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Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?

Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:53 PM (#1) User is offline   Sag_e_Attar 

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Question? May 28, 1998
WHAT IS THE RULING OF SHARIA ON THE MOVEMENT OF EARTH. GIVE EXPLAINATION.


Imam reply:
According to the teaching of Quran and Hadith, the sky and earth are stationary and planets rotate. It is the sun that moves around the earth while the earth does not move around the sun. There are many verses of the Holy Quran, clearly show the rotation of the moon and the sun, which are given as under. 1) "O And made the sun and the moonsubservient. Each runs to a turns stated" (Al Quran, part 13, Sure Al-Ra'ad (The thunder)-13, V 2)

2) "And He made the sun and the moon subservient for you which are constantly moving" (Al-Quran, part 13, Sura Abraheem - 14, Verse 23)

3) And each (The moon the sun) is floating in an orbit." (Al-Quran, part 23, Sura Yaseen - 36, verse 140)

It is thus quiet clear that the sun moves and it is obligatory upon every muslim to believe it. Because it is waht Allah Almighty ordains us to believe. In the light of the Holy Quran and Hadit the theory of the rotation of the earth is absolutely wrong. Allah Almighty says : "Undoubtedly, Allah has with held the heavens and the earth least they move." (AL-Quran) In the look "Fiq-hus- Sahaba Baad-Al- Khulfa-e- Alarba" there has been recorded a statement/saying of k'ab in the presense of Syedna Abdullah bin Masood, the man who keeps the secrets of messanger of Allah (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) and syedna Huzaifa bin Alyaman (Allah weel pleased with them).
 
This statement of K'ab is "The heaven revolves". Both person said agreeably "K'ab said incorrect and undoubtedly . Allah has with held the heaven and the earth least they move. And Abdullah Bin Masood (Allah Well Pleased With Him) supporting this statement added that Allah's commandment is enough for us, and they (Heavens & Earth) do not move. This statement has been narrated by Saeed bin Mansoor (Allah Well pleased With Him) and abd bin Hameed son of Jareer, son of Almanzer (Allah Well pleased With Him) and they narrated it with reference of Hafiz bin Abd ibne Hameed (Allah Well pleased With Him). There are few people in our times who try to explain the Holy Quran according to the modern theory of science.

In this regard, they proclaim that the Holy Quran also proves the rotation of the earth, in order to divert the attention of scientest to the Hol Quran. Whether theses people are sinciar in their feeling or not but in this respect their behaviour is clearly against the teaching of Quran and Hadith. Because this type of thinking obviously, opposes the general consensus of the Ummah. We advise them to believe in what ever Allah Almighty has mentioned, Weather it is according to the science or not.

In the past there were many people who tried to make the Holy Quran coordinate with science by changing the real meaning of the Holy Quran. Sir syed Ahmad Khan was also one of them, who changed the meaning of Quran due to the scientific researches of his time. He refused the ascention (Mairaj) of the Holy Prophet (Allah's Grace & peace be upon Him) with body and soul because of the theory of newton that "nothing can reach in the space". But now a days Newton's theory harshly unacceptable near the scientists and Ein Stien proved that it is possible to send the matter in the space. Now no one dare to reject the ascension (Mairaj) of the Holy Prophet (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) with body and soul.

The above incident proves that as far as human knowledge is concerned, we find from examination that this knowledge is limited and it is not comprehensive. As Aldous Huxly says "The fact is obvious as day light that not only have we not reached perfaction of knowledge but we have not even gone beyond the ABC of knowledge." Hume also states that as far as the laws of nature are conerned, scientist can not say that this form a comprehansive knowledge of nature. Man's knowlwdge of world has grown and many things that we believed by even the learned men in former times, are shown now a days to be wrong. Some people for example were under impression that water can not be divided.

Modern chemistry has shown that this is wrong and have reduced water to its elements of hydrogen and oxigen. So, as a result, we can say that it is undeniable and eluminating fact that the knowledge of scientists is not final in any case and it changes time to time. While on the other hand the knowledge of Quran is final and unchangable because its source is Allah Almighty who is All knowing and creator of the universe.

http://www.dawateislami.net/services/imam/answer.asp?questionid=21&title=View



کلک رضاوہ خنجر خونخواربرق بار
اعداسےکہہ دو خیرمنائیں نہ شرکریں
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:55 PM (#2) User is offline   mynameisimran 

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Quran is Haq.

Quran is the absolutt truth.

Quran is word of Allah.
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:46 AM (#3) User is offline   objective-enquirer 

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with due respect dear brother, the above claim about the earth being still is incorrect. it is only an out dated interpretation. the Sacred aayah can also be understood as stating that Allah(S) is holding the earth so it does not 'move' out of orbit hence causing an end to life....


Eyesight is useless if the insight is blind
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 01:09 AM (#4) User is offline   mynameisimran 

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What does Alahazrat(ra) say?
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 01:40 AM (#5) User is online   Qadri-Jilani 

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Please read older threads on this.
Maslak-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat

jarahat al-sinani laha'l-tiyamu ma yaltamu jarahat al-lisani
ei biradar chu 'aqibat khakast, khaak shawesh az ankei khaak shawee
apni millat par qiyas aqwam-e-maghrib sei na kar, khas hei tarkeeb mein qawm-e-Rasool-e-Hashmi
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 01:48 AM (#6) User is offline   Rizwan-Aziz 

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http://www.sunnirazvi.org/qadiri/glance/physicist.htm
Do not ask the Lord to guide ur footsteps If you are not willing to move ur feet
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 02:45 AM (#7) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

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Originally posted by: Rizwan Aziz

http://www.sunnirazvi.org/qadiri/glance/physicist.htm

Nice article, but there is one mistake in it. Earths movement around the Sun is not a theory; it's a well established scientific fact. Our love and respect for Ala Hazrat (ra) should not enforce our illations towards an unfavorable stand.

I hope my brothers don't see my comments as a normative rebellion. No, I'm just trying to communicate that being acolyte doesn't always yield the correct result.

We have to look at what we know and not only what we knew!

Think about this before you reply.....

Ya Ali


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Posted 06 June 2006 - 03:50 PM (#8) User is offline   Zarb-e-Haidari 

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Dear brothers and sisters Aslamoalikum,

Are we made of clay ? what is ment by clay ... this is just one way that people could understand. If it was to tell us the names of all the elements that we were created by what names would the Holy Qur'aan have used when those elements were discovered long after and had not been even named.. for us clay is enough...

We should only accept the Holy Qur'aan and the Ahadeeth on this matter. Our knowledge is not enough to understand everything.

Science is not the the answer to understanding all subjects. History has shown the masters of science have been proven wrong in time.

We must increase our knowledge to be able to understand as to what is ment by those words in context of the subject in the surah.

The Torah has words that at that time applied to people so as to make it simple for them to understand. Had the Holy Qur'aan stated that the Earth was moving then there would have been many who would have not believed it as they would  have been able prove just as Ahla Hazhrat (ra) that the Earth is at a stand still...

When the Holy Qur'aan talks about other things that cannot be proven by people to be incorrect, in time they become acceptable just as the verse which states that the male determins the gender of a child at the time of its conception. Until they became advanced in the science of genetics they did not accept the Qur'aan.
 
Likewise time will prove that the Holy Qur'aan is correct in saying that the Earth is stationary as you would say that the the Earth is still and everything around it moves.

Where does movement time and space originate from ? A person could be standing but still the blood inside him is moving ! The universe is in a constant motion even the sun is moving... But it behaves as though it is stationary...!

As one of the signs of Kiyamat would be that the Sun would come closer to the Earth...!

We accept all that is in the Holy Qur'aan even if we cannot understand it now due to lack of knowledge.


Jazaak Allah Khairan


Ali (as) e Imam e manasto manum ghulaam e Ali (as)
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 09:11 PM (#9) User is offline   mynameisimran 

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Allah, in His name i commence.
Asalat to Wasalam lo alaika Ya RassollAh,
Asalat to Wasalam lo alaika YA Habib Allah,
Asalat to Wasalam lo alaika Ya Noor Allah.
it is laughable to see people discuss ayat`s and surah`s of the Quran, and hold their interpertation over Ala Hazrat`s perception, understanding and interpertation of the Quran. you people whom write here, i can safely say that none of you are honured by the company of majlis of RasoolAllah, majlis of sahaba, majlis of tabiyin or the majlis of the auliya. Ala Hazrat was such a person, whom was honured with such majlis. and criticising Ala Hazarat`s taqlid is also laughable.
and when it comes to sicience your knowledge is equally laughable, you dont`t even know that sun in the centrum of our galaxy is just a theory and not a proof. to establish about the earth`s motion or the sun`s motion you have to be out side of our own galaxy to get another observation point. refering to einstein theory that two cases can have at least two observational differenses.
so that perception of something is established upon the observer.
established facts you talk about, it is a scientific "fact" (theory) that nothing can mover faster thn the speed of light, (for someone intressted in a "new" theory http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=2544) you guys tell me one thing, did or did not RasoolAllah salal la ho waali hi waslim goto Miraj?(Sahibi Taji Wal Miraji salal la ho waali hi waslim) keep in mind that science says that their are millions of galaxy in our universe.how is that science says that when you reach the speed of light that mass goes up to the number infinity.how is it possible that Rasool Allah salal la ho waali hi waslim went on Miraj and came back (keeping in mind that our nearest galaxy andromeda is 2,2million light years away) while the door chain was still dangling and the bed was still warm?
i can give you hundreds of examples of Rasool Allah only that defy the perception of science, "kalma Tera (salal la ho waslim) parte hain rorre". an atheist scientist once asked allama iqbal may Allah bless his soul, "iqbal tell me one thing, why do you believe that their is a God. iqbal said tell me one thing first, has science ever proven Rasool Allah salal la ho waali waslim wrong? iqbal answered himself, science has never proven my Rassol Allah salal la ho waali waslim wrong and never will, if he says their is a God then their is a God".the perception of faith is much stronger then the intellect, and the perception of love(because of Allah and Rasool Allah salal la ho waali hi waslim) is at a point where even faith cannot reach, sultan bahu rhemtuAllah said "jis muqam no ishiq phunche, iman no ode di khabbar bhi nahi".
conclusion: Ala Hazrat is right and science is wrong.(must i remind that none of you even comes close to Ala Hazart regarding wordly knowledge of science and mathematics)
what i have read on this post has been a grave disappointment, disappointment in the field of knowledge worldy and religious. it has been a disappointment when it comes to iman. and shows lack of ishq, it shows the lack of blood of imam Hasan radhi Allah anu and imam Hussein radhi Allah anu in the veins.
i have used this account to write this anonmously, i don`t want to start a discussion. i don`t want a reply. if somebody wants to hold me accountable, drag me to the court of Khwaja Gharib Nwaz radhi Allah anu or Ghus e azam radhi allah anu, or take me to the court of Rasool Allah salal la ho waali hi waslim.
my Allah forgive my sins.
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 10:03 PM (#10) User is offline   Zarb-e-Haidari 

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Masha Allah I agree , as I stated before we lack knowledge and I too agree with Ala Hazhrat (ra) as I stated before above...

"Likewise time will prove that the Holy Qur'aan is correct in saying that the Earth is stationary as you would say that the the Earth is still and everything around it moves".

You have labled us all the same yet we differ and I have never disrespected Ahla Hazhrat (ra).. So I request you to take those words back as we all do not fall in that catagory.

Secondly I  again stress my Muslim bros not to go against the teaching of the Qur'aan and Rasool Allah just becuase at this time you do not understand, it does not mean you start to follow the Science theory pushers.

Now in regards to your RUDE comments about the lack of Blood of Hussain (as) You should not say this as it is being disrespectful even if it is true.

Theories will come and go the Quraan is the Ultimate unfallable truth...!

Jazak Allah Khairan

Ali (as) e Imam e manasto manum ghulaam e Ali (as)
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Posted 07 June 2006 - 09:53 AM (#11) User is offline   Ghulam-e-Alahazrat 

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Assalam-o-Alaikum,
The 1st thing is that this is not alone Alahazrat's opinion, a lot of Ulama's have the same opinion that Earth is static. Because Alahazrat also had scientific knowledge thefore he discussed these issues in detail.
"ZAMEEN AZ HUBB-E-UO SAKIN,
 FALAK AZ RUKH-E-UO SHAIDA"
(Molana Jami Alaihe Rahmah)

Alahzrat has refuted all the arguments of Newton and Galileo, not only from Quran and Sunnah but also from scientific way.
Science also claimed the earth to be static before Newton.
So it is not an issue to be confused i think. Here is the glorious book Fauz-e-Mubeen in English, if any of us could approach to some scientists who can look into it deeply, it will be better In Sha Allah.
And I believe that they can't refute the proofs in it.
http://www.alahazratnetwork.org/english/Fauz_e_Mubeen.pdf

Was Salam


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Posted 07 June 2006 - 03:36 PM (#12) User is offline   SlaveOfAllah 

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Aslam u alaikum,

Do we know if this is actually an estabilished fact? as doing a little research I come across the following site:-

Did Galileo have Proof of the Earth's Movement?
http://muse.tau.ac.il/museum/galileo/did_galileo.html

Aristotle actually disagreed with Galileo and said that the earth is the centre and other planets such as the sun etc revolve around it..Aristole had similiar arguments to Hazrat Imam Ahmed Raza..so not sure..anyway I believe whatever is in the Quran, dont care if it goes against the so called established facts or not..Quran is the truth..end of.
Praise be to Allah, the Lord of all the worlds, the All-Merciful, the Most Merciful, the King of the Day of Judgement. You alone we worship. You alone we ask for help. Guide us on the Straight Path, the Path of those You have blessed, not of those with anger on them, nor of the misguided.


(Qur'an, 1:1-7)
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Posted 07 June 2006 - 07:49 PM (#13) User is offline   Sag_e_Attar 

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Asalam-o-Aleakum,
i think there is no need of argument... bcoz every muslim beleive on Quran.. and we have prove from quran that earth is still...
and also we have prove from Aala Hazrat (radi allah anhu) book & i think this is the final point.. Aala Hazrat write a book on this topic named "NOZUL-E-AYAT-E-FORQAN BUSQON ZAMEEN-O-ASMAN"
in which  he has  proved that  earth  is stationary. kindly  inform  if  it  is  available  on  net.
Wasalam Ma'Al Ikram

کلک رضاوہ خنجر خونخواربرق بار
اعداسےکہہ دو خیرمنائیں نہ شرکریں
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Posted 07 June 2006 - 09:29 PM (#14) User is offline   objective-enquirer 

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there is no 'proof' from the Qoran but only an interpretation; otherwise the deniars would become kafir!! the consensus of Moslim mufassireen in the modern world is that the earth is in motion based on new knowledge available to us. we have the ability today to actually look back at earth objectively from space and observe its motion etc.
 there are also examples of moslim ulema from the past believing that earth is flat and have argued from Qoran and hadith for their point of view etc.

science, when it claims guidance for us, in terms of origin of man, our purpose in life etc.. then we do not follow it. we only trust science in our immediate problems and not in ultimate problems.
  the motion of earth is not an ultimate problem. just because someone great from the past has said something does not mean, we blindly have to follow. there is a difference between a theory and fact. the motion of earth is a fact.

Imam Abu Hanifah® is by far greater in every respect to aalahazrat; even He got 58 masail wrong and the whole notion of sahibain in fiqh points to this fallibilty of scholars etc.

Eyesight is useless if the insight is blind
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Posted 07 June 2006 - 10:54 PM (#15) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

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Before persue this topic from a tecnincal angle, i whole heartely recommend the following lecture by Syed Zahid Hussain Shah Shaib.
Ascension and rules of gravitation


If you drop an apple, it will fall towards earth. Modern science teaches us about gravity being a force which causes objects to be attracted towards each other. The object with lesser mass will always move towards the one with bigger mass.

The Sunni methodology has its own explanation to this which is far more universal then Newton's gravitation law. Syed Zahid Hussain Shah Shaib applies the rule to Meraj-un-Nabi and presents some beautiful analysis.
Tahir
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Posted 07 June 2006 - 11:55 PM (#16) User is offline   Zarb-e-Haidari 

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I think instead of looking left and right for explanations what does the Holy Quraan says on this ?

Please read those Ayahs and  then explain as to what they say and mean.

We are going all over the place without even looking at what the Holy Quraan is saying......Why ?


Ali (as) e Imam e manasto manum ghulaam e Ali (as)
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 12:29 AM (#17) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

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Let's begin with some basic information about our solar system and its factual realties known to man. The most prominent feature in our solar system is the Sun, a medium star, and it approximately contains 98% of the total mass present in our solar system.

Calculations show that 109 Earths are needed to fit across the Suns disk and its interior could hold over 1.3 million earths. Speaking about earth, there are in total 9 planets in our solar system Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. In addition there are numerous comets and asteroids.

Why am I talking about this, well I'm sure most of you know that "we" have made a landing on our neighboring planet Mars which is the fourth planet from the Sun while the Earth being third. In order to make this landing the engineers had to calculate Earths position related to Mars while the Sun being the reference point. It would be physically impossible to make a landing on Mars if we didn't know our (Earths) position in relation to Mars.

Orbit of Mars had to be intercepted and landing on Mars was done on a target within 4 miles wide from millions of miles away. One could argue that both can be stationary, but then again the facts on ground speak other wise as we know how the path to Mars was calculated and intercepted. I don't want to get technical, but details of this expedition are enough to eradicate all hypostasis about the Sun revolving around the earth. 

The orbit of objects is done according to the universal principal of gravitational force. The moon is orbiting the earth because of Earths gravitational field and not the other way around. If Sun can revolve around earth then following the same narrative one could also conclude that it's possible for earth to orbit the Moon which is totally absurd why?

According the Newton's Gravitational Law, all masses are surrounded by a gravitation field. The strength of this field depends on the Mass of the object. Since Earths mass is lesser then Suns, it would be literarily impossible for earth to hold the Sun in its orbit.

If you don't believe anything from what I have said, then know that there is also something called Man made orbit of earth formally known as satellites. The satellites around earth are following exactly same principals as earth is following around the Sun. This harmony is defined by someone and it can not be other then the Creator Him self. Yes, the earth is stationary in the sense that it can not leave its defined orbit, and its stationary for you because you don't know that its moving.

If you're sitting in a moving train, the train is stationary to you, while the relative movement is still there. I will post detailed information on this in the coming days InshAllah.

Check this video about the expedition to Mars.
http://marsrovers.jp...uise_navCap.mov

Saying that the Sun orbits Earth is the same as saying the earth is falling towards the apple and not the other way around.

Ya Ali

Tahir Riaz


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Posted 08 June 2006 - 01:50 AM (#18) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

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Lets go back to satellites as that's a man made orbit of earth and it's purely based on the discovered scientific facts and laws. The term geostationary satellite signifies a satellite which revolves in the same direction as the earth rotates (west to east). At an altitude of 35 000 kilometers directly over the equator one orbit takes 24 hours, the same length of time as the earth requires to rotate once on its own axis.

If earth was stationary in the literal sense, no movement what so ever, then it would be impossible to have non geostationary satellites as we do today. Most of our weather forecasts are done through these satellites.

Read more about

Simple Satellite Science


Tahir


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Posted 08 June 2006 - 02:32 AM (#19) User is offline   mynameisimran 

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(this reply is meant only to yanabi team)
Astagfirullah. Good to know what your believes are!

Question 1. What are your qualifications in the field of physics?

Question 2. What are your religious qualifications?

Question 3. Why is the Quran, and the Hadith's not used in this thread?

Question 4. What does your sheikh say?
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 02:55 AM (#20) User is offline   Tahir-Riaz 

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Originally posted by: Imran Ali
(this reply is meant only to yanabi team)Astagfirullah. Good to know what your believes are! Question 1. What are your qualifications in the field of physics?Question 2. What are your religious qualifications?Question 3. Why is the Quran, and the Hadith's not used in this thread?Question 4. What does your sheikh say?

Mr. Imran Ali, this is a highly academic discussion and I suggests you should stick to the topic. If the topic is beyond your mental approach then please don't constrain your self. I suggest that you keep your mental outbursts to your selves as my next response will reparse same kind of rhetoric as yours.

The answer to all your questions is the following:
Who are you to question us?


Tahir


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