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 Posted 25.01.2004 01:51:42
Waxing Gibbous

Waxing Gibbous
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as salam 'alaikum brother Sajid,

Your words are so beautiful, I just can't over them.



Ya Abu Bakar...Ya 'Umar.....Ya 'Uthman....Ya 'Ali


as salam 'alaykom wa rehmatuAllahi wa barakatuHu
Post #3101
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 Posted 25.01.2004 02:07:51
Waxing Gibbous

Waxing Gibbous
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as salam 'alaikum brothers and sisters


This pertains to the unity of us sunnis that has lost something most beautiful that this site www.sunnipath.com ha brought to light here in this thread.
The thing we have lost is ADAB and good manners and the control of the tongue as I stated in my huge post above, please do read it.


One a Jew came to our Nabi saws and said " AS SAAM 'alaikum"

Hadrat 'Ayesha radiallahu 'anha became angry and replied    wa SAAM 'ALAIK  wa la'na etc

To this our Nabi 'alaihissalam told her that Allah does not like bad words or  your tongue to utter bad words, attacks, gheeba, insults of anyone

She said to our Nabi 'alaihissalam that the Jew had wished him death

He said did she not hear him say wa 'alaykum to him?

in the above hadith we see the wisdom hikmah of our Nabi 'alaihissalam. A jew wished him death, but he gave him an answer that did not show any of the things that Allah dislikes, an answer full of beauty. He did not curse back the jew, he did not insult him, he did not do nameema of gheeba of jews ever in his life, but told the truth about them, he did not even attack his enemies behind their backs but spoke of the ills that they do which they themselves knew very well, the truth!!!

We should be like our Nabi 'alaihissalam.



Ya Abu Bakar...Ya 'Umar.....Ya 'Uthman....Ya 'Ali


as salam 'alaykom wa rehmatuAllahi wa barakatuHu
Post #3102
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 Posted 25.01.2004 02:22:47
New Moon

New Moon
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Salaams to my brother Ali!

Your comments are reassuring and endearing! BUT we must act upon what we say, otherwise it is a futile act of VANITY!! Tazkiyyah is the only way forward, always has been and always will be! If we can train our NAFS's to become the beacons of Islaam, then undoubtedly, as History has proved time and time again, we will prevail over all Kuffaar, let the alone ''The Others''. Look at how the Sahaaba, Tabi-een and Taba-Tabi-een (May Allah SWT be pleased with them all) propagated, by being true ambassadors of the Deen of Islaam, as a result of which people converted/reverted to Islaam in droves--the Glorious Qur'aan is testament to this tradition and the magnificence of the Sahaaba RA. Yes, they were harsh with the enemies, both hidden and open, but never did they become intolerant of each other. Rather, they respected each other's opinions, views, verdicts, fatwas and ijtehaad. We need to go back and retrace our roots to those Aashiqs, instead of insisting that one group holds a monopoly over Sunnism.

I will again say, please be mindful of what you say about other Sunni Ulema!! If you do not agree with them, then fine, don't agree, this is your prerogative, but let us please not hurl vile abuse at other Sunni Ulema across the world!!

Brothers and sisters, pray that Allah SWT accept our sincere Dua's and make us live upto what we say!!

Ameen!!


Post #3105
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 Posted 25.01.2004 02:51:13
Waxing Gibbous

Waxing Gibbous
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as salam 'alaikum Brother Sajid Manzoor,

It is said that Imam Juwayni Imam al Haram radiallahu 'anhu among te greatest mujtahids of the Shafi'i madhab, our Imam, our heart, infact used to throw out any book he found on the Hanafi madhab, he did pass through a partisan period, you know even big 'ulama can make mistakes and this is true since no one is infalliable than the Prophets 'alaihimussalam.

So did many other Shafi'i 'ulama from my land Khurasan in Iran used to throw out any Hanafi books they found out of the window, but they were still a small minority and they were all going through the phase which Imam Ghazali radiallahu anhu went through, which then he corrected by going into khalwa for 10 years, I am sure Imam al Haramayn Imam al Juwayni al Khurasani radiallahu anhu did the same.

The point i am trying to make is that, there were big differences in fiqh between the Shafi'i 'ulama and the Hanafi 'ulama in iran but there this was only a test. In India and Pakistan, at the moment if this happens, they will slaughter eachother, do debates of immense hate and do takfir with eachother. This clearly shows they are not qualified. As brother Abdul Mustafa said, would Hadrat 'Ala Hadrat be happy with them? How many scholars are sunnis producing in the subcontinent?

We should respect the differences if they are on the faroo'ii level and not to fight among oursleves and become partisans. If there is someone with bad 'aqeedah then obviously we must point him out as Brother Hasnain Qadiri does but in no way we should use dirty insultive language in our conversations.

Brother Sajid when yu say we should respect the differences with other scholars, once again please state that this should be on a faroo'ii, fiqhi level. If it is related to 'aqeedah then we have to defend ourselves.

If we call our own sunni 'ulama as bad  'ulama we should state the points on which we are making this judgement. IF THE ISSUE is not related to 'aqeedah and is a faroo'ii or other fiqhi issue then we should accept the difference as fiqhi and respect it, for differences between scholars are a blessing. for example the method we use for tazkiyyah may be different between different scholars. If they become partisans based ont he method then what was the meaning of doing tazkiyyahtu Nafs in the first place?





Ya Abu Bakar...Ya 'Umar.....Ya 'Uthman....Ya 'Ali


as salam 'alaykom wa rehmatuAllahi wa barakatuHu
Post #3106
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 Posted 25.01.2004 02:53:02
Waxing Gibbous

Waxing Gibbous
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as salam 'alaikum Brother Sajid

Please can yu tell me which group yu are referring to that yu think is monopolysing sunnism? It seems as if yu are referring to some group.



Ya Abu Bakar...Ya 'Umar.....Ya 'Uthman....Ya 'Ali


as salam 'alaykom wa rehmatuAllahi wa barakatuHu
Post #3108
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 Posted 25.01.2004 03:15:13
New Moon

New Moon
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As-salaam alaukum!!

I commend your comments brother Ali, and am keeping my comments general as you stated in another post. In connection with 'monopolism', I am not referring to any group in particular, but rather I am lamenting at the general malaise that has hit a lot of Sunni groups that feel that only their clique of Ulema are active, rightly guided, worthy of praise and leadership. Let us put this to one side and let me make a proposal------Take one Alim-e-Deen from each Sunni group in the world and work towards creating a 'Sunni Supreme Council' (which could be regionalised into say UK, Europe, Americas, Africa, Midddle East, the Ind-Pak subcontinent, the Far East etc. etc.) which would make strategy, set goals, develop educational, spiritual, economic, social and political objectives and the means to achieve them. An awesome task indeed, but it could be the start of something BIG insha'allah!!

As individuals, we are ALL accountable for this---I most certainly include myself in this malaise!!

May Allah SWT give us taufeeq to be sincere in our intentions and may we develop some kind of Sunni Unity at least, which would surely be a panacea for the ills of the muslim world!

Khudaa Haafiz!!

Post #3112
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 Posted 25.01.2004 22:01:11
New Moon

New Moon
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Asalaam alaikum,

I just wanted to post this Q/A  from www.sunnipath.com answered by none other than Sheikh Gibril Haddadd. I understand from the previous post thath this is a scholar that alot of you really respect:

"...GF Haddad has some brill articles on their and some regarding Ala Hazrat RA..."
"...except for Shaykh GF Haddad's replies as he is a hardcore Sunni!..."
"...I mean we all know Sheikh Gibril Fouad Haddad is hard core sunni (barelwi)..."


No Difference between Barelwis and Deobandis 

Answered by Shaykh Gibril Haddad  







QUESTION: What exactly is the difference between the school of thought that follows Ala Hadrath Ahmed Rida Khan RA and those that follow the school of thought of Rashid Ahmed Gangohi against whom i understand Ala Hadrath had said that there is inherent kufr in the nature of thought expressed but did not issue a fatwa of Kufr, as Maulana Rashid Gangohi had passed on. (may Allah Ta'laa forgive me if i have made a mistake ) there is a lot of ikhtiflaaf in the Indian subcontinent on this issue and i do understand that it is extremely volatile - but, i would request you to kindly spare sometime and answer me





[Faraz Rabbani notes: I agree wholeheartedly with the content of Shaykh Gibril’s comments.]



ANSWER:
Wa `alaykum as-Salam:

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim:

There is no difference in the generalities of `Aqida and Fiqh between Barelwis and Deobandis. They are both Sunni Hanafis, Sufis, Ash`aris or Maturidis. One stands in need of the best each school has to offer, as indeed hold many of the living prestigious teachers known to both sides.



Among the best commentaries on Sahih Muslim and the Sunan of al-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud are works by the Deobandis. The Lives of the Sahaba by al-Kandihlawi is a masterpiece. I`la'al-Sunan and Aathaar al-Sunan are very valuable. As for Imam Ahmad Rida Khan and his works, whoever does not recognize their worth as one of the treasures of this Umma is a blasted nincompoop who should wear a dunce cap until he learns.

Both sides are strict Hanafis and mainstream Sufis. We do not endorse the mistakes that anyone might have made, such as uttering words rightly perceived to lack adab in matters of `Aqida or contesting the legality of celebrating Mawlid.

Nor do we endorse Takfir. Demonization of the other, saying they are munafiq is unacceptable. We leave extremism to Najd and its minions. Come together. Sayyid Muhammad `Alawi al-Maliki advised you to do so, Sayyid Yusuf al-Rifa`i advised you, Shaykh `Abd al-Hadi Kharsa advised you, Sayyid Ya`qubi, Dr. al-Nass, others... Do you think you stand for the honor of Allah and His Prophet more than such as these? Think again.

When the situation is such that there is mutual avoidance at mosques, gatherings, etc. then it becomes wajib for every true and sincere Deobandi should seek out his counterparts among Barelwis and for every true and sincere Barelwi to seek out his counterparts among Deobandis, pray together, learn from one another, give salam, and increase love. Disunity is sin. Or are you afraid you will lose reputation or funding? Shame.

Here is the resting-place of Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir Gilani and Imam Abu Hanifa bracing for another Mongoloid onslaught. Will you Sunnis still be debating and anathematizing one another because of who said what as the Hour rises? Stressing ikhtilaf and schism is from Shaytan. If this is what the general public chooses to follow, it is their loss even as they shout ALLAHU AKBAR and YA RASULALLAH from God's dawn to the wee hours. Salam.

Hajj Gibril
Shawwal 1423/December 2002
--
GF Haddad



Now where we go from here is up to you. You can either:
1) Misinterpret what Gibril Haddad says and say that he either doesn't know about deobandis or he is talking about a different group of deobands
2) Disown him and consider him as going 'outside of the fold'
3) Or you can do what he says; UNIFY

I really pray to allah(swt) that these 2 groups can come together instead of going against each other. Let sunnipath.com be an example to us all.

Wassalaam


Post #3128
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 Posted 25.01.2004 22:07:12
Waxing Gibbous

Waxing Gibbous
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as salam 'alaikum

GF Haddad wrote this article before he knew who deobandis were. Please refer to his other articles in which he refutes them.



Ya Abu Bakar...Ya 'Umar.....Ya 'Uthman....Ya 'Ali


as salam 'alaykom wa rehmatuAllahi wa barakatuHu
Post #3129
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 Posted 25.01.2004 22:08:38
Waxing Gibbous

Waxing Gibbous
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Salam 'alaikum

I see this guy above is trying to make fitnah here. He has no argument.



Ya Abu Bakar...Ya 'Umar.....Ya 'Uthman....Ya 'Ali


as salam 'alaykom wa rehmatuAllahi wa barakatuHu
Post #3130
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 Posted 25.01.2004 22:11:29
New Moon

New Moon
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Asalaam alaikum

How can he not know who deobandis are if he chose to answer a question about them? I'm sure a scholar as great as Shaykh Gibril Haddadd would research the subject matter first before trying to answer? I'm trying to bring you together not create fitnah just as Shaykh Haddad is trying.

Wassalaam

Post #3131
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