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Tahir Riaz — Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:28:58 GMT

Enough!

Tahir

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sak01 — Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:22:26 GMT

Ali Ahmed in a private message to me said:

"Please keep your ordering to yourself

Please keep your accepting to yourself

Please keep your thinking to yourself

Please keep your shoulding to yourself

Please dont forward my posts to Sidi Faraz again

Stop stabbing people behind in the backs

dont ever mail me again

to what deobandi site have yu posted your messages of unity with the barelwis?"

If you can not prove what you said then we can neither accept or deny it so the info you provided remains irrelevent.

AliAhmed you're such a cheerie chappy. Tally ho!!

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Zarb e Haidari — Thu, 05 Feb 2004 05:03:50 GMT

Aslamoalikum bro Sajid,

I agree with you 110% ... Masha Allah

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AliAhmed — Thu, 05 Feb 2004 05:02:50 GMT

brothers and sisters please refrain from using this language

"slitting sunni throats"

"shaytaan on a cruise"

please stop this behaviour and read all emails like brother Sadaqat Khan asked us.

PLEASE DO NOT JUMP TO ANY CONCLUSIONS

no SUNNI will ever SLIT THE THROAT of anyother SUNNI when they consider eachother brothers.

Sadaqat Khan and me are brothers, why is Sajid Manzoor coming here and giving a talk on slitting throats or even mentioning such a thing

those who make up stories like this are certainly the irony to us sunnis

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AliAhmed — Thu, 05 Feb 2004 04:56:12 GMT

no body is slitting no body's throat, please stop your slander and behave nice and kind to your sunni brothers.

Didn't yu see above that I stated to end all arguments and brother Sadaqat Khan agreed to the end of the argument. this is how we sunnis care for each other.

Seems like yu are another fitnah maker now here and want to start an argument somewhere else.

Please speak on the topic "sunnipath.com" and if yu some other topic to start then create a new topic or go to some other thread please.

www.sunnipath.com

sajid — Thu, 05 Feb 2004 00:27:02 GMT

Poor dear Sunni brothers, no wonder we're being bombed into oblivion!! When will we all grow up--just look at the posts here!! We (including myself) obviously have time for this tittle-tattle amongst ourselves. What good is this all achieving!!

Shaytaan must be on along cruise somewhere!! Who needs him when we are so busy slitting each others (Sunni) throats.

Come come gentlemen!! Best of order!! Let's just INDIVIDUALLY/COLLECTIVELY DO SOMETHING FOR SUNNI ISLAAM, FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!, NO MATTER HOW LITTLE OR INSIGNIFICANT.

I make a proposal to you all in the UK. Every Staunch Sunni under 30 years of age, in every area where there is a Masjid, must strive to have representation on that Masjid Committee, by hook or by crook, no matter how much our beloved elders may resist or disapprove!! Bless our elders, for they have prepared the foundations for us for which we should all be grateful. Striving does not mean being aggressive or antagonistic. This is a game of patience, diplomacy, encouragement and community Spirit and Unity between the elders and the youth of the community.

I just dont see another way forward, we must make use of the treasures we have, namely our Masaajid, otherwise we will and are losing our youth to ''the others''.

What d'ya say?!

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AliAhmed — Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:11:54 GMT

Brother Tahir yu did not make a mistake.

even referring to the name AliAhmed as a chimpanzee in a hypothetical situation is exactly like calling him a chimpanzee,

why not use some other name? What do I have to do in this argument?

please do not support insultive language dear brother

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AliAhmed — Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:06:57 GMT

Sadaqat Khan in a private message said to me:

I would just like to know what your intentions are. Please try to give a proper answer to at least one of the questions I asked you.

I replied:

why not ask yourself that are your questions appropriate?

if this approriate talking

"what if I call AliAhmed a chimpanzee"

Why take my name, why single out me?

rest assure

my intentions are good, dont worry about me

just make du'a

ask the questions are yours good too, if they are congratulations

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AliAhmed — Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:02:49 GMT

Sadaqat Khan, it seems yu do not understand the meaning of "I am telling the truth"

as I recall, I said this after saying I am a Muslim.

as i recall yu said "what if I said Ali Ahmed is a talking chimpanzee", now if yu do not find anything wrong in this type of talking, i dont know what to say then, why not say "what if I said a so and so person is a talking chimpanzee"

respect of Muslims is essential

Please brothers and sisters, one must not do nameema.

One must not use bad analogies. One must not insult another person or even say a thing that might make the other person feel that way.
Is arguing good? Is using a chimp as an example to develop a hypothetical situation (so said) good? Why not just ask the question directly?What is the shame in that?

If Sadaqat Khan wants to argue, it is to his own peril.

Argument is fitnah and hate sowing.

This is my last post to this person called Sadaqat Khan

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Tahir Riaz — Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:43:51 GMT

Sorry, You are right i made an error here.

Tahir

www.sunnipath.com

sak01 — Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:08:59 GMT

Assalaam alaikum,

I didn't call him anything, I merely said that IF I had claimed that he was a talking chimp would I also be exempt from proving it because I am a muslim? Remember that I am using the word IF, to represent a hypeothetical situation so could you please answer the questoin AliAhmed bearing in mind tha this is your logic which you used in the post earlier.

Brothers you must try to read every post carefully to avoid any confusion before you answer it.

Wassalaam

www.sunnipath.com

Tahir Riaz — Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:54:17 GMT

Sadaquat Khan if you dont have anything construtive to convey, please refrain from calling other users for names!

Thanks

Tahir

www.sunnipath.com

AliAhmed — Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:57:22 GMT

I am not a chimpanzee, but a human telling the truth, if yu dont believe me, dont, go on with your life, please

it is haraam for a muslim to "INSULT" another Muslim.

You insulted my by calling me "********************" and I dont know why

But i forgive yu for that, becuase yu are a Muslim and I am a human and i love Allah and His Habeeb 'alaihissalam

www.sunnipath.com

sak01 — Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:43:21 GMT

Assalaam alaikum

AliAhmed

Interesting logic.

I am also a muslim. If I told everyone that AliAhmed is really a talking *****************, would I also be exempt from proving it?

Wassalaam

www.sunnipath.com

AliAhmed — Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:56:40 GMT

as salam 'alaikum

I am a Muslim, I am telling the truth. end of story

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sak01 — Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:22:01 GMT

Assalaam alaikum

AliAhmed

Could you post some supporting evidence for the allegations you are making.

Thanks a bunch old boy!

Wassalaam

www.sunnipath.com

AliAhmed — Sat, 31 Jan 2004 02:03:27 GMT

Rabbani labels the sufis of India and Pakistan as "barelvi" but he says they are still under the banner of sunni islam, such hypocrisy!!

Brother KM he did send me replies, many replies, as I stated above in my post. You did not offend me in any way possible.

jazakallah khairan

www.sunnipath.com

MK — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:28:09 GMT

Quote
Originally posted by: Ali Ahmed Sistani
KM why are u asking proof for that? I am telling yu, it is the truth. How do yu know i got responses from Faraz Rabbani? I dont want to do gheeba of anybody, however.

Salaams Brother Ahmed

Sorry, i didn't mean to doubt you. I am more after the details of what happened as your message was as follows:
".....
as salam 'alaikum
Some backstabber from the site www.sunnipath.com">http://www.sunnipath.com">www.sunnipath.com forwarded my posts to Faraz Rabbani.
Faraz Rabbani calls the barelwis a separate group from his small bunch in Jordan. He says the same thing for others. He has now divided all sunnis into groups. He says the Sudanese and the Malaysians are separate from the so called sunnis he labels has barelwis.
What a lie!
What if an arab scholar from his tiny group in jordan goes to india and settles there and have children there, will he label them as "barelvi" or "deobandi"
This is all defaming and breaking apart muslims
...."

I thought by you saying someone sent your posts you meant you got responses too. My mistake.
Sorry if i offended you.

Sunnis can never be categorised according to regions, they can only ever by differentiated by Aqaid. This is why the Sunnis of Bareilly (or those with love for Ala Hazrat (RA) should stop calling themselves barelvi.

Wa'salaams
KM

www.sunnipath.com

AliAhmed — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:01:15 GMT

to all visitors of sunnipath.com of Faraz Rabbani

Please do not call him a sidi, how can a student of Sheikh Nuh Mock people?

Rabbani thinks of the people who he labels as "barelwis", as ridiculous bunch of troublemakers.

He ridicules the sunnis who he labels as "barelvi"

He says his tiny bunch down there in Jordan is gold, and that these two groups in India and Pakistan are two fighting ridiculous bunch of people.

He says let the deobandis post on his biased site sunnipath.com articles full of nothing but so called deobandism, becuase a "barelvi" does it, he will do likewise.

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AliAhmed — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:51:01 GMT

KM why are u asking proof for that?

I am telling yu, it is the truth. How do yu know i got responses from Faraz Rabbani?

I dont want to do gheeba of anybody, however.

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MK — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:56:59 GMT

Well said Brother Abdul
It is indeed now time for action (even if it is a reaction!) rather than endless debating. Books indeed will ive on this temporary world far longer than any individual will. There is a massive need for the books of the Ulema-e-Haq to be translated and preserved for the currenct generation and generations to come.
KM

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MK — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:50:20 GMT

Quote
Originally posted by: Ali Ahmed Sistani
as salam 'alaikum KM I dont know which statements yu mean dear jazkallah khairan

Salaams Brother Ahmed
I was referring to your mail about the backstabber and sunnipath and the responses you got from Sidi Faraz.
Wa'salaams
KM

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naqshbandijamaati — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:06:03 GMT

assalamu alaykum!

The reason is simple: deobandits have made a lot of effort to forge links with Arab ulama and spread their works whereas most of our ulama/pirs spend their time collecting funds for their madrassahs/khanaqahs/dargahs/palaces and eating biryani and halwah! We can't go on blaming the deobandis for our own failings. Look, they (deobandits) are snakes and you can't expect anything better from a snake so why spend all our time blaming them?! We do have good works too--better than the deobandis have--lets get them published in Arabic in the arab lands and make an extra effort to forge links with arab sunnis and then see how the tide changes...insha Allah! ala hazrat has more than 100 books in pure arabic. if we published them and sent out copies to all the arab madrassahs we would kill the deobandit influence. instead ala hazrat's gems are gathering dust in bareilly sharif whilst we swear at each others pirs over little subjects like whether a sayyidzaadi can marry a non sayyid!! shame on us so-called sunnis!

brothers please lets stop the blame game and GET WORKING! no one else will do it. look shaykh gf haddad is translating al dawlah al makkiyah of ala hazrat from arabic...he's not even from indo=pak! imagine the impact one book will have! THEN multiply that for each book of ours we get translated!! also i heard a rumour that sahibzada pir abu'l hasanaat shah son of pir karam shah al azhari rahmatullah alayhi is forging a formal exchange programme with shaykh habib umar al jifri so that students from bhera sharif will go to yemen for the last part of their course. hope its true insha Allah...

thats the sort of work that will stop the deobandis spreading ....

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AliAhmed — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:35:37 GMT

no wonder dear Jilani

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Qadri Jilani — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:00:08 GMT

yes its because the deobandits are sly, sneaky and full of deception!

hey instead of building up links with Arab Sunni Ulema and giving them receptions at deoband they should be putting similar fatwas on the arab Ulema that practice the same things as 'barelwis'. (i.e. bidat, shirk, bidat, shirk).

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AliAhmed — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:43:16 GMT

as salam 'alaikum

The so called "deobandis" are so famous in the Arab world it is quite overwhelming.

In syria if yu mention who are the Hanafi scholars of India? They will take names as "Ilyas Kandhalvi"
"Rashif Gangohi" 'Ashraf 'Ali Thanvi"

One should know that Gangoh and Thana and Khandhal are all in and right next to a small region in UP north of Delhi called Saharanpour.

In Egypt if yu mention who are the scholars of Hind? They will say "Abul 'Alaa Maududi" "Syed Abul Hasan Nadawi".

Hanafi scholars like Sheikh Abu Fatah Abu Ghudda from Syria (a direct descendent of Hadrat Khaled bin Waleed radiallahu anh" priased Anwar Shah Kashmiri as the revivor of the modern age and also others before him.

Imam Zahid al Kawthari another Turko Syrian also praised the so called deobandi scholars.
Both of them visited deoband and other institutions of theirs.

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AliAhmed — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:35:21 GMT

as salam 'alaikum KM

I dont know which statements yu mean dear

jazkallah khairan

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Qadri Jilani — Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:34:20 GMT

Certain Arab / Western Sunni Ulema have perhaps called deobandits sunnis but I must stress these are people who only have access to a limited number of their works.. some books you read of deos would make you think they are pure sunni sufi but when you read all of them and get the full picture you realise they are working for ibn thaymiyyah and ismael dhelvi.

So I dont really blame arab Ulema as they just seem them as Hanafis.. and for them ghair muqalids (i.e. those who dont follow a madhab) are wahabis. so its a false impression.

Therefore you should judge them by those Ulema who know them best and have read all thier writings and also live next door to them (by sharing cultural and being around them gives you a much depeer insight).
The Ulema I mean are the Ahl-e-Sunnat from the sub-continent.

Same is for Tahir-ul-Qadri - find any person or sunni organisation who understands his language, says good or reccomends tahir-ul-qadri?.. refer to the old thread.

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MK — Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:47:31 GMT

Brother Ahmed, Salaams
I find your statements very disturbing and very much against the current postings of Ahle-Sunnah unity. Please provide some proof/details of what you say.
Wa'salaams
KM

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sak01 — Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:52:39 GMT

Asalaam alaikum

Regarding Sheikh Nuh. Do you know when he will next be in town or how I might be able to find out more info regarding his visits? And also do you know any websites where I might find some of his audio lectures? at the moment I know of www.masud.co.uk and his own website but the former hasn't been updated for a while and I can't seem to get access to the latter.

Wassalaam

www.sunnipath.com

sak01 — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:25:30 GMT

Asalaam alaikum

It seems from your post that you thought I wanted you to remove Sheikh Gibril Haddad from ahl-e-sunnah. Thats why I reposted to clarify my position to you.

Regarding Sheikh Nuh. Do you know when he will next be in town or how I might be able to find out more info regarding his visits? And also do you know any websites where I might find some of his audio lectures? at the moment I know of www.masud.co.uk and his own website but the former hasn't been updated for a while and I can't seem to get access to the latter.

Jazakallah khair

Wassalaam

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AliAhmed — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:25:16 GMT

The above is nothing but senseless repitition

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sak01 — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:51:01 GMT

Asalaam alaikum

If Sheikh Gibril Haddadd tells us to unite and Sheikh Farraz Rabbani (a student of Sheikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller) tells us to unite I think we should unite but as I said before, where we go from here is up to you. You can either:
1) Misinterpret that what they mean is different from what they say
2) Disown them
3) Or unify as they tell you to

I don't wish you to choose option 1 or 2. I want you to choose option 3 because someone that you respect so much is telling you to unite. I am no scholar and no where near it but Sheikh Gibril Haddadd is a brilliant barelvi scholar and thats who I ask you to follow.

Off topic; I think your very lucky to know Sheikh Nuh, Brother Ali Ahmed. Do you know when he will next be in the UK as it is very difficult to find out when he comes until the last minute.

Wassalaam

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AliAhmed — Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:07:02 GMT

By the above mentioned sciences i obviously mean Hadith, Sarf, Nahw, Balagha, tajweed, Qir'at, Tafseer and other literal ones like them but obviously not tasawwuf, nor 'aqeeda, nor kalaam, nor fiqh to a large extent

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AliAhmed — Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:50:21 GMT

in terms of islamic sciences of knowledge our teachers can be from deoband.

Ibn Kathir is our Sunni Imam but his teacher is Ibn Taymiyyah a person rejected out of ahlusunnah by the majority.

Ibn al Qayyim his other student has also been rejected

So Imam ABu Ghudda praised Anwar Shah Kashmiri as a Muhaddith only.

And the issue of sunni/deobandi is alien to 99% of scholars outside the sub continent
so be ware

www.sunnipath.com

AliAhmed — Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:47:40 GMT

I just told yu GF Haddad has written articles against them
If yu have not come accross them then why do come here and speak on something yu didnt know about in the beginning

Imam Zahid al Kawthari and Sheikh Alawi al Maliki also called deobandis sunnis, so do yu want us to remove them from ahlusunnah?

Imam Buti has called deobandis sunnis

Imam Abu Ghudda rahimullah called the deobandi scholar Anwar Shah Kashmiri a great Jihadi and a Muhaddith, now do yu want us to refute him?

SO if GF HADDAD says Deobandis are sunnis WHY do yu say if we then want to refute him?
Why does such a thing even come to you mind.

If this is not fitnah what is it?

ibn Taymiyyah is a Muhaddith and a sufi.
He wrote 6 books on tasawwuf

But then he changed into a person who says "YA RASULULLAH IS SHIRK"

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sak01 — Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:42:56 GMT

I meant that up till now after looking at Gibril haddad's articles on deobandis I see no evidence to back up what you say. I will, however, do some more research and I ask others to do the same.

Relax buddy. I'm not trying to insult you in any way.

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AliAhmed — Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:38:00 GMT

the evidence is there, but yu are blind to see it. what evidence did i state? tell me'
Did I give any evidence in the first place?

Please dont come here to start the same old arguments. We are talking of unity among sunnis are yu blind yu cannot see that?
We are NOT TALKING OF UNITY WITH DEOBANDIS, there is no UNITY WITH WAHABIS.

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sak01 — Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:35:09 GMT

I will ask him inshallah and find out more, but up till now I see absolutely no evidence for what your saying. I ask others to also search for the truth.

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AliAhmed — Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:31:37 GMT

The cyber Mufti called Desai calls 80% of Muslims in the sub continent as bid'atis and not sunnis?

Sadaqat Khan why dont yu see that?

Why dont u ask Desai if he has taken his fatwaa of kufr on all sunnis (barelwis 80% of sunnis in pakistan and india) back?
It is safe to say that the deobandi community is the one on bid'aa and dhalala but we WONT DO TAKFEER OF THEM, for they are still muslims
they can call us non muslims