has made every thing thoroughly; surely He is Aware of what you do.

All of the above with the words "shall see" and "shall pass away" imply it is in the future, moreover, if you look at ayah 27:87 it is talking about the day when the Trumpet shall be blown... and this ayah is a follow up... how can it be plausible that ayah 27:88 is talking about the motion of the earth now?

With all due respect could you convince me Allah azawajal is talking about the current state of the mountains, and from this ayah is mentioning the motion of the earth... as I have shown EIGHT ayahs where Allah azawajal has mentioned the mountains are fixed like pegs i.e. stationary... thus how can you justify using ayah 27:88 to say that the mountains are presently moving as the clouds move and also from this derive the earth is also in motion?

Wa alaykhum salaam
 

0

Posted 08 June 2006 - 08:58 PM (#40) User is offline   sabina-khayam 

  • Waxing Crescent
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 240
  • Joined: 01-December 05

Aslamwalaikum

you have really confused me, and i guess many others, i thought it was the earth revolved on its axis, but by islam it did not revolve around the earth.

But everything revolved around the earth (doing tawaf of the KABA??? WELL THATS WHAT I HEARD, ANYONE ELSE HEARD THE SAME??
hazrat umar (may allah be pleased with him) said "If a voice called from the sky and said all the people on earth are dwellers of heaven apart from one, I would fear that one to be me." "If I heard a voice call from the sky saying all the people on earth are dwellers of hell apart from one I would hope that one would be me!"
0

Share this topic:


  • 13 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options
  Or sign in with these services