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Waxing Crescent
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The other day I was haivng a discussion with one of my husband's cousins and his aparent problem with religion was that it sends every perosn who disagrees with us to hell and everyone we like to heaven. According to him some great human beings were not muslims and the idea of sending them to hell was beyond his understanding. I have only one point on this topic: That is not my job. Why? Because that is God's job. My job is to be a good 'human' which is the ultimate goal of Islam. So if I do not send every third person in this world to hell what does that make me?
                                                          Ghaus al azam bamane, be-sar o saman madad 
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Post #363825
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Full Moon
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Group: YaNabi Team
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Haven't you just answered your own question?
- Judgement is up to Allah,
- we work towards being good people,
- Allah showed US how to be good people through the ages via the prophets (peace be upon them all),
Why complicate matters?
Edited: 10.03.2010 22:52:37 by
Faraz Hassan
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Post #363833
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Waxing Gibbous
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razmer (10.03.2010) So if I do not send every third person in this world to hell what does that make me? Assalamu alaikum, I guess you answered that yourself as brother Faraz pointed out, a good human !! Don't worry about this, some people like the idea of playing 'god' and their brain fails to comprehend matters beyond that.
I had no knowledge of bowing (Ruku). What did I know about prostration? Was I in search of your footprints or was I prostrating in prayer..Strange is my life and my servitude
Wherever I found your footprints I made it my direction
Adhrikni Ya RasoolAllah (sallalahu alaihi wasalam)
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Post #363839
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First Quarter
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razmer (10.03.2010) The other day I was haivng a discussion with one of my husband's cousins and his aparent problem with religion was that it sends every perosn who disagrees with us to hell and everyone we like to heaven. According to him some great human beings were not muslims and the idea of sending them to hell was beyond his understanding. I have only one point on this topic: That is not my job. Why? Because that is God's job. My job is to be a good 'human' which is the ultimate goal of Islam. So if I do not send every third person in this world to hell what does that make me? salaam as you said yourself it's not your job, it's Allah's job. All we have to do is worry about getting oursevles into heaven really. but at the end of the day it is upto Allah of who He wants to send to heaven or hell, because only He truely knows us and knows ur sins and good deeds. According to one story, Muhammad (pbuh) is said to have informed a prostitute who had seen a thirsty dog hanging about a well and given it water to drink. Allah forgave her because of that good deed. And granted her Paradise. the above story shows that the smallest thing we may do can make the biggest difference and vice versa. So someone might be the most angelic and noble person throught their life but they may have committed a bad deed which seemed so insignificant to them however according to Allah it was something that angered Him so therefore that can determine a person's destination in the hereafter. We shouldn't just always look at the picture as a whole, its the small details that make the picture.
'O Allah! How can I ask you for any favours knowing how disobedient I am, but how can I not ask you for anything knowing how Generous You are?'
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Post #364009
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Waxing Gibbous
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salam i find this stance a bit odd and at odds with islam. n one hand we say that muslims are the chosen and cingled out personalities amongst humans as he has chosen islam above all other faiths. Thereore we are special and will go to heaven but on the other hand we seem to be suggesting that even though we are the chosen and special ones we are not guaranteed jannah? whats going on sajid
Dr AQ - Product of a well endowed classical education - fee paying of course !
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Post #364019
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First Quarter
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pg064 (12.03.2010) salam i find this stance a bit odd and at odds with islam. n one hand we say that muslims are the chosen and cingled out personalities amongst humans as he has chosen islam above all other faiths. Thereore we are special and will go to heaven but on the other hand we seem to be suggesting that even though we are the chosen and special ones we are not guaranteed jannah? whats going on sajid Brother Sajid, i think you're a bit confused, what i said in my above post i deem to be true, however you are right when you say that muslims are the chosen ones and singled out personalities amongst humans as He has chosen islam above all other faiths. but you have to remember, as Muslims, as long as we believe in 'There is no God, but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger' then we will all EVENTUALLY inshallah go to heaven. but that's where our deeds come to play in, if our sins outwieght our good deeds then we will go to hell to be PUNISHED for sometime (only Allah knows how long) but once we've served our time Allah will eventually forgive us and let us enter paradise. and this is just for the muslims. because if Allah said as long as you're muslim then you will enter paradise then people would take advantage of that by not trying to be the perfect muslim they can be! so we are guaranteed jannah but that will come at the right time of when we deserve it, it depends all on our good deeds. Once again, as mentioned before, it's Allah's job of who He sends to heaven or hell. And he never wrongs any soul. :)
'O Allah! How can I ask you for any favours knowing how disobedient I am, but how can I not ask you for anything knowing how Generous You are?'
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Post #364027
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Waxing Crescent
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Modest MuslimahNO offence intended to you but I am sure there are many Muslims who think the way you do with regards to Heaven and Hell. Where is our quest to seek the pleasure of Allah rather than his Heaven? Why are we so obsessed with the idea of a 'reward' if the motivation of all our actions is to get an award then it seems it is a fickle attempt at goodness. Glory be to Allah for only the best have understood him. Imam Ali says (which beautifully demonstrates this) ' My Lord, I did not worship you out of fear from Your Fire, nor out of desire for Your Paradise; but I found You worthy of worship, so I worshipped You' So we learn the best form of worship, obedience to Allah is done when one understands the magnificence of the Creator not necessarily out of fear of hell fire or desire for Paradise. And Razmer has asked a very good question something we all ponder over. We find Muslims but do we find good human beings? and sometimes when we find good human beings they are not Muslim. Allah has created all humans and the material of the human carries good and bad. Belief is something separate to this innate human quality. When someone is good it is actually Allahs' mercy which is displayed and the credit may not necessarily lie with the person. Not recognising the creator and his beloved is a grave injustice which Allah does not forgive. He has created the World he says so there is JUSTICE on earth.
If you can't believe in God the chances are your God is too small- J. B. Phillips
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Post #364031
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First Quarter
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Fatema the resplendent (12.03.2010) Modest Muslimah
NO offence intended to you but I am sure there are many Muslims who think the way you do with regards to Heaven and Hell.
Where is our quest to seek the pleasure of Allah rather than his Heaven? Why are we so obsessed with the idea of a 'reward' if the motivation of all our actions is to get an award then it seems it is a fickle attempt at goodness.
Glory be to Allah for only the best have understood him. Imam Ali says (which beautifully demonstrates this) ' My Lord, I did not worship you out of fear from Your Fire, nor out of desire for Your Paradise; but I found You worthy of worship, so I worshipped You'
So we learn the best form of worship, obedience to Allah is done when one understands the magnificence of the Creator not necessarily out of fear of hell fire or desire for Paradise.
And Razmer has asked a very good question something we all ponder over. We find Muslims but do we find good human beings? and sometimes when we find good human beings they are not Muslim. Allah has created all humans and the material of the human carries good and bad. Belief is something separate to this innate human quality. When someone is good it is actually Allahs' mercy which is displayed and the credit may not necessarily lie with the person. Not recognising the creator and his beloved is a grave injustice which Allah does not forgive. He has created the World he says so there is JUSTICE on earth.
Salaam sister,
no offence taken! i do completely agree with you and understand where you're coming from. however, i think you may have misunderstood what i was saying. you are 100% right that why do we focus on 'reward' rather than just genuinely pleasing Allah? but you have to remember at the end of the the day it comes down to intentions right? now if someone carries out a good deed (e.g. keeps a fast) then yes we keep it FOR THE SAKE of Allah, we do it for him but ANOTHER reason we do so is for our own benefit. we are humans, we're 'programmed' to commit sin and anything that will erase our sins is by doing good deeds. Therefore my point is, that yes we seek the pleasure of Allah, we obey Allah, and follow his commands, and why do we do that? so we do not earn his wrath and displeasure and THEN get thrown into the hellfire.
Anyway, i think at the end of the day, we are humans, and one of the human traits is selfishness. so we will do things that we feel will benefit us. And psychologically speaking, when a person is set out to carry a task, and if he/she is informed that they will receive a reward if completed then that will motivate them and make them work harder. same goes for this topic.
[hrGlory be to Allah for only the best have understood him. Imam Ali says (which beautifully demonstrates this) ' My Lord, I did not worship you out of fear from Your Fire, nor out of desire for Your Paradise; but I found You worthy of worship, so I worshipped You'
don't get me wrong, i do agree with the above quote, but as you said yourself 'only the best have understood Him' So therefore, we are nothing compared to such people like Imam Ali. As long as we're doing the right thing with the right intention then all's good inshallah. :)
'O Allah! How can I ask you for any favours knowing how disobedient I am, but how can I not ask you for anything knowing how Generous You are?'
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Post #364052
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Waxing Gibbous
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salamso yo are saying that i will get heaven just for saying the kalima. so whats the point of my namaaz when according to your deviated logic: the drunk muslim next door to me who knows nothing of islam will go to heaven simply on the basis of his professing the kalima and no good deeds? wheres the the insaaf in that? sajid
Dr AQ - Product of a well endowed classical education - fee paying of course !
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Post #364058
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First Quarter
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pg064 (12.03.2010) salam
so yo are saying that i will get heaven just for saying the kalima. so whats the point of my namaaz when according to your deviated logic:
the drunk muslim next door to me who knows nothing of islamwill go to heaven simply on the basis of his professing the kalima and no good deeds?
wheres the the insaaf in that?
sajid
Look why don't you go back and read my post properly....
i did not by any means say as long as anyone knows their kalimah will go STRAIGHT to heaven.
i said anyone who BELIEVES in the kalimah, regardless of the sins they commit will EVENTUALLY go to heaven. i'll repeat that again, 'EVENTUALLY GO TO HEAVEN'.
This means, so that drunk muslim next door who knows nothing about islam will get sent to hell, get punished for God knows how many years but eventually if Allah wills He will forgive him and let him enter paradise, why? because he did believe in Allah and the Messenger, that's where the guarantee of paradise for muslims comes in.......come on it's straightforward.....
(i) 'Abdullaah ibn Mas'oud (ra) said: "The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "I know the last of the people of Hell who will be brought forth from it, and the last of the people of Paradise to enter it. It is a man who will come out of Hell crawling on all fours." Allah will say to him, "Go and enter Paradise". So he will come to it and will suppose that it is full. He will go back and say, "My Rabb, I found it full". Allah (swt) will say, "Go and enter Paradise for there you have something like the world and ten times over [or you have something ten times better than the world]. He will says, "Are you making fun of me - or laughing at me - and You are the Sovereign of all?" I ['Abdullaah] saw the Messenger of Allah (saw) smiling so broadly that his back teeth were visible. He used to say, "That is the one who is lowest in status of the people of Paradise". [al-Bukhaari, 11/386, ar-Riqaaq, at-Tawheed Baab Kalaam ar-Rabb 'azza wa jall yawm al-qiyamah ma'a al-anbiyaa wa ghayrihim; and Muslim, with slight variation, no. 186, Baab aakhir Ahl an-Naar Khurujan; and at-Tirmidhi, no. 2598 in Safah Jahanam, Ch. 10]
'O Allah! How can I ask you for any favours knowing how disobedient I am, but how can I not ask you for anything knowing how Generous You are?'
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Post #364060
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